GUILTY NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #4

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I'm a Trump supporter who disagrees with the way this trial was run and therefore disagree with the juries verdict. JMO.
Can you be a little more specific? What exactly do you disagree with "the way this trial was run"? And are you faulting the jury when you say you "disagree with the jury's verdict?" as in you think they should have acquitted him? TIA
 
I agree that not all Trump supporters are violent. However, I struggle to understand why so many, as recently as the day Trump was convicted, continue to say if he shot someone on 5th Ave they'd still vote for him. I truly do not understand that mind set. We're talking about killing someone, in front of other people, and they'd still vote for him. That's mind boggling to me.

I always try to put it in perspective and imagine a scenario where my daughter brought home her new boyfriend who was a profane, boastful, disrespectful individual who made fun of people with physical infirmities, talked about stiffing trades he dealt with and got away with it and had a string of marriages where each subsequent wife was just a replacement who ultimately was cheated on. I don't think it would matter to me if he was a wizard at finance. He'd be a seriously flawed individual and no amount of massaging information to make him more palatable to me would work.
I don’t know what people are saying on social media, assuming that’s what you’re talking about in the first paragraph. I am not a social media person but have a few accounts for sleuthing purposes and absolutely nothing political. It’s way too much noise for me. I learned about Qanon from Websleuths. LOL This is my “political” social media.

I don’t support violence or any talk of violence. Any body that’s violent deserves their punishment. imo

I don’t plan on marrying the guy and we have two choices at this point in time. imo
 
Can you be a little more specific? What exactly do you disagree with "the way this trial was run"? And are you faulting the jury when you say you "disagree with the jury's verdict?" as in you think they should have acquitted him? TIA
I already have.

Read my posts #42, #81, #132 and #220. I'm not faulting the jury in these posts. JMO.
 
I’ve always thought this case was political because of the timing of it, among other things. Part of Alvin Bragg’s campaign included going after Trump. imo

The article linked below sums up a lot for me that I have difficulty putting into words. Here’s just a snippet -

“‘No man is above the law.’ It’s become cliché, but it’s an important point, and it’s worth pausing to reflect on the importance of this core principle,” concluded Honig. “But it’s also meaningless pablum if we unquestioningly tolerate (or worse, celebrate) deviations from ordinary process and principle to get there. The jury’s word is indeed sacrosanct, as I learned long ago. But it can’t fix everything that preceded it. Here, prosecutors got their man, for now at least — but they also contorted the law in an unprecedented manner in their quest to snare their prey.

Here's my problem with that editorial. If I turned in such a thing in any college freshman course, I'd get, at most, a C. It's an incomplete argument. How is it a contortion of the law? What exactly did the court do wrong? How is Bragg campaigning on this any different than any prosecutor campaigning on various crimes or any politician campaigning on exposing another? These are the questions that none of Trump's apologists, including Honig in this editorial, seem to be able to answer without a whatbaoutism. MOO
 
I don’t know what people are saying on social media, assuming that’s what you’re talking about in the first paragraph. I am not a social media person but have a few accounts for sleuthing purposes and absolutely nothing political. It’s way too much noise for me. I learned about Qanon from Websleuths. LOL This is my “political” social media.

I don’t support violence or any talk of violence. Any body that’s violent deserves their punishment. imo

I don’t plan on marrying the guy and we have two choices at this point in time. imo

Yes, two choices. One a felon and one not. My values align way more with the non-felon. It's really a sad day for America that a prominent political party has no one to run except a felon and that's partly because said felon and his goons have lied and threatened and intimidated anyone in their path. MOO.
 
Here's my problem with that editorial. If I turned in such a thing in any college freshman course, I'd get, at most, a C. It's an incomplete argument. How is it a contortion of the law? What exactly did the court do wrong? How is Bragg campaigning on this any different than any prosecutor campaigning on various crimes or any politician campaigning on exposing another? These are the questions that none of Trump's apologists, including Honig in this editorial, seem to be able to answer without a whatbaoutism. MOO
We don’t need to agree. I wouldn’t call Honig a Trump apologist. I looked for a source that wasn’t conservative that could sum up my thoughts.
 
I already have.

Read my posts #42, #81, #132 and #220. I'm not faulting the jury in these posts. JMO.

No worries, I'll do the lifting:
Since it looks like it violates the Sixth Amendment's right to be informed of your crimes or accusations it will most likely be grounds for an appeal.



Why is violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act listed if this is a New York State case? JMO.


I agree.



And this is one of the issues that will be brought up on appeal. The judge instructed the jury that they didn't have to be unanimous when deciding which of these three crimes where violated.

That's a violation of the Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendments.




Thanks for the link. The part were Honig faults Bragg for "Hiding the ball on the underlying felony crime used to resurrect expired misdemeanors." is going to be part of any appeal. Like I've stated in previous posts up thread.

JMO.
 
Thanks for the info. I don’t care how short or long his sentence is…I just want him to go to prison. Reality show stars, the Chrisley’s and the Guidice’s were sentenced to prison for financial crimes. Trump is a former reality star and former president. He deserves to spend some time behind bars.
I think he still has THREE more criminal trials coming up so even if he doesn't serve time for this felony, there's much more to come! So much for Felon Trump being unfairly picked on when there's an election coming up. Especially when the one who does everything in his power to keep delaying all of his criminal trials in the first place anyway. He just wasn't able to delay this one until after the election. I'm stunned that anyone backs up Felon Trump or what today's Republican Party has become.

Of course Fox Entertainment Channel covered up the 7 BILLION dollars they had to pay for their ongoing, orchestrated deliberate series of lies re the 2020 election. That's huge and should tell anyone who still doesn't get it that Fox is a fascist propaganda station.

But the typical response seems to be an immediate "Whatabout..." It seems they've been indoctrinated to not listen or look anything up but simply immediately dismiss and argue... NO MATTER WHAT. It actually seems like cult indoctrination tactics to me. I do not recall that being such a widespread response from others or before the 2016 election. No one can be reached with the truth if they won't ever listen to anything else.

Anyone who is in doubt could look up something like "the rise of fascism in the US" for more information on the overall pattern that's really going on here. It is truly terrifying. MOO
 
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I think he still has THREE more criminal trials coming up so even if he doesn't serve time for this felony, there's much more to come!
I pray he does. I worry the other three will never happen, so I want justice for this jury verdict. But I will be praying the other three are going to happen. I also worry if he is re-elected, he will find a way to make the other charges go away.
 

MAGA faithful call for riots and lynchings after Trump’s guilty verdict​


Hardcore followers of Donald Trump are calling for riots, insurrection, and assassination after he was criminally convicted of falsifying business records on Thursday.

Republican politicians widely refused to accept the verdict from the Manhattan trial, decrying the process as "rigged", "corrupt", "ridiculous", and "bulls***".

But in messages seen by The Independent, and others reported by Reuters, Trump loyalists on right-wing social networks went much further.

"Find the jurors. All of them. Take no prisoners," wrote one user on a Trump-focused message board.

"Just give them the rope," said another, in an explicit reference to lynching. "The time for talking has long gone. Let them swing outside the courthouse."

Some posts used coded language, such as one which urged "short drops" – that is, execution by hanging – for the people responsible for Trump's trial.

Another user replied with "short walks and long drops", plus a helicopter emoji – an apparent reference to "death flights" such as those used by right-wing dictators in Argentina and Chile to dispose of dissidents.
 
I already have.

Read my posts #42, #81, #132 and #220. I'm not faulting the jury in these posts. JMO.

I did go back to read those, but they state that your issue was with the jury instructions, not the trial? But in your other post, you said your issue was with how the trial was run, so that's what I'm curious about.

As for jury instructions, I'm obviously not a Constitutional scholar, but my read is that the jury unanimity requirement applies to the criminal act itself. If the charge is escalated because of the mechanistic or aggravating factors, but if those factors are not independent charged criminal acts and/or are not independent charged criminal acts that rise to the level of the felony charged, I don't believe they have to be unanimous. MOO

 

MAGA faithful call for riots and lynchings after Trump’s guilty verdict​


Hardcore followers of Donald Trump are calling for riots, insurrection, and assassination after he was criminally convicted of falsifying business records on Thursday.

Republican politicians widely refused to accept the verdict from the Manhattan trial, decrying the process as "rigged", "corrupt", "ridiculous", and "bulls***".

But in messages seen by The Independent, and others reported by Reuters, Trump loyalists on right-wing social networks went much further.

"Find the jurors. All of them. Take no prisoners," wrote one user on a Trump-focused message board.

"Just give them the rope," said another, in an explicit reference to lynching. "The time for talking has long gone. Let them swing outside the courthouse."

Some posts used coded language, such as one which urged "short drops" – that is, execution by hanging – for the people responsible for Trump's trial.

Another user replied with "short walks and long drops", plus a helicopter emoji – an apparent reference to "death flights" such as those used by right-wing dictators in Argentina and Chile to dispose of dissidents.
Banana republic indeed. Shameful.
 
I did go back to read those, but they state that your issue was with the jury instructions, not the trial? But in your other post, you said your issue was with how the trial was run, so that's what I'm curious about.

As for jury instructions, I'm obviously not a Constitutional scholar, but my read is that the jury unanimity requirement applies to the criminal act itself. If the charge is escalated because of the mechanistic or aggravating factors, but if those factors are not independent charged criminal acts and/or are not independent charged criminal acts that rise to the level of the felony charged, I don't believe they have to be unanimous. MOO

<modsnip>

You don't have to agree with me. You're entitled to your own opinion. JMO.
 
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We don’t need to agree. I wouldn’t call Honig a Trump apologist. I looked for a source that wasn’t conservative that could sum up my thoughts.

In this case, I do think Honig is a Trump apologist. MOO. However, I don't know his background. How do you know he isn't a conservative? I couldn't find anything that talks of his political affiliations on my quick search.
 

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