MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

[IDK]

Hearing today and next court update will be in late May:


“Attorneys involved in the case against a Massachusetts mother accused of killing her three children last year say they are working through a mountain of evidence.

Lindsay Clancy, of Duxbury, is facing three counts each of murder and strangulation in the January 2023 deaths of her 5-year-old daughter Cora, 3-year-old son Dawson and 7-month-old son Callan”

Attorneys wading through 'extensive' evidence in Lindsay Clancy case

The Duxbury, Massachusetts, mother is accused of killing her three children last year.

www.wcvb.com

 

[arielilane]

The father of the three Duxbury children allegedly killed by their mother last year will take their memory across the Boston Marathon finish line Monday as part of his mission to help kids in need.


If interested, more at link...

Father of slain Clancy children honoring memory by running Boston Marathon for Children’s Hospital

Patrick Clancy will be legging out the 26.2 miles of hilly terrain on behalf of Boston Children’s Hospital’s Miles for Miracles team, raising money to help sick children and honoring the memory of his kids who “couldn’t have made their dad prouder.”

www.boston25news.com

April 11, 2024 at 10:48 pm EDT

 

[IDK]

Surprised to read about the DNA testing-/ not sure why that is needed?


“Prosecutors and the lawyer for Lindsay Clancy, who is charged with killing her three young children in 2023, were in Brockton Superior Court on Tuesday for a brief status update on the case.

Prosecutors said a cheek swap of Clancy's mouth has been sent out for DNA testing. They estimated the wait time for results could be from three to six months.”

“Clancy's lawyer, Kevin Reddingston continues to review a "voluminous," as prosecutors described it, amount of materials in the case.

Clancy is being held without bail at Tewksbury Hospital. She has waived her appearance at the hearings since her September 2023 indictment. She is likely to continue doing so, as she suffered debilitating nerve damage the night of her children's deaths, Jan. 24, 2023.

The next court date is 9 a.m. on Friday, July 26.”

DNA sample discussed at Lindsay's Clancy latest court date

The hearing comes two months after Clancy's lawyer said he needed time to review a mountain of materials in the case.

www.metrowestdailynews.com

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Surprised to read about the DNA testing-/ not sure why that is needed?


“Prosecutors and the lawyer for Lindsay Clancy, who is charged with killing her three young children in 2023, were in Brockton Superior Court on Tuesday for a brief status update on the case.

Prosecutors said a cheek swap of Clancy's mouth has been sent out for DNA testing. They estimated the wait time for results could be from three to six months.”

“Clancy's lawyer, Kevin Reddingston continues to review a "voluminous," as prosecutors described it, amount of materials in the case.

Clancy is being held without bail at Tewksbury Hospital. She has waived her appearance at the hearings since her September 2023 indictment. She is likely to continue doing so, as she suffered debilitating nerve damage the night of her children's deaths, Jan. 24, 2023.

The next court date is 9 a.m. on Friday, July 26.”

DNA sample discussed at Lindsay's Clancy latest court date

The hearing comes two months after Clancy's lawyer said he needed time to review a mountain of materials in the case.

www.metrowestdailynews.com

RBBMFF
Maybe they are checking for specific gene mutations that indicate an abnormal reaction to certain medications.
I know that sounds completely sci-fi, but it's a thing. (I found out that I do not react to Tramadol. I had been rx several times after surgeries, and I always complained it did nothing. It turns out some gene mutation causes specific receptors to not function correctly, so Tramadol does nothing).
Maybe the defense has said she has an abnormal reaction to medications, and so it is being checked?
Just an idea.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

RBBMFF
Maybe they are checking for specific gene mutations that indicate an abnormal reaction to certain medications.
I know that sounds completely sci-fi, but it's a thing. (I found out that I do not react to Tramadol. I had been rx several times after surgeries, and I always complained it did nothing. It turns out some gene mutation causes specific receptors to not function correctly, so Tramadol does nothing).
Maybe the defense has said she has an abnormal reaction to medications, and so it is being checked?
Just an idea.

I doubt it. There is no test that I am aware of that will use DNA to determine whether or not you're at higher risk of homicidal violence. All those tests allegedly do is tell you how you metabolize the drug and whether or not it should be avoided because it's ineffective for you or because your body doesn't get rid of it quickly. I suppose someone could say if she metabolizes the drug slowly, she's at more risk of side effects, but it would be a stretch, mainly because of inconsistent studies leading to most of those tests being widely debunked.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I doubt it. There is no test that I am aware of that will use DNA to determine whether or not you're at higher risk of homicidal violence. All those tests allegedly do is tell you how you metabolize the drug and whether or not it should be avoided because it's ineffective for you or because your body doesn't get rid of it quickly. I suppose someone could say if she metabolizes the drug slowly, she's at more risk of side effects, but it would be a stretch, mainly because of inconsistent studies leading to most of those tests being widely debunked.

If a drug prescribed to a person was not working for them, due to the way their body metabolized, could that not lead to their original medical or psychiatric condition continuing on, unchecked? The symptoms they were presenting initially would continue - and perhaps worsen - as they were basically left untreated, since the meds weren’t working for them.

Personally, I think the DNA test is procedural for court, to compare with the exercise bands and definitively rule out any possibility that someone else killed the children. But how DNA testing relates to medications is an interesting topic.

jmo

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree with @steeltowngirl, IMO the reason for the DNA test is so that later on at trial or on appeal, defense can't say "an intruder could have done this and now we will always have doubt because unfortunately it was never conclusively shown that her DNA and only her DNA matched what was on the bands" etc.

 

[Megnut]

My mind went to confirmation maternity/paternity. Why they'd need that, I have no idea. Just a thought.

Such a sad story.

Jmo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If a drug prescribed to a person was not working for them, due to the way their body metabolized, could that not lead to their original medical or psychiatric condition continuing on, unchecked? The symptoms they were presenting initially would continue - and perhaps worsen - as they were basically left untreated, since the meds weren’t working for them.

SBMFF. Sure, but for what purpose in this case? She wasn't homicidal prior to the actual crime. Even if they were able to say she was on the wrong medication, what would that get her that isn't already clear? Those tests have been debunked and the FDA actually issued a statement a few years ago saying they shouldn't be used to determine treatment. So the idea that they'd be presented as evidence on either side seems futile to me. JMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

SBMFF. Sure, but for what purpose in this case? She wasn't homicidal prior to the actual crime. Even if they were able to say she was on the wrong medication, what would that get her that isn't already clear? Those tests have been debunked and the FDA actually issued a statement a few years ago saying they shouldn't be used to determine treatment. So the idea that they'd be presented as evidence on either side seems futile to me. JMO.

Well, you snipped out my answer - I think taking the DNA test is protocol in a homicide case.

I remain (separately) interested in learning how defense will work to demonstrate that she had PPP. They may point to her meds not working correctly as one reason.

jmo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Well, you snipped out my answer - I think taking the DNA test is protocol in a homicide case.

I remain (separately) interested in learning how defense will work to demonstrate that she had PPP. They may point to her meds not working correctly as one reason.

jmo

I only snipped it so I could respond to genetic testing for meds. I don't know what to think about the other part, so I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. You could be right.

But in terms of the meds, they don't need to prove she had PPP. That diagnosis was likely already given by the many doctors she saw just prior to the crime. Meds take time to work.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I only snipped it so I could respond to genetic testing for meds. I don't know what to think about the other part, so I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. You could be right.

But in terms of the meds, they don't need to prove she had PPP. That diagnosis was likely already given by the many doctors she saw just prior to the crime. Meds take time to work.

We’re good.

I had thought the entire homicide case was predicated on LC not having been diagnosed with PPP, or even PPD. Prosecutors described her actions the day of the killings as deliberate and premeditated.

Dec. 20, 2022 Clancy is evaluated at the Women & Infants Hospital Center for Women’s Behavioral Health in Providence. Psychiatrists there tell her she does not have postpartum depression, as she has no symptoms of postpartum depression, according to Sprague.

Lindsay Clancy timeline: What court records, attorney statements reveal about the Duxbury mother’s mental health

Details from police, prosecutors, and Clancy's attorney help tell the story of the Duxbury mother's mental health. Read more on Boston.com.

www.boston.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

We’re good.

I had thought the entire homicide case was predicated on LC not having been diagnosed with PPP, or even PPD. Prosecutors described her actions the day of the killings as deliberate and premeditated.

Dec. 20, 2022 Clancy is evaluated at the Women & Infants Hospital Center for Women’s Behavioral Health in Providence. Psychiatrists there tell her she does not have postpartum depression, as she has no symptoms of postpartum depression, according to Sprague.

Lindsay Clancy timeline: What court records, attorney statements reveal about the Duxbury mother’s mental health

Details from police, prosecutors, and Clancy's attorney help tell the story of the Duxbury mother's mental health. Read more on Boston.com.

www.boston.com

That was only one hospital/visit. And it doesn't clarify what diagnosis that particular psychiatrist gave her. She was then admitted to another psych hospital with suicidal thoughts. As far as I know, we don't know what diagnosis that hospital or psychiatrist gave her.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I doubt it. There is no test that I am aware of that will use DNA to determine whether or not you're at higher risk of homicidal violence. All those tests allegedly do is tell you how you metabolize the drug and whether or not it should be avoided because it's ineffective for you or because your body doesn't get rid of it quickly. I suppose someone could say if she metabolizes the drug slowly, she's at more risk of side effects, but it would be a stretch, mainly because of inconsistent studies leading to most of those tests being widely debunked.

RBBM
I did not say there was a test for genetic mutations, which means you are at a higher risk for homicidal violence.
I said:

Maybe they are checking for specific gene mutations that indicate an abnormal reaction to certain medications.

and:

Maybe the defense has said she has an abnormal reaction to medications, and so it is being checked?

Which I then said was "just an idea".

Besides, IF there was a genetic mutation that caused an increase/decrease (and sometimes, completely ignored) in the metabolism of a specific drug, which can be evidenced to show a chance of psychosis, it is not an excuse for murder. Still, it needs to be accounted for within a plea or mitigation during sentencing.
The pharmaceutical list and schedule look crazy for anyone. The mental health records evidenced to us show there are diagnoses and inpatient stays, and IIRC friends and family have spoken of her ongoing troubles with different doctors and her care.

It is not just a genetic mutation disrupting a particular drug's metabolism; it is also the combination of the drugs. Some drugs cause a reaction when taken alongside another drug. With some mental health medications, this CAN cause psychological effects, including the very symptoms the co-prescribed medications are trying to suppress.

JMO
ETA:
Substance-induced psychosis -Wikipedia
"Substance-induced psychosis (commonly known as toxic psychosis or drug-induced psychosis) is a form of psychosis that is attributed to substance intoxication. It is a psychosis that results from the effects of chemicals or drugs. Various psychoactive substances have been implicated in causing or worsening psychosis in users."

 

[Howl]

Some drugs cause a reaction when taken alongside another drug. With some mental health medications, this CAN cause psychological effects, including the very symptoms the co-prescribed medications are trying to suppress...

Yup. Please refer to Andrea Yates. One psychiatrist noted that the cocktail of anti-psychotic drugs she was prescribed was like throwing gasoline on a roaring fire in terms of her psychotic symptoms.

LC murdered her three children in the brief interval that her husband was away to pick up some fast food. Andrea Yates took advantage of the very brief interval after her husband left for work and before the arrival of her mother in law, to drown her five children, and called police when she was done.

Andrea Yates knew what she was doing was "wrong", but was powerless against the psychotic compulsion to carry out these horrible acts.

After her 2nd trail, Andrea Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity and was remanded to a psychiatric facility in Kerrville, TX, where she remains, and waives the possibility of being released.

I so truly hope LC goes to a psychiatric hospital and not to a prison. I think both Andrea Yates and LC were failed by the medical profession and were powerless over their psychoses.

Also, check out the legend of La Llorona. I've read speculation that the deep origin of the La Llorna legend is based on a woman or women who murder(ed) their children in the throes of post-partum psychosis.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

RBBM
I did not say there was a test for genetic mutations, which means you are at a higher risk for homicidal violence.
I said:

and:

Which I then said was "just an idea".

Besides, IF there was a genetic mutation that caused an increase/decrease (and sometimes, completely ignored) in the metabolism of a specific drug, which can be evidenced to show a chance of psychosis, it is not an excuse for murder. Still, it needs to be accounted for within a plea or mitigation during sentencing.
The pharmaceutical list and schedule look crazy for anyone. The mental health records evidenced to us show there are diagnoses and inpatient stays, and IIRC friends and family have spoken of her ongoing troubles with different doctors and her care.

I'm aware of medications can do, but that wasn't what I was responding to. I was responding to this statement:
"Maybe they are checking for specific gene mutations that indicate an abnormal reaction to certain medications."

I'm saying all DNA would do in that case is tell them how she's metabolizing her medications and I don't see how that's relevant since even if she didn't metabolize meds the right way, it wouldn't be a defense, JMO. That's my point.

It is not just a genetic mutation disrupting a particular drug's metabolism; it is also the combination of the drugs. Some drugs cause a reaction when taken alongside another drug. With some mental health medications, this CAN cause psychological effects, including the very symptoms the co-prescribed medications are trying to suppress.

JMO
ETA:
Substance-induced psychosis -Wikipedia
"Substance-induced psychosis (commonly known as toxic psychosis or drug-induced psychosis) is a form of psychosis that is attributed to substance intoxication. It is a psychosis that results from the effects of chemicals or drugs. Various psychoactive substances have been implicated in causing or worsening psychosis in users."

They wouldn't need DNA for this and again that's all I was responding to -- the relevance or irrelevance of DNA.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yup. Please refer to Andrea Yates. One psychiatrist noted that the cocktail of anti-psychotic drugs she was prescribed was like throwing gasoline on a roaring fire in terms of her psychotic symptoms.

Can you please post a link to this statement?

 

[Howl]

Can you please post a link to this statement?

Sorry, no. I do recall it from reading a bookabout Andrea Yates, probably "Are You There Alone: The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates" (2005), and it's stayed with me through the years.

For a quick refresher, I came across this post from on Oprah.com by Suzanne O'Malley (author of the book noted above) called "A Cry in the Dark". It has a summary of the Andrea Yates filicides and discusses her course of treatment. After the birth of her fourth child, Yates attempted suicide. This sentence stands out: "Yates was transferred to the psychiatric unit of Methodist Hospital, where James Flack, M.D., diagnosed her with 'major depressive disorder, single episode, severe.' This marked the beginning of a spiral into full-blown psychosis that was never adequately treated."

​

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Sorry, no. I do recall it from reading a bookabout Andrea Yates, probably "Are You There Alone: The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates" (2005), and it's stayed with me through the years.

For a quick refresher, I came across this post from on Oprah.com by Suzanne O'Malley (author of the book noted above) called "A Cry in the Dark". It has a summary of the Andrea Yates filicides and discusses her course of treatment. After the birth of her fourth child, Yates attempted suicide. This sentence stands out: "Yates was transferred to the psychiatric unit of Methodist Hospital, where James Flack, M.D., diagnosed her with 'major depressive disorder, single episode, severe.' This marked the beginning of a spiral into full-blown psychosis that was never adequately treated."

That doesn't say what you're claiming, which was "One psychiatrist noted that the cocktail of anti-psychotic drugs she was prescribed was like throwing gasoline on a roaring fire in terms of her psychotic symptoms." The above actually implies the opposite. The treatment of psychosis is antipsychotics. If psychosis wasn't adequately treated, it suggests she needed more medicine, not less/different.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That doesn't say what you're claiming, which was "One psychiatrist noted that the cocktail of anti-psychotic drugs she was prescribed was like throwing gasoline on a roaring fire in terms of her psychotic symptoms." The above actually implies the opposite. The treatment of psychosis is antipsychotics. If psychosis wasn't adequately treated, it suggests she needed more medicine, not less/different.

The reference may be alluding to the complaint filed by the Yates family against the psychiatrist due to the dosage of Effexor he prescribed. Another psychiatrist disputed that claim stating “Saeed's greatest error was taking Yates off the antipsychotic drug Haldol two weeks before she killed her children.”

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Family-files-complaint-against-Yates-psychiatrist-2085205.php