Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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Berrybell said:
The area's low population is one reason TA would be asked or accepted on the volunteer boards, she is also a lifetime resident and her family has been in the area for multiple generations. I recall it was mentioned TA's farm is in a trust, she won't be able to mortgage or use it as collateral. I am not sure about Twombleys, if they have mortgages or back taxes they cannot use their property either. My family calls it "land poor", your assets look good on paper. But, you cannot raise quick cash. You can sell out but you're right @Cool Cats you have to pay off the debts and hope you can sell quickly, that means lowering the price. I am sure their farm equipment is also mortgaged, we already saw they are being sued by the feed and seed store for several thousand dollars.

In Oklahoma, we often don't know if our neighbors are religious zealots or militia-minded, these types tend to keep it quiet and among themselves. It is not uncommon to have several small "cowboy churches" in every town, these are farm/ranch-minded Christian churches, and seldom lean towards such a radical way of thinking and actions. I can see where neighbors did not give their church a second thought. I can also say if the man who rents one of our pastures asks to do dirt work we wouldn't be concerned (of course if he came to us with a story about lying or not mentioning the work, we would go straight to the sheriff's office).
Click to expand...

Very interesting, thanks. Seems your from there and even rent out your pastures.

There is no church as far as I can tell. They are a group calling themselves "God's Misfits" with religious affiliation.....whatever that means.

They were meeting at the Twombly's home and the Cook's home weekly.
I think because of the term "religious affiliation" it gets interpreted to mean church.

I think they decide how to interpret the Bible depending on their own views. Like probably pretending that God wanted them to kill. After all, look at what Adam's shirt says. She was wearing it only 4 days after she brutally murdered the mother of her grandchildren and the wife of a Kansas pastor.

www.newsnationnow.com

Video: Grandma accused in Kansas moms killings seen days after deaths

A newly released video shows one of the suspects in the killings of the Kansas moms just days after their deaths.
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com
 

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Berrybell said:
The area's low population is one reason TA would be asked or accepted on the volunteer boards, she is also a lifetime resident and her family has been in the area for multiple generations. I recall it was mentioned TA's farm is in a trust, she won't be able to mortgage or use it as collateral. I am not sure about Twombleys, if they have mortgages or back taxes they cannot use their property either. My family calls it "land poor", your assets look good on paper. But, you cannot raise quick cash. You can sell out but you're right @Cool Cats you have to pay off the debts and hope you can sell quickly, that means lowering the price. I am sure their farm equipment is also mortgaged, we already saw they are being sued by the feed and seed store for several thousand dollars.

In Oklahoma, we often don't know if our neighbors are religious zealots or militia-minded, these types tend to keep it quiet and among themselves. It is not uncommon to have several small "cowboy churches" in every town, these are farm/ranch-minded Christian churches, and seldom lean towards such a radical way of thinking and actions. I can see where neighbors did not give their church a second thought. I can also say if the man who rents one of our pastures asks to do dirt work we wouldn't be concerned (of course if he came to us with a story about lying or not mentioning the work, we would go straight to the sheriff's office).
Click to expand...
@Berrybell -- thanks for sharing your insight of the area. I agree that this group seems more an extremist group dependent on each other for influence and control than the typical "cowboy church."
 
Keyes, & Cimarron Co. Churches? HH Income?
Some info from city data & wiki. FWIW.
In 2020, Keyes pop. = 276;* Cimarron County pop. = 2,296.**
3 churches, in Keyes ^ relatively low population?*
Wondering if any of the defendants had attended or were members of any of those churches, currently or in the past? IDK.

As some of our posters (TYVM :) ) noted, some households in that zip code may be land rich & cash poor. Others, maybe not, per below & link, see income.

Perhaps oil & gas royalty income? Helium?

If some of the def'ts are in the indicated inc. brackets, seems they be able to foot the bill for private def. counsel. IDK. moo moo moo

______________________________
* Scroll nearly halfway down to a map.
"Notable locations" in this zip code "not listed on our city pages:"
"Churches in zip code 73947 include: Church of Christ (A), United Methodist Church (B), Baptist Church (C). Display/hide their locations on the map."

"... county economy has been largely based on cattle ranching and agriculture...Oil and natural gas production became important in the 1960s,... gas plant near Keyes began producing helium in 1959. In 2000, Cimarron County had the ninth-highest per capita income of all Oklahoma counties." **
"Distribution of media household income in zip code 79947"
In 2022 "$150,000 to $199,999.....85"
.........."$200,000 or more..........3"

en.wikipedia.org

Cimarron County, Oklahoma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
al66pine said:
Keyes, & Cimarron Co. Churches? HH Income?
Some info from city data & wiki. FWIW.
In 2020, Keyes pop. = 276;* Cimarron County pop. = 2,296.**
3 churches, in Keyes ^ relatively low population?*
Wondering if any of the defendants had attended or were members of any of those churches, currently or in the past? IDK.

As some of our posters (TYVM :) ) noted, some households in that zip code may be land rich & cash poor. Others, maybe not, per below & link, see income.

Perhaps oil & gas royalty income? Helium?

If some of the def'ts are in the indicated inc. brackets, seems they be able to foot the bill for private def. counsel. IDK. moo moo moo

______________________________
* Scroll nearly halfway down to a map.
"Notable locations" in this zip code "not listed on our city pages:"
"Churches in zip code 73947 include: Church of Christ (A), United Methodist Church (B), Baptist Church (C). Display/hide their locations on the map."

"... county economy has been largely based on cattle ranching and agriculture...Oil and natural gas production became important in the 1960s,... gas plant near Keyes began producing helium in 1959. In 2000, Cimarron County had the ninth-highest per capita income of all Oklahoma counties." **
"Distribution of media household income in zip code 79947"
In 2022 "$150,000 to $199,999.....85"
.........."$200,000 or more..........3"

en.wikipedia.org

Cimarron County, Oklahoma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Some more info re Cimarron CO OK.

Like most farming communities they live poor and die rich!! JMO
 
al66pine said:
Keyes, & Cimarron Co. Churches? HH Income?
Some info from city data & wiki. FWIW.
In 2020, Keyes pop. = 276;* Cimarron County pop. = 2,296.**
3 churches, in Keyes ^ relatively low population?*
Wondering if any of the defendants had attended or were members of any of those churches, currently or in the past? IDK.

As some of our posters (TYVM :) ) noted, some households in that zip code may be land rich & cash poor. Others, maybe not, per below & link, see income.

Perhaps oil & gas royalty income? Helium?

If some of the def'ts are in the indicated inc. brackets, seems they be able to foot the bill for private def. counsel. IDK. moo moo moo

______________________________
* Scroll nearly halfway down to a map.
"Notable locations" in this zip code "not listed on our city pages:"
"Churches in zip code 73947 include: Church of Christ (A), United Methodist Church (B), Baptist Church (C). Display/hide their locations on the map."

"... county economy has been largely based on cattle ranching and agriculture...Oil and natural gas production became important in the 1960s,... gas plant near Keyes began producing helium in 1959. In 2000, Cimarron County had the ninth-highest per capita income of all Oklahoma counties." **
"Distribution of media household income in zip code 79947"
In 2022 "$150,000 to $199,999.....85"
.........."$200,000 or more..........3"

en.wikipedia.org

Cimarron County, Oklahoma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Thank you this is good information.
 
"The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine," or something like that. It's an old, old saying, and it's been on my mind because of this terrible case.

I never quite plan to dwell on it, but over the days those two murdered women drift through my mind. IMO, there aren't words to describe the terror they must have felt, but that doesn't prevent me trying to imagine it.

The irrevocable moment when VB realized that granny TA had finally bagged her, after years of acrimony and accusations, and would now see her killed. Knowing she would never see her children again.

The irrevocable moment when JK realized agreeing to ride along as a supervisor was going to cost her her life. Knowing she would never see her children again.

My mind always stops at the same place: hoping that the shock of the attack was so intense that neither of the women had time to fully grasp that their lives were ending. (Though I think the miscreants who murdered them absolutely wanted them to suffer the knowing.)

It's going to be hard waiting for the justice on this one.
 
Teche said:
Who is caring for VB’s children while the dad is in treatment?
Click to expand...
Generally, when a parent dies and the other parent in police custody (which the father here is in treatment in lieu of police custody), the Court will assign the minors a GAL who serves as an evaluator and not a decision maker, who advises the Court in the best interest of the children. IMO, the children are most likely in the custody of Dept of Human Services where members of the family can petition the Court for temporary guardianship.

law.justia.com

2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 10A. Children and Juvenile Code :: §10A-1-1-102. Recognition of duties, rights and interests – Legislative intent.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes
law.justia.com law.justia.com

C. Whenever it is necessary for a child to be placed outside the home pursuant to the Oklahoma Children's Code, it is the intent of the Legislature that:

1. Each child shall be assured the care, guidance, and supervision in a permanent home or foster home that will serve the best interests of the child including, but not limited to, the development of the moral, emotional, spiritual, mental, social, educational, and physical well-being of the child;

2. When a child is placed in foster care, the foster parent shall be allowed to consider the child as part of the family;

3. Whenever possible siblings shall be placed together and when it is not possible efforts shall be made to preserve the relationships through visitation and other methods of communication; and

4. Permanent placement is achieved as soon as possible.

D. A foster parent or group home where a child is placed has a recognizable interest in the familial relationship that the foster parent or group home establishes with a foster child and shall therefore be considered an essential participant with regard to decisions related to the care, supervision, guidance, rearing, and other foster care services to the child.

E. It is the intent of the Legislature that the paramount consideration in all proceedings within the Oklahoma Children's Code is the best interests of the child.
 
Muddy K said:
Yes, I wonder this too and hope they are with her family.
Click to expand...

Placement of Children With Relatives - Oklahoma​

DATE: SEPTEMBER 2022
Relative Placement for Foster Care and Guardianship
Citation: Ann. Stat. Tit. 10A, §§ 1-1-105; 1-4-204

'Kinship relation' or 'kinship relationship' means relatives, stepparents, or other responsible adults who have a bond or tie with a child and/or to whom has been ascribed a family relationship role with the child's parents or the child.

When awarding custody or determining the placement of a child, a preference shall be given to relatives and persons who have a kinship relationship with the child. The Department of Human Services shall make diligent efforts to place the child with such persons and shall report to the court the efforts made to secure that placement.

The department shall consider placement with a relative without delay and shall identify relatives of the child and notify them of the need for temporary placement and the possibility of the need for a permanent out-of-home placement of the child.

The relative search shall be reasonable and comprehensive in scope and may continue until a fit and willing relative is identified. A nationwide relative search shall be conducted by the department within 3 months of the child being taken into custody.

The provisions of this section shall apply to all custody or placement proceedings that concern a child alleged or adjudicated to be deprived, including, but not limited to, guardianship and adoption proceedings.
 
Guardians for Children?
Cool Cats said:

Placement of Children With Relatives - Oklahoma​

DATE: SEPTEMBER 2022
Relative Placement for Foster Care and Guardianship
Citation: Ann. Stat. Tit. 10A, §§ 1-1-105; 1-4-204

'Kinship relation' or 'kinship relationship' means relatives, stepparents, or other responsible adults who have a bond or tie with a child and/or to whom has been ascribed a family relationship role with the child's parents or the child.

When awarding custody or determining the placement of a child, a preference shall be given to relatives and persons who have a kinship relationship with the child. The Department of Human Services shall make diligent efforts to place the child with such persons and shall report to the court the efforts made to secure that placement.

The department shall consider placement with a relative without delay and shall identify relatives of the child and notify them of the need for temporary placement and the possibility of the need for a permanent out-of-home placement of the child.

The relative search shall be reasonable and comprehensive in scope and may continue until a fit and willing relative is identified. A nationwide relative search shall be conducted by the department within 3 months of the child being taken into custody.

The provisions of this section shall apply to all custody or placement proceedings that concern a child alleged or adjudicated to be deprived, including, but not limited to, guardianship and adoption proceedings.
Click to expand...
@Cool Cats Thx for your post w this info.

Do I recall correctly that the child custody proceedings were ongoing in OK, not in KS?
If so, seems regardless of where VB's family members live, OK law at least considers them for placement.

From ^ post: "A nationwide relative search shall be conducted by the department..."
Glad to see that. :)
 
Cool Cats said:

Placement of Children With Relatives - Oklahoma​

DATE: SEPTEMBER 2022
Relative Placement for Foster Care and Guardianship
Citation: Ann. Stat. Tit. 10A, §§ 1-1-105; 1-4-204

'Kinship relation' or 'kinship relationship' means relatives, stepparents, or other responsible adults who have a bond or tie with a child and/or to whom has been ascribed a family relationship role with the child's parents or the child.

When awarding custody or determining the placement of a child, a preference shall be given to relatives and persons who have a kinship relationship with the child. The Department of Human Services shall make diligent efforts to place the child with such persons and shall report to the court the efforts made to secure that placement.

The department shall consider placement with a relative without delay and shall identify relatives of the child and notify them of the need for temporary placement and the possibility of the need for a permanent out-of-home placement of the child.

The relative search shall be reasonable and comprehensive in scope and may continue until a fit and willing relative is identified. A nationwide relative search shall be conducted by the department within 3 months of the child being taken into custody.

The provisions of this section shall apply to all custody or placement proceedings that concern a child alleged or adjudicated to be deprived, including, but not limited to, guardianship and adoption proceedings.
Click to expand...
Veronica has a sister around the same age. Lord knows if she wants to take on two kids but I hope so.
 
al66pine said:
Guardians for Children?
@Cool Cats Thx for your post w this info.

Do I recall correctly that the child custody proceedings were ongoing in OK, not in KS?
If so, seems regardless of where VB's family members live, OK law at least considers them for placement.

From ^ post: "A nationwide relative search shall be conducted by the department..."
Glad to see that. :)
Click to expand...

The kids can move out of state to be with their guardians, happens all the time. Doubt the father has much say at this point.
 
Cool Cats said:
The kids can move out of state to be with their guardians, happens all the time. Doubt the father has much say at this point.
Click to expand...
I hope when it comes to evaluating his fitness as a parent that in addition to criminal record, including domestic abuse of his wife (who is Veronica's cousin, right?), that they take into account his telling his grandmother that Tifany was going to ambush Veronica at the drop off.
 
Artis said:
I hope when it comes to evaluating his fitness as a parent that in addition to criminal record, including domestic abuse of his wife (who is Veronica's cousin, right?), that they take into account his telling his grandmother that Tifany was going to ambush Veronica at the drop off.
Click to expand...

His wife is Veronica. I was talking about the kids' father.

He totally denies telling his grandmother these things ......

They didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and we will take out Veronica at drop off.

Sounds like he conspired....2 Cents
 
Cool Cats said:
His wife is Veronica. I was talking about the kids' father.

He totally denies telling his grandmother these things ......

They didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and we will take out Veronica at drop off.

Sounds like he conspired....2 Cents
Click to expand...
Back in the day, yes, he's go to jail or the hangman's noose with the rest of them.
 
Cool Cats said:
His wife is Veronica. I was talking about the kids' father.

He totally denies telling his grandmother these things ......

They didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and we will take out Veronica at drop off.

Sounds like he conspired....2 Cents
Click to expand...
I was talking about Wrangler, as you are. I believe I read that Wrangler's wife is Veronica's cousin. Maybe I got that screwed up and someone can clarify.
 
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