Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[Cool Cats]

I was talking about Wrangler, as you are. I believe I read that Wrangler's wife is Veronica's cousin. Maybe I got that screwed up and someone can clarify.

Sorry, got mixed up. Yes, maybe they are cousins?

I assume Veronica has parents and siblings and cousins to take care of the children. People the kids are bonded with.

Can't sleuth the kids so I will just assume they are doing real well, considering.

When are the next court dates?

 

[Cool Cats]

Back in the day, yes, he's go to jail or the hangman's noose with the rest of them.

I think people knew about plans being made and I hope there is accountiblity. Wrangler, Cooks, daughter, etc... all may have known or suspected.

Hard to prove. Someone just saying it isn't enough. Wrangler denies saying anything to his grandmother about it. But then how would she know? She talked to LE before the affidavit came out so she didn't get her information from the affidavit.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Depends on the state. Ever heard of Harmony Montgomery? Just sayin..

I see no connection. The only time kids can't leave the state is when it hurts the other parent's shared custody or visitstion. Children are not denied the best legal guardians simply because the guardians live in a different place.

The other exception is when the state has custody, then the children reside in that state while permanent custody is found.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Veronica has a sister around the same age. Lord knows if she wants to take on two kids but I hope so.

Thanks.

 

[Seattle1]

I see no connection. The only time kids can't leave the state is when it hurts the other parent's shared custody or visitstion. Children are not denied the best legal guardians simply because the guardians live in a different place.

The other exception is when the state has custody, then the children reside in that state while permanent custody is found.

2 Cents

I'm sorry @Cool Cats that I failed to be clear in my post. I was referring specifically to the rights of fathers, criminal or not, being dependent on the State of their residency, and was not referring to the location of any custodian.

For example, Harmony Montgomery was a 6 yr old child whose father was a career criminal who was in prison on the date she was born. When he was released from prison, the Court removed her from foster care and granted him custody of his daughter who he went on to torture, abuse, and eventually murder. Harmony's remains are still missing but her biological father was convicted of her murder a few weeks ago.

We cannot say that Wrangler will not retain custody of his children, or that he will allow them to leave the State of OK.

 

[GRT]

His wife is Veronica. I was talking about the kids' father.

He totally denies telling his grandmother these things ......

They didn't have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and we will take out Veronica at drop off.

Sounds like he conspired....2 Cents

Agree, and even if he didn't conspire (although I think he did), he knew, and he told no one. He didn't warn the mother of his children that she was about to be slaughtered.

That makes him nearly as bad as his crazy mother. Certainly not dad material.

 

[Seattle1]

I was talking about Wrangler, as you are. I believe I read that Wrangler's wife is Veronica's cousin. Maybe I got that screwed up and someone can clarify.

IIRC, Veronica and Wrangler's wife were cousins by marriage and the relationship that connected them was long ago dissolved. In other words, they they were not blood related before or during the union, or after the dissolution. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Agree, and even if he didn't conspire (although I think he did), he knew, and he told no one. He didn't warn the mother of his children that she was about to be slaughtered.

That makes him nearly as bad as his crazy mother. Certainly not dad material.

As the grandmother didn’t raise an alarm, can we believe her? It doesn’t seem reasonable that she keep quiet at the time if her grandson had indeed reached out to her.
JMO

 

[Berrybell]

As the grandmother didn’t raise an alarm, can we believe her? It doesn’t seem reasonable that she keep quiet at the time if her grandson had indeed reached out to her.
JMO

Do we know if the grandmother was TA's mother or Wrangler's grandmother on his father's side? The grandmother may have thought the plan Wrangler told her to kill VB was so outlandish she dismissed it as such. She may have also been use to TA's crazy rants.

Oklahoma will determine the placement of VB and Wrangler's children, even though she was about to regain custody or improved visitation does not mean the state will find her a member of her family a good guardian. The state may also think Wrangler is not trustworthy, but it won't eliminate one of his siblings or family members as a guardian. I hope the children are placed with VBs family, but I am afraid it is going to be a contentious battle.

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know if the grandmother was TA's mother or Wrangler's grandmother on his father's side? The grandmother may have thought the plan Wrangler told her to kill VB was so outlandish she dismissed it as such. She may have also been use to TA's crazy rants.

Oklahoma will determine the placement of VB and Wrangler's children, even though she was about to regain custody or improved visitation does not mean the state will find her a member of her family a good guardian. The state may also think Wrangler is not trustworthy, but it won't eliminate one of his siblings or family members as a guardian. I hope the children are placed with VBs family, but I am afraid it is going to be a contentious battle.

WR's appellate brief over VB being granted custody of the children and WR granted visitation, was linked in the earlier threads-- and details a sorted history with the familial relationships including WR's paternal grandmother. The grandmother in question here was TA's former mother-in-law.

They (WR/TA) previously accused the subject grandmother of abusing the children and VB not protecting the children. Abuse including the grandmother making a child water the chickens and the chickens pecking the toddler on the head. VB and the children were being housed by the subject grandmother at the time.

IMO, the grandmother evicted VB and the children after being threatened by TA (for providing them shelter). It would be much better for WR's appeal if VB was homeless and moving the children around from place to place-- allegedly without informing the father. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Do we know if the grandmother was TA's mother or Wrangler's grandmother on his father's side? The grandmother may have thought the plan Wrangler told her to kill VB was so outlandish she dismissed it as such. She may have also been use to TA's crazy rants.

Oklahoma will determine the placement of VB and Wrangler's children, even though she was about to regain custody or improved visitation does not mean the state will find her a member of her family a good guardian. The state may also think Wrangler is not trustworthy, but it won't eliminate one of his siblings or family members as a guardian. I hope the children are placed with VBs family, but I am afraid it is going to be a contentious battle.

IIRC the grandmother wasn’t TA’s mother. So she would’ve been an ex-MIL of TA’s and therefore one can take a good guess that the relationship between the two was not amiable given TA’s need for control. I don’t recall it said that her son (Wrangler’s father) is still living.

I don’t think it’s prudent to try to guess at the outcome of child custody issues. We’re only privy to small snippets of unverified information. I will trust that family services will make decisions in the best interests of the children. Considering the children have lost their mother, it can be harmful to their mental wellbeing to refuse them any or all access to their other surviving parent but facts will dictate decisions. Does the father want to remain in their lives, we don’t know where he stands but it would seem surprising if he’s not allowed any access if he requests it.

These children are going to need to be surrounded by a tremendous amount of love and support throughout their young years regardless of which ‘side’ is involved in their placement. The more people who are willing to step up with genuine intensions, the easier it will be for them going forward IMO.

The outcome of a contentious battle regarding custody of these children resulted in this horrible tragedy. If it were it to continue, hardly missing a step, would be the absolute worst case scenario. Surely for the sake of the children smarter and kindhearted heads will prevail….

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm sorry @Cool Cats that I failed to be clear in my post. I was referring specifically to the rights of fathers, criminal or not, being dependent on the State of their residency, and was not referring to the location of any custodian.

For example, Harmony Montgomery was a 6 yr old child whose father was a career criminal who was in prison on the date she was born. When he was released from prison, the Court removed her from foster care and granted him custody of his daughter who he went on to torture, abuse, and eventually murder. Harmony's remains are still missing but her biological father was convicted of her murder a few weeks ago.

We cannot say that Wrangler will not retain custody of his children, or that he will allow them to leave the State of OK.

Hard to have custody when in rehab. The grandma says the father knew ahead of time, the kids will read this some day.

Can't discuss the children but you can see where this is headed.

2 Cents

 

[Berrybell]

WR's appellate brief over VB being granted custody of the children and WR granted visitation, was linked in the earlier threads-- and details a sorted history with the familial relationships including WR's paternal grandmother. The grandmother in question here was TA's former mother-in-law.

They (WR/TA) previously accused the subject grandmother of abusing the children and VB not protecting the children. Abuse including the grandmother making a child water the chickens and the chickens pecking the toddler on the head. VB and the children were being housed by the subject grandmother at the time.

IMO, the grandmother evicted VB and the children after being threatened by TA (for providing them shelter). It would be much better for WR's appeal if VB was homeless and moving the children around from place to place-- allegedly without informing the father. MOO

WOW!! Thank you for this information I did not see it earlier. This tells of an extreme abuse by TA and WR for years and no family member was safe from the harassment.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

WR's appellate brief over VB being granted custody of the children and WR granted visitation, was linked in the earlier threads-- and details a sorted history with the familial relationships including WR's paternal grandmother. The grandmother in question here was TA's former mother-in-law.

They (WR/TA) previously accused the subject grandmother of abusing the children and VB not protecting the children. Abuse including the grandmother making a child water the chickens and the chickens pecking the toddler on the head. VB and the children were being housed by the subject grandmother at the time.

IMO, the grandmother evicted VB and the children after being threatened by TA (for providing them shelter). It would be much better for WR's appeal if VB was homeless and moving the children around from place to place-- allegedly without informing the father. MOO

this is how I saw it as well.
I feel this grandmother is fairly reliable. Well, those were my thoughts on the beginning of this tale.

 

[ClearAhead]

this is how I saw it as well.
I feel this grandmother is fairly reliable. Well, those were my thoughts on the beginning of this tale.

I don’t think any of these characters warrant a badge of honour. This grandmother surely knew of TA’s animosity towards VB as she’d been in the middle of it all yet when her grandson confided in her that VBs life was in danger she did absolutely nothing but keep quiet? Maybe this supposed confession by Wrangler was his best attempt to seek help if he was in detox at the time and he expected his grandmother to pass the information along to authorities? Instead the grandmother did nothing with the information until after the fact, far too late - not my definition of reliable.

What’s so sad is at least three people knew VB’s life was in mortal danger and not one of them raised alarm bells. (The two above plus Cora’s daughter who allegedly overheard plotting during Misfit meetings). Was that the extent of the reign of terror that TA and crew held over everyone?

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don’t think any of these characters warrant a badge of honour. This grandmother surely knew of TA’s animosity towards VB as she’d been in the middle of it all yet when her grandson confided in her that VBs life was in danger she did absolutely nothing but keep quiet? Maybe this supposed confession by Wrangler was his best attempt to seek help if he was in detox at the time and he expected his grandmother to pass the information along to authorities? Instead the grandmother did nothing with the information until after the fact, far too late - not my definition of reliable.

What’s so sad is at least three people knew VB’s life was in mortal danger and not one of them raised alarm bells. (The two above plus Cora’s daughter who allegedly overheard plotting during Misfit meetings). Was that the extent of the reign of terror that TA and crew held over everyone?

JMO

I was thinking Wrangler and Cora's daughter knew Veronica was in jeopardy but I didn't think about the grandmother also getting a heads up.

How could so many people not warn Veronica?
If 3 knew ahead of time - that clues me in - that more likely knew.

Speaking of "reign of terror" no this wasn't the extent, they had bullied people before according to court docs. Also, they did not want LE interviewing Cora's daughter in TX so the Twomblys went to TX with guns and created a ruckus.

2 Cents

 

[Rixey]

I was thinking Wrangler and Cora's daughter knew Veronica was in jeopardy but I didn't think about the grandmother also getting a heads up.
about th
How could so many people not warn Veronica?
If 3 knew ahead of time - that clues me in - that more likely knew.

Speaking of "reign of terror" no this wasn't the extent, they had bullied people before according to court docs. Also, they did not want LE interviewing Cora's daughter in TX so the Twomblys went to TX with guns and created a ruckus.

2 Cents

It's likely that while plenty of people believed that TA was manipulative and vindictive, and possibly feared her wrath, they likely didn't think she was actually homicidal. I would guess she had threatened all sorts of things in the past but (presumably) hadn't killed anyone.

I do think Cora's daughter probably did know a whole lot about the plans, but given her age I doubt she knew what to do or who to go to when it was still "just talk" and was likely afraid of the repercussions from Cora and Cole if she told anyone. Only after the fact did she realize the reality of the situation and that she needed to tell someone no matter what. I can't imagine how she felt when she to came to the realization that her mother and stepfather, the people she lived with, loved and depended on, had just murdered two women and acted as if it was a totally rational thing to do. That must have been terrifying.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's likely that while plenty of people believed that TA was manipulative and vindictive, and possibly feared her wrath, they likely didn't think she was actually homicidal. I would guess she had threatened all sorts of things in the past but (presumably) hadn't killed anyone.

I do think Cora's daughter probably did know a whole lot about the plans, but given her age I doubt she knew what to do or who to go to when it was still "just talk" and was likely afraid of the repercussions from Cora and Cole if she told anyone. Only after the fact did she realize the reality of the situation and that she needed to tell someone no matter what. I can't imagine how she felt when she to came to the realization that her mother and stepfather, the people she lived with, loved and depended on, had just murdered two women and acted as if it was a totally rational thing to do. That must have been terrifying.

Makes sense. Too hard to report her mom then have the mom get super mad at her at only 16.
I have heard it said in many cases that:

"I didn't think they would really do it."
"Thought they were kidding."

And it was vague not like they announced:

"On this date we have plans to do this, here is what the plan is."

Also, Wrangler talked like he was glad custody would be taken care of. Snake in the grass.

2 Cents

 

[ClearAhead]

<snipped to reply>

Also, Wrangler talked like he was glad custody would be taken care of. Snake in the grass.

2 Cents

What leads you to believe “Wrangler talked like he was glad custody would be taken care of”? I don’t recall that Wrangler has publicly ever made his views known although at one time he was agreeable to joint custody. Nothing gave the impression the battle was between him and Veronica, instead TA walked all over him.

Often drugs and alcohol become an easy alternative as opposed to dealing with buried issues. I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone to have someone like TA as a mother. That’s a lifelong tough burden to overcome. Maybe he’s elated to have her out of his life? JMO

 

[Error505]

There’s a Discovery Status hearing Wednesday, June 19 @ 9 am CDT in Texas County District Court for ALL DEFENDANTS, I double checked each one.
EBM added screenshot

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