Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23

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If it’s the case that someone impersonating Marion came into Australia with her passport in August 1997, then that adds one more person who knows something about what happened to her. Maybe they don’t know everything but enough to contribute to the inquest. Interesting that no one came forward. If there is such a person then that guilt must hang around their neck like a heavy stone.

I am glad that Marion has been brought forward as a colourful human being, flaws and all. If she had been allowed to live her full life then it is reasonable to say that her relationships, particularly with Owen, would have improved. And she deserves to have the lion’s share of the attention.

The Nowhere Man is kind of boring to me, he is a type. I think deep down he knows his essence is unsubstantial. He even manufactures “rare” coins. He has to copy or steal anything of value because he can’t earn it genuinely. Not like Marion who earned her accolades and took the punches which came from being herself.
 
mishy66 said:
Just listing all the aliases we know of so far with birthdates he used

Anthony Grech - July 1951
Atilla Dupont - date unknown
Bernard Dupont - March 1944
Charles Guyon - April 1947
Christopher Du Pont - March 1944
Christopher Stein - March 1944
David Freddy - February 1937 and June 1932
Fernand Nocolas Remakel - December 1947
Francis David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate
Franck Melan - September 1938
Freddy David- June 1942
Frederick David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate
Frederick De Hedervaru - AH real birthdate
Frederick De Hedervary- AH real birthdate
Frederique De-Haverdary - AH real birthdate
Gaetan Le Boursicot - October 1939
Guy Divio - 1 January 1901 ( WTActual ? This has to be a typo surely??!)
Philippe Dint - March 1937
Remy Lajoy - September 1938
Ric Blum- AH birthdate
Rich Richard - as above
Richard Lloyd West - as above
Richard Lloyd Westbury - as above
Rick Richard - as above
Rick West - as above
Roger Lazoney / Lauzoney - February 1945
Willy Coppenolle - AH real birthdate
Willy / Will David-Coppenolle. - AH real birthdate
Willy Wouters - AH real birthdate
Wouters Willy - AH real birthdate


* MB FB page has also said he used De Hedervay - without the last R


Then theres :

Willy BOUTEN
Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY
Chaim DE HEDERVARY
Chaim Frederick DAVID
Zabdiel Zillig

Fleming - last name
Wilson - last name

Chusan - first name
Click to expand...
ADDING THE PASSPORTS TO THE NAMES AND A FEW MORE NAMES I HAD ON MY LIST

Anthony Grech - July 1951


Atilla Dupont - date unknown


Bernard Dupont - March 1944


Charles Guyon - April 1947


Christopher Du Pont - March 1944


Christopher Stein - March 1944


David Freddy - February 1937 and June 1932


Fernand Nocolas Remakel - December 1947


Francis David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate


Franck Melan - September 1938


Freddy David- June 1942 - (also used Ricky)


Frederick David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate - HIS 1ST Australian Passport
- travelled on that name in and out of Aust numerous times
THEN 2nd and 3rd AND 4TH RE-ISSUED PASSPORTS

1986 RETURNS TO AUSTRALIA AFTER LIVING OS WITH DIANE

***Newspaper report that he was OS when the Brabant offences occurred living in Luxembourg & Burwash. One of the earliest Brabant offences was the theft of automatic weapons from the Gendarmerie barracks at Etterbeek in 1981.
1986 = Travel records show he had been in Australia but left for overseas 27 days before the barracks burglary.
He does not appear to have been in Australia at the time of any known Brabant offences.
In 1986, when the Brabant offences stopped, he moved back to Australia to live permanently.


Frederick De Hedervaru- AH real birthdate


Frederick De Hedervary - MAY 2002 AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 8
(Also uses Ricky with family) and HedervEry on electrol Roll - AH real birthdate


Frederique / Frederike De-Haverdary - AH real birthdate


Gaetan Le Boursicot - October 1939


Guy Divio - 1 January 1901 ( WTActual ? This has to be a typo surely??!)


Philippe Dint - March 1937


Remy Lajoy - September 1938


Ric Blum- AH birthdate = AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 10


Rich Richard - AH BIRTHDATE - 7TH AUST PASSPORT - ISSUED IN AUSTRALIA FOR TRAVEL NOVEMBER 1999


Richard Lloyd West - 5TH PASSPORT ISSUED 1987 - AH BIRTHDATE
CHANGED TO THIS NAME AFTER 1986 WHEN HE RETURNS WITH WIFE FROM UK AND EUROPE


Richard Lloyd Westbury - 6th AUST PASSPORT - OBTAINED IN 1992 - AH BIRTHDATE


Rick Richard - as above


Rick West - as above


Roger Lazoney / Lauzoney - February 1945


Will / Willy Coppenolle - AH real birthdate


Willy David Coppenolle. - AH real birthdate - AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 9 IN 2011
(HAS THIS NAME LISTED ON A PHONE NUMBER = WILL DAVID COPPENOLLE)


Willy Wouters - BELGIUM issued passport NUMBER ONE - AH real birthdate = he has ONLY used this name once coming into Australia AND changed his name back to this in 1989


Wouters Willy - AH real birthdate


* MB FB page has also said he used De Hedervay - without the last R


Then theres :

David Coppenolle - THE NEIGHBOUR SAYS THIS NAME IN ANOTHER PASSPORT APPLICATION


Ricky David


Willy BOUTEN - from Monique


Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY - Drivers License


Chaim DE HEDERVARY


Chaim Frederick DAVID


Chaim David


Zabdiel Zillig - from Inquest

Fleming - LAST NAME - from NAA

Wilson - LAST NAME

Chusan - FIRST NAME
 
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Ooohm said:
If it’s the case that someone impersonating Marion came into Australia with her passport in August 1997, then that adds one more person who knows something about what happened to her. Maybe they don’t know everything but enough to contribute to the inquest. Interesting that no one came forward. If there is such a person then that guilt must hang around their neck like a heavy stone.

I am glad that Marion has been brought forward as a colourful human being, flaws and all. If she had been allowed to live her full life then it is reasonable to say that her relationships, particularly with Owen, would have improved. And she deserves to have the lion’s share of the attention.

The Nowhere Man is kind of boring to me, he is a type. I think deep down he knows his essence is unsubstantial. He even manufactures “rare” coins. He has to copy or steal anything of value because he can’t earn it genuinely. Not like Marion who earned her accolades and took the punches which came from being herself.
Click to expand...
IMO there are MANY more women - where are they. ??
Possibly dead, don't know about the case, a name he used hasn't been published, intimidated by attention to the case, family do not know and they are too embarrassed to come forward etc etc etc - all possibilities - But IMO we have only just scratched the tip of the iceberg.

We did hear of two? other women involved during the podcasts that have never really had much more airplay since.


I would like to think so too - that Marion's relationship with her kids improved hugely. I think every child wants that. But sometimes life has a weird way of defining family harmony and the realistic side is not always the fairytale side. That is another thing unfortunately that no one will ever know and the continued reality of victims in this case.

I am sure there are other children out there wondering what happened to their mother.
 
I am listening to the audiobook of TLV, and have just heard in chapter 8, what’s in a name. That when Sally was given the information about the name change to Florabella &c by Gary Sheehan, that there was information about the name change to a bank account. I didn’t know that, and had thought she had kept her bank accounts in the MB name.
 
mishy66 said:
ADDING THE PASSPORTS TO THE NAMES AND A FEW MORE NAMES I HAD ON MY LIST

Anthony Grech - July 1951


Atilla Dupont - date unknown


Bernard Dupont - March 1944


Charles Guyon - April 1947


Christopher Du Pont - March 1944


Christopher Stein - March 1944


David Freddy - February 1937 and June 1932


Fernand Nocolas Remakel - December 1947


Francis David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate


Franck Melan - September 1938


Freddy David- June 1942 - (also used Ricky)


Frederick David De Hedervary - 9 July 1939 - AH real birthdate - HIS 1ST Australian Passport
- travelled on that name in and out of Aust numerous times
THEN 2nd and 3rd AND 4TH RE-ISSUED PASSPORTS

1986 RETURNS TO AUSTRALIA AFTER LIVING OS WITH DIANE

***Newspaper report that he was OS when the Brabant offences occurred living in Luxembourg & Burwash. One of the earliest Brabant offences was the theft of automatic weapons from the Gendarmerie barracks at Etterbeek in 1981.
1986 = Travel records show he had been in Australia but left for overseas 27 days before the barracks burglary.
He does not appear to have been in Australia at the time of any known Brabant offences.
In 1986, when the Brabant offences stopped, he moved back to Australia to live permanently.


Frederick De Hedervaru- AH real birthdate


Frederick De Hedervary - MAY 2002 AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 8
(Also uses Ricky with family) and HedervEry on electrol Roll - AH real birthdate


Frederique / Frederike De-Haverdary - AH real birthdate


Gaetan Le Boursicot - October 1939


Guy Divio - 1 January 1901 ( WTActual ? This has to be a typo surely??!)


Philippe Dint - March 1937


Remy Lajoy - September 1938


Ric Blum- AH birthdate = AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 10


Rich Richard - AH BIRTHDATE - 7TH AUST PASSPORT - ISSUED IN AUSTRALIA FOR TRAVEL NOVEMBER 1999


Richard Lloyd West - 5TH PASSPORT ISSUED 1987 - AH BIRTHDATE
CHANGED TO THIS NAME AFTER 1986 WHEN HE RETURNS WITH WIFE FROM UK AND EUROPE


Richard Lloyd Westbury - 6th AUST PASSPORT - OBTAINED IN 1992 - AH BIRTHDATE


Rick Richard - as above


Rick West - as above


Roger Lazoney / Lauzoney - February 1945


Will / Willy Coppenolle - AH real birthdate


Willy David Coppenolle. - AH real birthdate - AUST PASSPORT NUMBER 9 IN 2011
(HAS THIS NAME LISTED ON A PHONE NUMBER = WILL DAVID COPPENOLLE)


Willy Wouters - BELGIUM issued passport NUMBER ONE - AH real birthdate = he has ONLY used this name once coming into Australia AND changed his name back to this in 1989


Wouters Willy - AH real birthdate


* MB FB page has also said he used De Hedervay - without the last R


Then theres :

David Coppenolle - THE NEIGHBOUR SAYS THIS NAME IN ANOTHER PASSPORT APPLICATION


Ricky David


Willy BOUTEN - from Monique


Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY - Drivers License


Chaim DE HEDERVARY


Chaim Frederick DAVID


Chaim David


Zabdiel Zillig - from Inquest

Fleming - LAST NAME - from NAA

Wilson - LAST NAME

Chusan - FIRST NAME
Click to expand...
Thanks for laying this out @mishy66. Really makes it difficult to believe that someone would want to make their life so complicated for no reason other than fantasy. Much more likely to be for the purposes of an industrial scale cover-up of fraud, deception and many other criminal deeds, IMO.
 
DerZuschauer said:
Hello,
sorry, who did you mean?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I will try and find the podcast

One was a woman who used a dating site I think it was and there was another way back in early podcast who the podcast team spoke of

I cant remember any details though. I will have to go back when I have some time.

Can anyone else recall these ?
 
Bibno said:
I am listening to the audiobook of TLV, and have just heard in chapter 8, what’s in a name. That when Sally was given the information about the name change to Florabella &c by Gary Sheehan, that there was information about the name change to a bank account. I didn’t know that, and had thought she had kept her bank accounts in the MB name.
Click to expand...
Yes , the book does mention a number of things that contradict SL investigations

Even one that says he introduced himself to Diane as FdeH on the Chusan. Maybe he did or maybe they just used what he said at the inquest.

If you believe Dianes testimony and the MB FB Page, she said he was WW when she met him but called him Ric because Fredy sounded like a frog in Australia.

So was he WW, FdeH or Fredy Wouters to Diane on the ship. He used FD alias so I'm banking he used that name with Diane.

Round and round in circles.

They use A LOT of his testimony at the inquest to tell the story. So a LOT of BS will be read by the public and believed.

Imagine the confusion to the general public here in Australia that have watched it all unfold in the newspapers, the inquest, the MB FB PAGE, LR podcast, TLV Podcast, the television segments and now a book which contradicts so much of what SL has uncovered with her team.

Sorry but I'm not a fan of AS as a journo. Very sloppy IMO
 
mishy66 said:
I will try and find the podcast

One was a woman who used a dating site I think it was and there was another way back in early podcast who the podcast team spoke of

I cant remember any details though. I will have to go back when I have some time.

Can anyone else recall these ?
Click to expand...
Didn’t GGB mention that there was another lady in Northern NSW, who he had scammed but who had since passed away (death was not related to the alleged scam) Maybe GGB found this out from the PI that she hired?
 
It would be interesting to know what the PI found out.
I don't believe anything DdeH says. Her whole evidence was just to obfuscate things. She'd have said he was calling himself Mickey Mouse if it meant muddying the waters even more to help save both their necks.
JMO
 
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CuriousKat99 said:
Didn’t GGB mention that there was another lady in Northern NSW, who he had scammed but who had since passed away (death was not related to the alleged scam) Maybe GGB found this out from the PI that she hired?
Click to expand...
Yes ! Thank you that was it.

So her and the woman from Sydney who was on the dating site.

2 more women

How many more!
 
Candytuft said:
It would be interesting to know what the PI found out.
I don't believe anything DdeH says. Her whole evidence was just to obfuscate things. She'd have said he was calling himself Mickey Mouse if it meant muddying the waters even more to help save both their necks.
JMO
Click to expand...
I dont believe her BS either.

I do think there's an eliminate of truth in him using the name Fredy David to her and then some time after he leaves and is arrested again as Willy Wouters in France, she would have to know him as WW if he wrote to her first with some *advertiser censored* and bull story about his new name change. Otherwise HOW could she address the letters to him and for that matter WHAT address did she use .....surely not the prison address.

IMO IF there was correspondence, she used his family address and they were passed on to him

Or the whole thing is another lie from her and they got reacquainted 3 yrs later after that first initial meeting on the ship with him posing as a photographer.

Maybe there was no correspondence and he just sought her out when he came back to Aust? My line of thinking.

I just cant imagine her family knowing he was in prison all that time and her waiting. And writing to him for 3 yrs....nah I cant see that at all.

And another section they said he stayed with Dianes family for 5 to 6 weeks
Well we all know that is also BS. Even the passenger cards refute this.

They use a LOT of his testimony so that makes it all as clear as mud.
 
I've started reading the book and am up to page 69 (Chapter 6, The Lady Vanishes) when Sally has rung the bank and found out $5000 increments (everyday) were withdrawn over three and a half weeks in Byron Bay. Also Sally was told of three occasions from Burleigh Heads on the Gold Coast.

Below is an old post (I cannot find the original post on WS) about bank procedures and Graeme Smith the Investigation Manager at CBA (since 1994). These comments are both interesting and alarming!

Staff are trained about customers withdrawing large amounts in small periods of time

Particularly it they went to the same teller time and time again, that would trigger an alert


#376 28June2021.png
 
Procrastinator said:
I've started reading the book and am up to page 69 (Chapter 6, The Lady Vanishes) when Sally has rung the bank and found out $5000 increments (everyday) were withdrawn over three and a half weeks in Byron Bay. Also Sally was told of three occasions from Burleigh Heads on the Gold Coast.

Below is an old post (I cannot find the original post on WS) about bank procedures and Graeme Smith the Investigation Manager at CBA (since 1994). These comments are both interesting and alarming!

Staff are trained about customers withdrawing large amounts in small periods of time

Particularly it they went to the same teller time and time again, that would trigger an alert


View attachment 509606
Click to expand...
Yes this was all laid out during the inquest
But as we know now, the bank didnt follow procedures

That must have been an old post before more information came to light
 
mishy66 said:
Yes this was all laid out during the inquest
But as we know now, the bank didnt follow procedures

That must have been an old post before more information came to light
Click to expand...
Regarding my previous post #54. Just looking at the Coroner's findings, page 33 (points 138 and 139) ... $500 a day was withdrawn from an ATM, and not $5000.
IMOO I don't think it was MB withdrawing $500 every day, someone else was making the withdrawals and then after three and half weeks they were over it, it was a taking too much time to do and no one was onto them, they got gutsy and withdrew the $80,000 somehow?!

 
Procrastinator said:
Regarding my previous post #54. Just looking at the Coroner's findings, page 33 (points 138 and 139) ... $500 a day was withdrawn from an ATM, and not $5000.
IMOO I don't think it was MB withdrawing $500 every day, someone else was making the withdrawals and then after three and half weeks they were over it, it was a taking too much time to do and no one was onto them, they got gutsy and withdrew the $80,000 somehow?!

Click to expand...
I think you will find that the original $500 a day was taken from the notes of Marions father at the time.
Then when Sally took over and looked into it all, it was actually $5000 being withdrawn.

Then the very last withdrawal was a transfer of $80K

The Coroners findings in some instances, were taken because of the initial police documentations and the notes given to S. Army - some of those findings don't add up to what Sally has found out.
 
And while we are all at the bank today.....

This is a great reminder about GGB case

She said that "Frederick" went to the bank by himself with her credit eftpos card , she had given him the PIN.
And he withdrew about $30K in five weeks. Each withdrawal was approximately $5K from inside the bank, not ATM.
So into the bank he walks, with a card and pin belonging to a woman whose surname is not the same as his and each time is allowed to withdraw $5 K from her account.
And the banks say they have policies in place..... IMO like ALL government establishments, they have "policies in place" when they get caught out and are subpoenaed to court
 
mishy66 said:
I think you will find that the original $500 a day was taken from the notes of Marions father at the time.
Then when Sally took over and looked into it all, it was actually $5000 being withdrawn.

Then the very last withdrawal was a transfer of $80K

The Coroners findings in some instances, were taken because of the initial police documentations and the notes given to S. Army - some of those findings don't add up to what Sally has found out.
Click to expand...
I can see multiples of $500 being withdrawn from an ATM no worries by anybody.
If it was $5000 withdrawn each day, then that would have to have been done at the counter of the bank. For that to happen over three and half weeks, IMOO something dodgy was going on at the bank.

Edited after seeing @mishy66 post#59
This is a great reminder about GGB case
She said that "Frederick" went to the bank by himself with her credit eftpos card , she had given him the PIN.
And he withdrew about $30K in five weeks. Each withdrawal was approximately $5K from inside the bank, not ATM.
So into the bank he walks, with a card and pin belonging to a woman whose surname is not the same as his and each time is allowed to withdraw $5 K from her account.
And the banks say they have policies in place..... IMO like ALL government establishments, they have "policies in place" when they get caught out and are subpoenaed to court

I don't know ... dodgy bank or no policies in place, banks ugh!! What a total mess.
 
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