UK The Mystery of 'Bible John,' Scotland's Zodiac Killer

[Richard]

The Scottish Serial Killer known as "Bible John" killed at least three women between February 1968 and October 1969. Each victim was picked up at the Barrowland Ballroom in a poor quarter of Glasgow, Scotland.

Patricia Docker, 25, was the first victim. Her body was found, naked, in the door recess of a lock-up garage the night of 22 February 1968.

Jemima "Mima" McDonald, 32, was found partly clothed and strangled in a derelict tenement.

Helen Puttock, 29, was the third known victim. Her fully clothed body was found leaning against a wall in October 1969.

Hellen Puttock's sister, Jeannie, had once spoken to Bible John and recalled him as a six foot tall man between 25 and 30 with nicely barbered red hair. He was a smoker but did not drink liquor. He liked to quote sexual and other passages from the Bible - hence his nickname.

He was never identified.

Sources:

"Bible John" by Charles N. Stoddard, Paul Harris Publishing (1980)

"The Who's Who of Unsolved Murders" by James Morton (1994)

 

[AC4RD]

How would he have known that each woman was on their period? ... He could have hit on many women looking for someone on their period and married.

Just a thought, but perhaps he met a dozen women at the ballroom and had a quickie in the alley with nine of them. And the other three said (to quote the Stones) "baby better come back very next week / 'cause you see I'm on a losing streak." Bible John got angry at those three and killed in rage, perhaps. Just a possibility, perhaps.

 

[Marulinka]

Just a thought, but perhaps he met a dozen women at the ballroom and had a quickie in the alley with nine of them. And the other three said (to quote the Stones) "baby better come back very next week / 'cause you see I'm on a losing streak." Bible John got angry at those three and killed in rage, perhaps. Just a possibility, perhaps.

But then wouldnt some of these women come forward as witnesses?

 

[AC4RD]

But then wouldnt some of these women come forward as witnesses?

Good point. On the odds, at least a few of them would have noticed that the guy was weird. I think you're right.

 

[Ched]

BBC 2 now 9pm

 

[Littlegreenlady]

But then wouldnt some of these women come forward as witnesses?

But in the BBC documentary, and other podcasts, they all say that the Barrowlands was known for illicit liaisons. It might well be that some women did have a quickie in the alley with him, but if they were married, they wouldn't have wanted to come forward to have said anything. Even if the women weren't married, society didn't look too kindly on women who may have decided to have sex with someone they met that night, so wouldn't have wanted to bring any attention to their behaviour

 

[SaintGertrude]

I was reading the recent article and wondered if he could have lived on communities like the Jesus Army who had a base in Glasgow. I need to check when they were founded. I think a serial killer possibly Tobin hid with them for a while.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bible-johns-true-identity-eerie-25841549

 

[SaintGertrude]

I was reading the recent article and wondered if he could have lived on communities like the Jesus Army who had a base in Glasgow. I need to check when they were founded. I think a serial killer possibly Tobin hid with them for a while.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bible-johns-true-identity-eerie-25841549

This is the Tobin article but I wouldn't be surprised if other criminals hid there. They had a big farm in Northamptonshire called New Creation farm and lots of the members were ex criminals or those who found it hard to fit into the mainstream way of life. Murderer Tobin link to Warwickshire Jesus Army

 

[SaintGertrude]

Sad as it is because I stayed with them for weekends in my early 20's this may have been going on in the background and there may have been people like bible John hiding in plain sight for all we know. All I can say is that I didn't witness any of what I am about to share but did meet a fair few people who were ex convicts. Jesus Army sex scandal: The dark secrets of life in a commune

 

[SaintGertrude]

So we know that Bible John killed three women and then the killings stopped. There are a number of explanations including that he was doing time for other crimes, deceased or left the country. Another idea is that he may have worked in a hospital and turned to abusing corpses in the same way as murderer David Fuller did. Bible John told one of the witnesses who met him that he worked in a laboratory.
Another explanation that he got married and used domestic violence to vent whatever was driving him. What do other people think may have happened.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Each murdered woman had her sanitary towel or tampon placed upon, beneath, or near her body.
Bible John - Wikipedia

 

[AC4RD]

Each murdered woman had her sanitary towel or tampon placed upon, beneath, or near her body.
Bible John - Wikipedia

I recall from college that many "primitive" societies had taboos involving menstruation; I think some Pacific groups required woment to live apart from the group during that time of the month. And anecdotally I think a lot of men even today in the USA are uncomfortable with the process--witness many comedians' jokes about having to buy sanitary products for their wives. (I'll confess to being uncomfortable with that, when I was much younger.)

I'm guessing "Bible John" is one case that will never really be solved--JMHO, of course.

 

[Alyce]

Tobin was on honeymoon in Brighton when Jemima was murdered.




Theory that Peter Tobin could be Bible John is a non-starter for many reasons

 

[Kasmeer]

BBC iPlayer - The Hunt for Bible John - Series 1: Episode 1 - that was a very interesting documentary, it's a case I didn't really know anything about other than the theory that it was Peter Tobin, which has been widely repeated... and apparently was totally wrong!

Interesting to hear the DNA has been tested against him, after seeing mentions earlier in the thread that it was too deteriorated to work with; perhaps modern techniques have managed to make it usable again? It would be by far the best chance of ever solving this (or at least, Helen Puttock's murder, given there's little evidence beyond the similarities as to whether all three were committed by the same person - however likely it may appear, I think it's too late to prove the others), even if it ends up being one of those cases where familial DNA leads to a long-deceased murderer.

 

[AcbMurders]

Son of Bible John Victim begs police to relaunch Helen Puttock murder probe

David Puttock has flown from his home in Canada in his fight for justice to catch the killer.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[Grouse]

I''m part way through listening to the BBC podcast series on this and from what I've heard so far the biblical connection really does not sound very strong. Unless I've missed something it seems to be based on him being asked about if he supported Rangers or Celtic and he apparently said "neither, I'm agnostic". Given the religious aspects around football in Glasgow it's a comment anyone not into the footie might have made.

 

[dotr]

New suspect in Scotland's infamous Bible John murder case identified through DNA

Former printer John Templeton, who died in 2015 aged 70, has been named as the alleged killer of Helen Puttock, one of three woman murdered in Glasgow in the 60s

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

By Norman Silvester 16 JUN 2024

Helen Puttock murder victim Bible John (Image: Sunday Mail)
''A new lead has emerged in the lurid Scottish Bible John killings as a fresh suspect is named, identified through DNA.

The man connected to the notorious cold case is former printer, John Templeton, who is suspected of being the murderer of Helen Puttock, one among three women brutally ended in Glasgow during the '60s.

John Templeton, having passed away in 2015 at the age of 70, was implicated following an investigation which revealed both family ties and a shared DNA profile with prior prime suspect, John Irvine McInnes. This spotlighting of Templeton was propelled by Australian author Jill Bavin-Mizzi's ground-breaking book that probed the 55 year old case; Bavin-Mizzi's probe brought to light significant evidence suggesting Templeton - scrutinised by the original murder squad - could well be the infamous killer.''

John Templeton (Image: No credit)

Artist impression of Bible John May 1980 (Image: No credit)

 

[gregjrichards]

New suspect in Scotland's infamous Bible John murder case identified through DNA

Former printer John Templeton, who died in 2015 aged 70, has been named as the alleged killer of Helen Puttock, one of three woman murdered in Glasgow in the 60s

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

By Norman Silvester 16 JUN 2024
View attachment 510770
Helen Puttock murder victim Bible John (Image: Sunday Mail)
''A new lead has emerged in the lurid Scottish Bible John killings as a fresh suspect is named, identified through DNA.

The man connected to the notorious cold case is former printer, John Templeton, who is suspected of being the murderer of Helen Puttock, one among three women brutally ended in Glasgow during the '60s.

John Templeton, having passed away in 2015 at the age of 70, was implicated following an investigation which revealed both family ties and a shared DNA profile with prior prime suspect, John Irvine McInnes. This spotlighting of Templeton was propelled by Australian author Jill Bavin-Mizzi's ground-breaking book that probed the 55 year old case; Bavin-Mizzi's probe brought to light significant evidence suggesting Templeton - scrutinised by the original murder squad - could well be the infamous killer.''
View attachment 510772
John Templeton (Image: No credit)
View attachment 510771
Artist impression of Bible John May 1980 (Image: No credit)

He really looks a lot like the artist’s impression. I wish he was still alive, that Helen’s Sister Jean was alive to see the photo of him, and he had been put in a line after he had been questioned. Hopefully, detectives will do DNA testing on the items he left behind.

 

[dotr]

June 16 '24 rbbm

Mystery of serial killer murders may be solved after DNA breakthrough

An author has put forward their suspect in the Bible John murders in Glasgow in 1968 and 1969. Three women, all mothers, were tragically killed, but a killer was never found

www.mirror.co.uk

''McInnes, a soldier from Stonehouse, Lanarkshire, was interviewed about Helen’s murder in 1969 but was ruled out as a suspect. He died in 1980 having taken his own life.

McInnes’ body was exhumed from Stonehouse Cemetery in 1996, and DNA taken from Helen’s clothes had some comparisons to McInnes’ siblings, but a conclusive match was not found''.

 

[Susikatze]

June 16 '24 rbbm

Mystery of serial killer murders may be solved after DNA breakthrough

An author has put forward their suspect in the Bible John murders in Glasgow in 1968 and 1969. Three women, all mothers, were tragically killed, but a killer was never found

www.mirror.co.uk

View attachment 510817
''McInnes, a soldier from Stonehouse, Lanarkshire, was interviewed about Helen’s murder in 1969 but was ruled out as a suspect. He died in 1980 having taken his own life.

McInnes’ body was exhumed from Stonehouse Cemetery in 1996, and DNA taken from Helen’s clothes had some comparisons to McInnes’ siblings, but a conclusive match was not found''.

Ok so i hope they kept a sample and can do better DNA testing now. In 1996 they only did yDNA and MtDNA, which is extremely insufficient for ID.