VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[kittythehare]

Maybe the car blocked the camera view of neighbor across the street? Obviously they wouldn’t want to be caught on camera moving a body. I’ve always found it highly suspic that the neighbor reviewed his footage, deemed it “not useful”, and erased it. His camera view absolutely should have caught KR backing into JO. Clearly it didn’t or he wouldn’t have erased it.

True. It wasn't like it was a busy highway with lots of passing traffic.

 

[TTF14]

Maybe the car blocked the camera view of neighbor across the street? Obviously they wouldn’t want to be caught on camera moving a body. I’ve always found it highly suspic that the neighbor reviewed his footage, deemed it “not useful”, and erased it. His camera view absolutely should have caught KR backing into JO. Clearly it didn’t or he wouldn’t have erased it.

I don't remember hearing that about him erasing the footage because he thought it wasn't useful. Isn't the neighbor also law enforcement?

 

[kittythehare]

Interesting. I'm sure the Alberts and McCabes are hoping someone exactly like you is on the jury. Or, 12 of you actually. I respectfully disagree with everything you have said here. Snow plow drivers have to be on high alert for things like vehicles, etc. being in the street when they are not supposed to be in a snow emergency. I'd guess it's a crucial part of their training and retraining. I don't see what color blindness has to do with behind able to see a six foot dark blob in the white snow....


IMO MOO

Colour blindness merely pertains to the recognition of shades of colour.
We discussed this before.
Lucky actually discussed the brightness of his lights... link below

 

[keek]

Maybe the car blocked the camera view of neighbor across the street? Obviously they wouldn’t want to be caught on camera moving a body. I’ve always found it highly suspic that the neighbor reviewed his footage, deemed it “not useful”, and erased it. His camera view absolutely should have caught KR backing into JO. Clearly it didn’t or he wouldn’t have erased it.

That neighbor was also a Canton PD employee, I believe a former chief. SO..

 

[OldCop]

It doesn’t make sense to me that the car would be there to block what was going on. That really only works if someone is looking at the car dead on. But anyone coming up the road from either direction and looking from an angle would have full view (see pic). My thought is that maybe they were planning to move JO but because of Lucky seeing the car, the blizzard or some other reason they abandoned the plan..?
View attachment 514596

Good point about a possible plan to move the body. If the Edge was one of the unmarked police vehicles, I bet they thought no one would be searching that car. I think visibility was very poor. They may have heard the loud plows and saw their headlights and knew they were plowing that neighborhood and didn’t want to take the chance of moving him. As the storm became more intense, perhaps they decided to leave the vehicle where it was until the snow provided a covering for the body.
I don’t think there was any murder plan that night. Because the blood from John’s head wound ran down the back of his shirt, he was either upright for a bit or he was propped up for a time. Medical experts defined the head wound as lethal and the skull fracture as almost immediately debilitating. If an accident happened in the home, perhaps concurrent with an attack by Chloe, could John have stumbled outside and collapsed in the snow where he was found? Or, could the drunks in the house have propped him up to see if they could revive him and when they realized he was too far gone brought him out and laid him where he was found? If anyone was the least bit culpable they did not want him found in the house. They were all in some stages of intoxication. Judgement is clouded. Stupid plans are formed.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I thought the snow plow driver's testimony was basically worthless.

I don't believe he saw a Ford Edge in front of 34 at the time he said. He may have been lying or he may have confused it with something he saw on another street or at another time. To the best of my knowledge there wasn't even a shred of evidence presented to show that he was even on that street at the time he said. He may not have seen a body on the lawn, but I don't believe he knows one wasn't there. I don't believe he is some special plow driver that sees all and is super observant. Anyone in MA knows plow drivers hit stuff all the time... mailboxes... trash cans... cars... whatever. Heck, this guy even hit a basketball hoop that night. He is color blind. He was up on the stand struggling with his glasses - you can say neither of those things matter... but I'm also going to dispute with anyone that 40+ year olds with a visual impairment and glasses see like hawks in the night.

If you doubt me... consider how dark it was... consider what a body with a bit of snow covering it even partially looks like. You don't know? There are countless images from the war in Ukraine and you can see even a dusting of snow on a body is like natural camoflauge.

I think the defense knew he wasn't the best witness. As I said above, they didn't put any effort into corroborating his story... but they probably figured if there was a chance he might cause pause in one juror, it was worth it.

Modern city/regional snow plows have sophisticated GPS technology in them, where dispatchers/controllers can track their every move. Controllers know exactly where their fleet is at any given time because of GPS. The CW chose not to corroborate Lucky's story by calling in a representative of the city/region to speak to this - or maybe they did interview them and realized Lucky was truthful.

Lucky also stated he had bright lighting all around his plow where it lit up the entire area, so it wouldn't have been dark for him. Workers remember snow storms, especially ones described as blizzard conditions. They talk about them for months and years later and they're able to recall strange things out of place when weather events happen because it's not the norm.

If that vehicle had been parked on the street, Lucky would have had to go around it with his plow, leaving a bank of snow far out in the middle of the road surrounding that truck. Since that was his last pass before LE arrived, that mound of snow should have still been in the roadway when they arrived. But it wasn't noted as standing out as far as I can tell.

When LE arrived around 06:00 (?), the first officer testified there was only a light dusting of snow on the body, even though people testified there was about 6 inches of snow that had fallen overnight. Maybe the women had dusted off some of the snow from his body when they arrived, but if the snow hadn't begun to fall until close to midnight like some stated, and 6 inches of snow fell on the ground before morning, then why wasn't there 6 inches of snow on top of JOK if he had been laying out there since 12:30sh.

MOO.

 

[Addicted2Crime]

how connected are all the other towns and villages in the area. Would they all have heard about it?

I live in MA but I’m further north closer to the NH border and I only recently started following this case. I remember hearing her name as the trial crept up but I never really knew much to be honest even though it makes me sound like I live under a rock lol.

 

[kittythehare]

I live in MA but I’m further north closer to the NH border and I only recently started following this case. I remember hearing her name as the trial crept up but I never really knew much to be honest even though it makes me sound like I live under a rock lol.

I was mentally trying to compare it to my country where there are lots of small towns and villages and wondering whether I would have heard of it, figuring I probably would have cos scandal..

 

[OldCop]

The jury intimidation/ scare mongering going on in this trial is insane and quite disgusting.

Its not how the process is supposed to go.

I wouldn't want to be a juror on this case for a million bucks.
well OK...maybe I would for a million bucks

It was the Albert, McCabe stare down straight across the room to the jury box in court that really bothered me. It was the town bullies trying to intimidate the jury; just like CA did on that video to a rival hockey team. “I’m gonna f you up!”

 

[jepop]

I still haven't given up on a Monday NG verdict.

I'll ride that train with you. I'm imagining scenes in the jury room of 10 or 11 NGs breaking through the barriers with use of a white board. Then meditation exercises designed to clear the mind of tail light shards and instead sadly focus on the bruiseless body of the victim. Pointless to repeat it but I will anyway; this case should never have made it to trial and the jurors placed in this position. moo

 

[OldCop]

Maybe the car blocked the camera view of neighbor across the street? Obviously they wouldn’t want to be caught on camera moving a body. I’ve always found it highly suspic that the neighbor reviewed his footage, deemed it “not useful”, and erased it. His camera view absolutely should have caught KR backing into JO. Clearly it didn’t or he wouldn’t have erased it.

Wasn’t that the house of the Assistant Chief of Canton PD? Not saying there was anything nefarious here, but 100 coinky dinks in one case is a bit much for me. I usually don’t tolerate one.

 

[kittythehare]

It was the Albert, McCabe stare down straight across the room to the jury box in court that really bothered me. It was the town bullies trying to intimidate the jury; just like CA did on that video to a rival hockey team. “I’m gonna f you up!”

Yes and that is exactly how Jackson described it to a journalist when questioned after the trial that day..
Intimidation.
Despicable.
I never thought they would dare.

 

[jepop]

trying to figger what time the vehicle was blocking, think it was 2.30am time..

Around 3.30 from memory. ICBW but it wasn't there at 2.45 when he passed 34 F heading back towards cedar crest after first pass towards Chapman. Lucky first saw the edge from cedar crest after that 2.45 pass IIRC. I think I'm going to have to relisten to his testimony though as I'm also recalling him stating he drove around the ford edge on Fairview on a second pass up and down the street and can't recall what time that was meant to be. Could be mixing this up with something else though so will definitely re-listen as mind is blanking out. jmo

 

[kittythehare]

Around 3.30 from memory. ICBW but it wasn't there at 2.45 when he passed 34 F heading back towards cedar crest after first pass towards Chapman. Lucky first saw the edge from cedar crest after that 2.45 pass IIRC. I think I'm going to have to relisten to his testimony though as I'm also recalling him stating he drove around the ford edge on Fairview on a second pass up and down the street and can't recall what time that was meant to be. Could be mixing this up with something else though so will definitely re-listen as mind is blanking out. jmo

 

[jepop]

Interesting kittyhare…… and I am not certain or have recollection or recall, but if so isn’t that also real close to the time of the search ‘hos long to…. in the…… ’. IIRC wasn’t there some indication that search was ~2:27 am or thereabouts?

Granted there was also considerable debate about that browser window time when opened / viewed I believe? MOO

I was pretty sure it was first noticed between 3 and 3.30 per testimony but I'm going to rewatch Luckys testimony shortly. I think I could be completely mixed up!

 

[jepop]

Did you rewatch it?

 

[kittythehare]

Did you rewatch it?

lots of times and watching it again now..

 

[RANCH]

Modern city/regional snow plows have sophisticated GPS technology in them, where dispatchers/controllers can track their every move. Controllers know exactly where their fleet is at any given time because of GPS. The CW chose not to corroborate Lucky's story by calling in a representative of the city/region to speak to this - or maybe they did interview them and realized Lucky was truthful.

Lucky also stated he had bright lighting all around his plow where it lit up the entire area, so it wouldn't have been dark for him. Workers remember snow storms, especially ones described as blizzard conditions. They talk about them for months and years later and they're able to recall strange things out of place when weather events happen because it's not the norm.

If that vehicle had been parked on the street, Lucky would have had to go around it with his plow, leaving a bank of snow far out in the middle of the road surrounding that truck. Since that was his last pass before LE arrived, that mound of snow should have still been in the roadway when they arrived. But it wasn't noted as standing out as far as I can tell.

When LE arrived around 06:00 (?), the first officer testified there was only a light dusting of snow on the body, even though people testified there was about 6 inches of snow that had fallen overnight. Maybe the women had dusted off some of the snow from his body when they arrived, but if the snow hadn't begun to fall until close to midnight like some stated, and 6 inches of snow fell on the ground before morning, then why wasn't there 6 inches of snow on top of JOK if he had been laying out there since 12:30sh.

MOO.

You claim that modern city snow plows in the United States have GPS systems.

Maybe a link for Lucky's snow plow having it would be helpful for this discussion. JMO.

 

[OldCop]

Modern city/regional snow plows have sophisticated GPS technology in them, where dispatchers/controllers can track their every move. Controllers know exactly where their fleet is at any given time because of GPS. The CW chose not to corroborate Lucky's story by calling in a representative of the city/region to speak to this - or maybe they did interview them and realized Lucky was truthful.

Lucky also stated he had bright lighting all around his plow where it lit up the entire area, so it wouldn't have been dark for him. Workers remember snow storms, especially ones described as blizzard conditions. They talk about them for months and years later and they're able to recall strange things out of place when weather events happen because it's not the norm.

If that vehicle had been parked on the street, Lucky would have had to go around it with his plow, leaving a bank of snow far out in the middle of the road surrounding that truck. Since that was his last pass before LE arrived, that mound of snow should have still been in the roadway when they arrived. But it wasn't noted as standing out as far as I can tell.

When LE arrived around 06:00 (?), the first officer testified there was only a light dusting of snow on the body, even though people testified there was about 6 inches of snow that had fallen overnight. Maybe the women had dusted off some of the snow from his body when they arrived, but if the snow hadn't begun to fall until close to midnight like some stated, and 6 inches of snow fell on the ground before morning, then why wasn't there 6 inches of snow on top of JOK if he had been laying out there since 12:30sh.

MOO.

Didn’t the 911 caller state the following when JOK was found that morning,
“…a man unresponsive in the snow,” the 911 caller is heard saying. “…We just flipped him over.

Jurors hear 911 call, additional testimony as Karen Read murder trial continues - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

DEDHAM, MASS. (WHDH) - Jurors heard a 911 call for help Monday as the closely-watched Karen Read murder trial entered its second week of testimony. Three<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/jurors-hear-911-call-additional-testimony-as-karen-read-murder-trial-continues/">Read...

whdh.com

 

[OldCop]

Yes and that is exactly how Jackson described it to a journalist when questioned after the trial that day..
Intimidation.
Despicable.
I never thought they would dare.

It just shows how arrogant that whole crew is.