Agreed. The only thought I have that conflicts with that is intentional planting of evidence of all 3 Ramseys to avoid prosecution. Who do you try in court? Isn't that essentially what happened? And I believe they had help with how to convolute a crime scene. I think that would have been found out in phone records.
Agree for sure. I think phone records would have solved this. A trial will never happen with this case because one suspect is dead, one can't be tried at all, and the whole crime scene was compromised by friends being there and the cops allowing everyone to wander around. The only thing left is phone records (if the cops even bothered to obtain them) and knowing who the R's called before 911.
It is my understanding that FW admitted to wiping JB during his party on the 25th.
It is possible she went to the bathroom more than once at FW's. I totally believe the R's covered up their own crime(s). The sweater or robe fibers being there may or may not be evidence since it's normal from JB to be wiped after toileting. If I recall one of the housekeepers stated the kids hygiene wasn't that great so who knows when JB last had a decent bath. So fibers from parents clothes could be there from the day before or whenever. To me the parents clothing fibers are not exactly earth shattering definitive evidence. If it was BR fibers that would be earth shattering evidence.
I totally get it. I am on board with everything you say. I just think there is some reasonable doubt in fibers from the parents. Also for as much as the BPD supposedly had "tunnel vision" according to the R's, they sure didn't investigate things to the fullest extent did they? That every BPD interview with PR she doesn't seem to know or recognize anything from their house that she is asked about. You suppose those pajamas disappeared??Maybe this then:
Sure, he could have wiped her at the party since she was zonked out when they arrived home and never woke up. That is their story anyways. So, there shouldn’t be his robe fibers. But I also recall in the beginning reading that FW admitted to wiping her that night at the party. After all, he did babysit the kids as did MA, and DP; just saying.
Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.
Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?
Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed
Patterson: Ok
Burke: So
Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?
Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy
"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit
By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.
PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.
Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.
Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.
BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.
We do not know that the BPD failed to investigate this case fully. The brakes were put on before the police even arrived that morning. This case won’t be prosecuted as the true bills handed done should have taken care of that.
They may or may not have been fully investigated. Taking into account the scene contamination by the family, friends, and plethora of cops going in an out of the house. There was more than enough contamination by all to make it impossible to investigate. I get the contamination by friends was part of the R's plan. The plethora of cops going in and out contaminating the scene more could have also been by R design, but I tend to lean towards police stupidity here. It is hard to investigate fully when you have to constantly make sure evidence wasn't just contamination by the all police. Honestly the R's bringing friends in to contaminate the scene now becomes part of the crime scene. Police should have already known the fewer the better on evidence collection. Every single member of that family was part of this horrible act, and the 2 still alive will never be charged or punished for it. Nor will the the people who aided and abetted the R's cover up.
We cannot forget about the victim advocates who cleaned up the kitchen. I believe the friends stayed in the sunroom and/or den with PR. FW followed JR around; except for that missing hour and a half JR is unaccounted for? Which was did he go, folks?
Could Patty's fibers gotten there in an attempt to undo the ligature?. If either parent found JB, my thought as a parent would be apon finding JB they would try to reverse the harm done to her.
Those fibers were not an exact match as PR didn’t turn over her jacket until she had time to go buy another one off the rack like it.
BR told police that he had two Swiss Army knives. One was bigger than the other and had more gadgets, and had his name on it along with where it came from, Switzerland. It was reported that two knives were found in the basement by police. One has been described as either a paring knife or a pocket knife with its handle made of wood, it was red and it had a purple ornament that had been broken off. This knife was reported as being found on a countertop near the sink in the laundry room that was located in the basement. But just to confuse the situation, it was also reported that it was found on a countertop in the laundry room near JB's room. And to muddle the waters even further, it has been reported that it was BR's Swiss Army knife that was found on the countertop.
I'm trying to bold the last part of your post, and I can't.
If you haven't already, I suggest you check out Meara's thread "Spade's Lawyering Theory from Forum for Justice". It's an eye opener as to all the powerful connections and relationships that were at play in this case.
I have a hard time ignoring the housekeepers discovery of the kids playing doctor as it was on more than one occasion . Before I make the leap to JR, I can't overlook that both kids were accessable to other adults through pageants and Scouting. BR was seeing a psychiatrist. Most think,including myself, that it was due to behavior issues but what if it was due to trauma that he experienced at the hands of another?
I don't think we know for a fact that Burke was seeing a psychiatrist prior to the murder, do we? His medical records were sealed, which in and of itself is a tad suspicious to me. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but is that reliably sourced somewhere? I am aware of a psychiatrist in Atlanta.
I will need to go back and locate but JR mentions BR seeing a psychiatrist who prescribed medication for PR I believe. It couldn't have been a therapist as they can't write scripts. You bring up a good point regarding neglect. I think children who are neglected fall prey easier to abusers. Remember BRs interview where he got very animated about the press looking for him at school?
Yes, BR did get very animated and excited about the press attention. In a more normal situation I too would find this odd given the circumstances that it surrounded the death of his sister. I do think it underscores that he felt she got all the attention and this is a sign that bothered him. I also recall the drawing he made not that long after the murder, and it was just him and his parents, no JonBenet. He moved on very quickly from her death. And while I don't think he hated her, I do think that he resented her presence. When she came along the attention shifted from him to her. John was not around much and even when he was, he was preoccupied by work. I also think he was emotionally distant. Patsy was very preoccupied with the pageant stuff and everything else she had her hands into. The house was neglected and so was Burke. It feels like he may have felt a sense of relief that she was gone, and that now things could return to "normal", as it was before she came along.
