John Ramsey: Knots, Knowledge, and Know-how.

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Same as JR, he could have wiped her after toileting earlier in the day as well. The parents fibers being there seems more plausible to be there because she still needed others to wipe her after toileting. What would be more telling would be I it was fibers from BR clothes. Sometimes you have weed out the noise of what would be there because of routine. I recall hearing she asked whoever was close to wipe her.

Agreed. The only thought I have that conflicts with that is intentional planting of evidence of all 3 Ramseys to avoid prosecution. Who do you try in court? Isn't that essentially what happened? And I believe they had help with how to convolute a crime scene. I think that would have been found out in phone records.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Agreed. The only thought I have that conflicts with that is intentional planting of evidence of all 3 Ramseys to avoid prosecution. Who do you try in court? Isn't that essentially what happened? And I believe they had help with how to convolute a crime scene. I think that would have been found out in phone records.

Agree for sure. I think phone records would have solved this. A trial will never happen with this case because one suspect is dead, one can't be tried at all, and the whole crime scene was compromised by friends being there and the cops allowing everyone to wander around. The only thing left is phone records (if the cops even bothered to obtain them) and knowing who the R's called before 911.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Same as JR, he could have wiped her after toileting earlier in the day as well. The parents fibers being there seems more plausible to be there because she still needed others to wipe her after toileting. What would be more telling would be I it was fibers from BR clothes. Sometimes you have weed out the noise of what would be there because of routine. I recall hearing she asked whoever was close to wipe her.

It is my understanding that FW admitted to wiping JB during his party on the 25th.
JR was gone all day on the 25th and arrived home later to tell the kids to stop riding bikes and get cleaned up.
So why would the sweater that JR wore that night to the party be found on JB labia? He wiped her at some point. So here is the thing: she was wiped down that night during the murder and after the SA with a dark blue item. JR robe was dark blue but nothing else was ever reported to have been found. That really isn’t a surprise since this crime was a complete coverup. Sort of like Marilyn Monroe. And according to the parents JB was zonked out cold when she arrived home that night.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

It is my understanding that FW admitted to wiping JB during his party on the 25th.
JR was gone all day on the 25th and arrived home later to tell the kids to stop riding bikes and get cleaned up.
So why would the sweater that JR wore that night to the party be found on JB labia? He wiped her at some point. So here is the thing: she was wiped down that night during the murder and after the SA with a dark blue item. JR robe was dark blue but nothing else was ever reported to have been found. That really isn’t a surprise since this crime was a complete coverup. Sort of like Marilyn Monroe. And according to the parents JB was zonked out cold when she arrived home that night.

It is possible she went to the bathroom more than once at FW's. I totally believe the R's covered up their own crime(s). The sweater or robe fibers being there may or may not be evidence since it's normal from JB to be wiped after toileting. If I recall one of the housekeepers stated the kids hygiene wasn't that great so who knows when JB last had a decent bath. So fibers from parents clothes could be there from the day before or whenever. To me the parents clothing fibers are not exactly earth shattering definitive evidence. If it was BR fibers that would be earth shattering evidence.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

It is possible she went to the bathroom more than once at FW's. I totally believe the R's covered up their own crime(s). The sweater or robe fibers being there may or may not be evidence since it's normal from JB to be wiped after toileting. If I recall one of the housekeepers stated the kids hygiene wasn't that great so who knows when JB last had a decent bath. So fibers from parents clothes could be there from the day before or whenever. To me the parents clothing fibers are not exactly earth shattering definitive evidence. If it was BR fibers that would be earth shattering evidence.

If it was BR fibers that would be earth shattering evidence.

Maybe this then:
Sure, he could have wiped her at the party since she was zonked out when they arrived home and never woke up. That is their story anyways. So, there shouldn’t be his robe fibers. But I also recall in the beginning reading that FW admitted to wiping her that night at the party. After all, he did babysit the kids as did MA, and DP; just saying.

Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?

Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed

Patterson: Ok

Burke: So

Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?

Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit

By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.


PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.

Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.

Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Maybe this then:
Sure, he could have wiped her at the party since she was zonked out when they arrived home and never woke up. That is their story anyways. So, there shouldn’t be his robe fibers. But I also recall in the beginning reading that FW admitted to wiping her that night at the party. After all, he did babysit the kids as did MA, and DP; just saying.

Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?

Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed

Patterson: Ok

Burke: So

Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?

Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit

By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.


PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.

Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.

Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

I totally get it. I am on board with everything you say. I just think there is some reasonable doubt in fibers from the parents. Also for as much as the BPD supposedly had "tunnel vision" according to the R's, they sure didn't investigate things to the fullest extent did they? That every BPD interview with PR she doesn't seem to know or recognize anything from their house that she is asked about. You suppose those pajamas disappeared??

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I totally get it. I am on board with everything you say. I just think there is some reasonable doubt in fibers from the parents. Also for as much as the BPD supposedly had "tunnel vision" according to the R's, they sure didn't investigate things to the fullest extent did they? That every BPD interview with PR she doesn't seem to know or recognize anything from their house that she is asked about. You suppose those pajamas disappeared??

We do not know that the BPD failed to investigate this case fully. The brakes were put on before the police even arrived that morning. This case won’t be prosecuted as the true bills handed done should have taken care of that.

As for BR (he simply knew too much) about what happened to JB before the autopsy report was released for him to not be involved. I am sure his pajama bottoms are in the vault along with all the other items in this case.

IMO, all three people in the house that night contributed to JB demise.

As for the dna on the underwear and long Johns it could just be a matter of transference. After all there were those cotton glove fibers found on JB clothing.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

We do not know that the BPD failed to investigate this case fully. The brakes were put on before the police even arrived that morning. This case won’t be prosecuted as the true bills handed done should have taken care of that.

As for BR (he simply knew too much) about what happened to JB before the autopsy report was released for him to not be involved. I am sure his pajama bottoms are in the vault along with all the other items in this case.

IMO, all three people in the house that night contributed to JB demise.

As for the dna on the underwear and long Johns it could just be a matter of transference. After all there were those cotton glove fibers found on JB clothing.

They may or may not have been fully investigated. Taking into account the scene contamination by the family, friends, and plethora of cops going in an out of the house. There was more than enough contamination by all to make it impossible to investigate. I get the contamination by friends was part of the R's plan. The plethora of cops going in and out contaminating the scene more could have also been by R design, but I tend to lean towards police stupidity here. It is hard to investigate fully when you have to constantly make sure evidence wasn't just contamination by the all police. Honestly the R's bringing friends in to contaminate the scene now becomes part of the crime scene. Police should have already known the fewer the better on evidence collection. Every single member of that family was part of this horrible act, and the 2 still alive will never be charged or punished for it. Nor will the the people who aided and abetted the R's cover up.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

They may or may not have been fully investigated. Taking into account the scene contamination by the family, friends, and plethora of cops going in an out of the house. There was more than enough contamination by all to make it impossible to investigate. I get the contamination by friends was part of the R's plan. The plethora of cops going in and out contaminating the scene more could have also been by R design, but I tend to lean towards police stupidity here. It is hard to investigate fully when you have to constantly make sure evidence wasn't just contamination by the all police. Honestly the R's bringing friends in to contaminate the scene now becomes part of the crime scene. Police should have already known the fewer the better on evidence collection.

We cannot forget about the victim advocates who cleaned up the kitchen. I believe the friends stayed in the sunroom and/or den with PR. FW followed JR around; except for that missing hour and a half JR is unaccounted for? Which was did he go, folks?

Sure, the police that were assigned to the case worked in different fields. This does not explain away the fact that it is simple police procedure to secure a crime scene. So we have to ask ourselves why the police handled this case so differently? Then we can question those missing phone records.
The leaking of the BPD information straight into the DA’s office.
Also remember, the wine cellar was secured on the outside after JB was found there. Why was PP allowed to make a sweep of the home? Loading the police cruiser to the brim and then having them take her to get a burger meal and they paid for it? The R’s walked out of their home and into a home of other friends. Why didn’t they stay at the apartment JR owned on Pearl St? They needed a barricade. Why did they have a free get out of jail card?