MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[ShadyLady]

I find her likeable. She seems like a real person dealing with a real situation here with her life on the line.

I find her attorneys likeable too. Her lawyers obviously know what they're doing. They practically have tried to solve this case with other possibilities based on evidence, something that LE was supposed to have done from the very beginning. Everything they've presented has been based on evidence, at least what I've seen so far. I think Yannetti must be having a masterclass in lawyering because of Jackson's presence and same with the female lawyer.

I should add that I really like the quirkiness of Prosecutor Lally too and he has obviously put in many hours trying to understand this case. I give him credit for holding his own against the fancy city lawyers as best he could. I imagine he might have seen nothing like this case before in his career. I even like the judge, who again, I imagine may have never had a well-known attorney before her in the past.

I wondered why KR waited too. What was even their purpose for going there if she wasn't going in with him? Was he going in to go to the door and ask if Karen was welcome too. How would he get home if he was planning on staying. I have a lot of questions about why they even went there that night.

Your last sentence about why lie about dropping him off a the bar ... what is that about? Thanks.

MOO.

I believe KR told Jen that she had dropped JO at the bar when she first called her in the morning, and then was told by Jen and her husband over the phone, that they had seen her car at the party.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I believe KR told Jen that she had dropped JO at the bar when she first called her in the morning, and then was told by Jen and her husband over the phone, that they had seen her car at the party.

Jen's a proven liar. But trauma and alcohol can play with memory. There's still zero evidence John was hit by a car. See the real experts' testimonies.

 

[ShadyLady]

Jen's a proven liar. But trauma and alcohol can play with memory. There's still zero evidence John was hit by a car. See the real experts' testimonies.

Oh....I dont think that was damage from a car....

 

[cocomod]

I saw the pretrial hearing where defense wanted DNA from the clothing, but have not watched 23 days of trial to know if these tests were done looking for dog DNA. I would like to watch the defense and prosecution question the autopsy results but don't know how to find those days...anyone know?

I know that pre-trial they asked and were granted permission to test the pants. There were as I understand 3 different DNA on the blood on his pants. This didn't have to do with the dog DNA. They went back and asked the judge again asking for the pants and said that the CW still hadn't provided them. I also remember a particular hearing where they said they had been asking for the pants to test for 2 full years and the CW was still stalling and not giving it to them. The judge had ordered that they could have them; yet the CW still resisted. Why is that I wonder? I really do not like the way that I feel about the CW. I generally do not see a prosecution as being shady, but in this case...

ETA: Clarification about the DNA

 

[sunspun]

I was looking at some other theories and I think this whole thing went down in the basement of the house..he hit his head on the weightlifting equipment during a dog attack...his injuries tell the story. they cleaned up the basement, replaced the flooring, got rid of the dog ( who had a history of aggression and attacks) and promptly sold the house.

so maybe they weren't looking to frame Karen per say but that's how it spelled out once they could hit on her tail light as
evidence something occurred when actually she busted it in a parking lot.

Karen is a drunk driver and the whole thing is a drunken mess...a touchy dog around drunk people is a bad mix.

someone theorized they moved his body through the garage and put him in the car and placed him there in hopes
it looks like he got hit by a plow or whatever.

I agree with this synopsis. I think what I see in Karen is that she is sick of her life being ruined and is incredulous and
looks smug and is maybe even acting out a bit under all the stress. I think this is why she is becoming kind of polarizing
and unlikable .

and if she did this then it was a really stupid out of control thing to do, probably not with intention to kill but still a drunken vehicular homicide. but if she did this why can't they show me how she did it? show me where she hit him, where he hit his head, where he got puncture wounds on his arms and what was found inside those wounds, show me a model of the accident that occurred. if not then, how do we know this accident occurred? and then prove to me that she even knew she hit him...prove it.

mOO

I feel like this theory covers a lot of what is confusing about this, and I personally can see this as similar to the way it really happened. One thing about it though that does raise more questions: in this scenario, the people in the house (or at least someone in the house) would know about Chloe attacking JO, right? But they left him out there anyway, hoping it looked like he got hit by a car or plow? What did they think investigators would think about the evidence of dog injuries on his arm? Did no one think that would be a problem? Maybe they were just too drunk to worry about the details. Or maybe they relied on their pull w/LE, being cops themselves. Maybe they thought the arm injuries would just look like more vehicle accident wounds. They may have looked different at first and not so obviously dog-related (imo). So the theory can still stand, imo, because there are several ways they may not have seen this as a problem later, but it did still sound like they should have to me.

 

[ShadyLady]

I know that pre-trial they asked and were granted permission to test the pants. There were as I understand 3 different DNA on the blood on his pants. This didn't have to do with the dog DNA. They went back and asked the judge again asking for the pants and said that the CW still hadn't provided them. I also remember a particular hearing where they said they had been asking for the pants to test for 2 full years and the CW was still stalling and not giving it to them. The judge had ordered that they could have them; yet the CW still resisted. Why is that I wonder? I really do not like the way that I feel about the CW. I generally do not see a prosecution as being shady, but in this case...

ETA: Clarification about the DNA

IIRC...the hearing I heard was about his shirt, and thought they mentioned dog DNA. Probably had more then one hearing on DNA discovery issues.

 

[sunspun]

Why does he need to hit his head on the verge? My assumption would be that he was propelled in the air, and then hit his head on the cold hard ground (or something on top of it).

We know that Karen slammed on her accelerator and that her vehicle accelerated to 24mph in reverse. But for all we know, at least for all I know, it seems possible to me that she initially hit him at a very low speed - and then slammed the accelerator (maybe because she was startled and her foot had already been on the accelerator).

I am not an accident reconstructionist, but I feel like that kind of scenario could help explain a lack of evidence indicating a particularly violent initial strike, while still explaining how he could have been violently propelled in the air; he would have already been more or less attached to her vehicle when it sped up.

I thought there was evidence shown in court that her vehicle data showed that the only time it did a fast reverse was AFTER the cops had it towed into their garage and it was no longer in KR's possession. Like the cops had done the reverse themselves while testing it, trying to recreate what may have happened that night. It was in the "key cycle" (or ignition cycle) chart.

 

[ShadyLady]

Commentary on case...don't know how much is on target:

Karen Read trial: Experts testify about Jennifer McCabe's Google searches, Read's vehicle data

Jurors in the Karen Read trial have heard from several Massachusetts State Police witnesses and DNA analysts this week.

www.boston.com

‘Sick of always arguing and fighting’: Trooper reads some of the final messages between Karen Read and John O’Keefe

John O’Keefe and Karen Read discussed the deterioration of their relationship and their frequent verbal clashes in messages exchanged the day before O’Keefe died.

www.boston.com

 

[keek]

I thought there was evidence shown in court that her vehicle data showed that the only time it did a fast reverse was AFTER the cops had it towed into their garage and it was no longer in KR's possession. Like the cops had done the reverse themselves while testing it, trying to recreate what may have happened that night. It was in the "key cycle" (or ignition cycle) chart.

Yes, true.

 

[kittythehare]

I believe KR told Jen that she had dropped JO at the bar when she first called her in the morning, and then was told by Jen and her husband over the phone, that they had seen her car at the party.

She was groggy, possibly still under the weather, a temporary amnesiac state that we have all experienced under similar circumstances.

Who was searching for the complete trial episodes?
I watched most of it on Law and Crime U tube channel.
NBC Boston also livestreamed it
court tV did but that can be bitty with too many interruptions for my liking.

All of the above are on U Tube.. it's worth watching from the beginning... lots to learn on rewatching too...

 

[MyJoey]

not sure exactly which door is the side door- seems that you would still go up the driveway to get to any door. she did not testify so... was she already represented by counsel when she made public statements?

Really don’t matter if she testified, she’s telling 2 stories about the last time she seen John. Listen to the interviews and you will see what I mean.

 

[ShadyLady]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed



Now I want to watch Higgins for the 3rd time, to watch him lie again. He really does have high opinion of himself. And now am convinced Colin had nothing to do with it. But, seems Alberts are a fighting family.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[TIGER0822]

A senior moment here, who is Colin???

Colin Albert. The teen (now young adult) who was in the house, but not listed in the police report as being in the house. Had 4 bruised knuckles like he had punched someone. Claimed he ‘fell on ice’. Cried on the stand and said ‘he wants to go home’ . Other witness testimony was all over the place re: his timeline.

 

[nightowl1975]

honestly i can't believe the 'colin' lies were dropped so easily. IMO he is 100% up to his eyeballs in this and and that is the reason they all closed ranks. Protect the kids at all costs.

I agree. Wayyyyy too many coincidences and outright ridiculous proclamations for it to be as simple as KR backed into him on purpose.

 

[nightowl1975]

What is the relevance of the fire hydrant?

I think it’s just pondering options of what could’ve caused the skull fracture if it all went down outside. The experts testified that severe of a skull fracture would not have occurred from hitting his head on the ground alone. So that leaves the fire hydrant, flag pole, another vehicle, the snow plow, or something someone welded to strike him. Not any other realistic options for it to have occurred outside IMO.

 

[nightowl1975]

I personally think if this does go to retrial, the defense needs to spend a lot more time presenting their side. We clearly cannot assume the jury is putting two and two together. More needs to be done to explain how it’s impossible he was dead on the lawn for 5.5+ hours at freezing temps with a body temp of 80. Jen McCabe needs to be called back to the stand to explain how she saw KR outside the window while sending those texts to JOs phone if KR was already back at his house. Literally call her out on the stand. CA and his whole messed up timeline and lies needs to be emphasized more. The fact that she couldn’t possibly have been the one driving in reverse at 24mph based on the key turns or whatever needs to be spelled out with more clarity. The clothing with multiple sets of DNA on it needs to be emphasized more. The fact that the CW says the broken tail light caused the gouges in his arm, yet there was zero blood on the tail light pieces needs to be emphasized. Where did the extra tail light pieces come from? Where did the non-matching pieces of glass come from? Play the sally port video back correctly vs inverted, and make them answer the same questions again. Etc etc etc. It seemed like just the few witnesses were more than enough but they need to lay it alllllll out.

 

[nightowl1975]

I also feel like the fact that NONE of the jurors have spoken out is extremely telling. It makes me think they’re scared to do so.

 

[nightowl1975]

The expert witnesses for the defense in this case weren't paid a single penny for their testimony.

Nor were they even brought in to the case by the defense. And let’s not even get into how their level of expertise compared to the CWs “experts”.

 

[kittythehare]

Trooper Michael Proctor, lead investigator in Karen Read case, faces duty status hearing Monday

The lead investigator in the Karen Read case Michael Proctor will face an internal hearing determining his future with the State Police on Monday after the high profile trial revealed evidence of t…

www.bostonherald.com

Like any State Police discipline process, his duty status hearing Monday will determine whether the investigator will be retained on full duty, placed on restricted duty, suspended with pay or suspended without pay, the Massachusetts State Police said in a statement Sunday.

Following the State Police’s announcement last week, Proctor remained paid and employed by the department but was relieved of his work duties.

State Comptroller records show Proctor earned $184,397 in the last year.

Proctor was first placed under internal review long before the trial in March, after federal officials opened a probe into the investigation of the O’Keefe homicide.

The hearing Monday will be conducted virtually and Proctor will not be in-person at General Headquarters in Framingham, the State Police said. The department stated the hearing will not be open to the public or media.