Credit: Joseph Garcia, WHAS11
Snippets of recordings from Steve Lawson's prior police interviews played in court while discussing whether to drop his charges. | June 13, 2024
9:40 a.m.
"I have never in my 0 years of practicing law had a court find that a witness was untruthful. that's remarkable," Butler said. "We would leave this jury with an incredibly false impression in a joint trial."
He adds that during a joint trial, the defense would have to be able to show how Steve Lawson's statements developed.
9:38 a.m.
"You found, in that order [denying Lawson's claims of promised immunity], beyond a reasonable doubt that he was untruthful," Butler argues. "This is the most important witness against Brooks Houck. This is the person they spent days, hours and hours, interviewing. Because, and I disagree with this, but in their mind, he's the one that connected dots for them."
RELATED: Crystal Rogers case; judge makes decision on Steve Lawson’s charges
Butler suggests in trial the jury would hear grand jury statements, jail calls made to Steve Lawson's mother and ex-wife that are "incredibly incriminating" to Houck.
9:35 a.m.
The defense argues that the chances of Steve Lawson testifying are slim.
"So then we would be forced, knowing no one could look at those quotes objectively and say they don't incriminate Brooks Houck," Butler argues. "But rather than getting to cross examine Steve Lawson, because if he doesn't testify we don't get t confront him. We are forced to cross-examine police detectives to determine how these statements developed."
Butler said that would be a violation of Houck's Sixth Amendment rights.
Credit: Shay McAlister, WHAS11 News
A slide from Butler's presentation shows Steve Lawson's 2023 grand jury testimony story of what happened to Crystal Rogers. | July 8, 2024
9:33 a.m.
"While there is a preference for a joint trail, in this case, there can't be a fair trial as a joint trial," Butler said.
He said if there is a joint trial and a conviction is reached, he believes everyone will be back in the Nelson County courtroom in two years when an appeal is won.
9:30 a.m.
Butler brings up Lawson's grand jury testimony story of what happened again.
"Steve and Joey were with [another person] on a drywall job when [another person] asked them to move Crystal's car," Butler reiterates. "There's no way that doesn't implicate him. It can't be done."
9:29 a.m.
A snippet of Houck's July 2015 police interview is played in court.
You can watch that full interview below:
9:28 a.m.
"[Another person] told Steve while they were talking in his work truck that [Houck] wanted Crystal gone," Butler said. That statement comes from Lawson's grand jury testimony, he said.
9:25 a.m.
"There's really no way to excise Brooks' name from Steve Lawson's statement, without implicating Brooks," he adds. "In this case, there's no way that doesn't incriminate Brooks Houck."
Credit: Alyssa Newton, WHAS11 News
Three men charged in Crystal Rogers' death appear in court on Feb. 8, 2024. (From left to right: Joseph Lawson, Brooks Houck, Steven Lawson.
9:23 a.m.
"If we had a joint trial, and Steve Lawsons is present during that joint trial and his statements are protected, yet we are getting into those statements, to show this bias by law enforcement to [a] 'get Brooks' mentality," he said. "It would be impossible for a jury to follow, to listen to all of these statements and then do this mental gymnastics [to review what evidence can and can't be used against Houck]."
Butler said there's more than 20 hours of interviews with Steve Lawson since 2020.
9:19 a.m.
Butler said Steve Lawson's testimony has drastically changed over time. "I think this court has used the term, 'widely inconsistent,'" he said.
"Steve Lawson and Joseph Lawson were working with Brooks on a drywall job, when they were asked to move Crystal's car [according to Steve Lawson's 2023 grand jury testimony]," Butler begins. "Brooks promised Steve all future drywall jobs, in exchange for moving Ms. Rogers' car [Lawson said in that testimony]."
9:17 a.m.
Butler said if Steve Lawson doesn't testify, the defense loses its right to cross examine.
Credit: Shay McAlister, WHAS11 News
Brian Butler, Brooks Houck's attorney, argues against combining the trials in Crystal Rogers case. | July 8, 2024
9:15 a.m.
"Our defense is Mr. Houck did not commit this crime and Steve Lawson is lying," Butler argues. "He has to be afforded a meaningful opportunity to present a defense."
9:13 a.m.
Brian Butler begins his argument saying the court has "three parts to look at when making this decision."
"Teresa's right, there is a preference for a joint trial," he said. "But every defendant in Kentucky has an absolute right to demand a separate trial."
9:10 a.m.
"I don't think it would be necessary at all to bring up Steve Lawson's statements about Brooks Houck," Teresa Young concludes. Houck's attorneys are now approaching the bench.
9:07 a.m.
"They've argued that [Steve Lawson's testimony] are a product of coercion, and that his grand jury testimony is a product of coercion. Steve Lawson himself hasn't argued that," Young said. "I don't know how they have standings to argue that."
9:05 a.m.
"There is obviously some form of collaboration going on [among the three suspects]," Young argues. She said the cases all have same facts surrounding how Rogers' was killed.
9:03 a.m.
Prosecutor Teresa Young argues that joint trials favor consistent testimony and preserve government resources while avoiding traumatizing the victim's families any further.
9:01 a.m.
Prosecutor does not plan to submit any evidence this morning, only arguments. Houck's attorney, Brian Butler said the defense won't be calling witnesses, but will use grand jury testimony from September regarding Steve Lawson.
9:00 a.m.
Judge Charles Simms has arrived.
The prosecution met with the Ballard family prior to court. Brooks' family is seated behind him.
Credit: Shay McAlister, WHAS11 News
Brooks Houck sits in a Nelson County courtroom. | July 8, 2024
8:54 a.m.
Brooks Houck is seated in the courtroom with his attorneys. Monday's hearing is expected to go over Special Prosecutor Shane Young's motion to combine the trials for all three men charged in Rogers' death.
What to Expect
Attorneys will discuss a motion to combine the trial for Houck and the two other men charged in
the Bardstown mother's 2015 disappearance.
Houck is charged with murder and tampering with physical evidence.
Prosecutors claim father-and-son duo Joseph and Steve Lawson were working for Houck around the time Rogers' disappeared. Both men are charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence.
Special Prosecutor Shane Young has filed a motion to try all three men in one trial, claiming they worked together to kill Rogers and cover up her death.
Brian Butler, Houck's defense attorney, has objected to the motion to combine the trials.
Butler argues if the trial is combined, the jury will not see the “unsavory tactics law enforcement employed during their interviews of the Lawsons that ultimately resulted in false confessions.”
The hearing on Monday is expected to start at 9 a.m.
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