Also, IIRC, early on after the Moab incident, Gabby's mother played down the seriousness of the situation saying that it was the result of the small living quarters in the van and spending all that time in those close quarters while travelling. If this case ever goes to trial in civil court, that statement will be part of the evidence, I would think.
Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #88
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Megnut
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GP's family doesn't have to 'win' the lawsuit to effect change. Increased awareness, targeted trained, heightened accountability, forced change.
Five years from now, in a city that adopts whatever new policy and advanced training comes out of this, LE will encounter a domestic situation, maybe on the side of the road, a car a or truck or camper, a new Gabby and a new Brian, and that tact LE takes may save lives. We don't know how or what that will look like because we aren't there yet.
But that is the hope and IMO the is what GP's family is fighting for.
JMO
housewife
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Moab PD didn't follow their own Lethality Assessment Protocol they had volunteered to use back in 2018.
They didn't follow their own policy.
That is the failure here.
"Moab police should have already been following the lethality assessment protocol, or LAP that Petito's family has since successfully lobbied to become mandatory in Utah and Florida.
"Moab had ostensibly adopted a LAP known as the Maryland Model, designed to "reduce risks and save lives" voluntarily back in 2018. It involves asking the victim a series of questions in search of specific red flags. A similar protocol is now required under a 2023 law for domestic violence calls across Utah.
From Joseph Petito:
"The official investigative report concludes the officers made serious mistakes. The Moab officers themselves googled the law, acknowledged they had no discretion, and that failing to follow the statute could cause victims to get killed. It’s all on video and in the transcript. Then they just chose to not obey the statute, and that’s exactly what happened. Gabby was killed."
"Moab still doesn’t get it," her father said. "This case has never been about money. It has always been about seeking accountability and fighting for change that will save lives. When law enforcement fails to follow the law, fails to protect, and refuses to learn from its mistakes, like the Moab police department, it puts us all at risk."
(Emphasis in bold is mine)
Edited: formatting
They didn't follow their own policy.
That is the failure here.
"Moab police should have already been following the lethality assessment protocol, or LAP that Petito's family has since successfully lobbied to become mandatory in Utah and Florida.
"Moab had ostensibly adopted a LAP known as the Maryland Model, designed to "reduce risks and save lives" voluntarily back in 2018. It involves asking the victim a series of questions in search of specific red flags. A similar protocol is now required under a 2023 law for domestic violence calls across Utah.
From Joseph Petito:
"The official investigative report concludes the officers made serious mistakes. The Moab officers themselves googled the law, acknowledged they had no discretion, and that failing to follow the statute could cause victims to get killed. It’s all on video and in the transcript. Then they just chose to not obey the statute, and that’s exactly what happened. Gabby was killed."
"Moab still doesn’t get it," her father said. "This case has never been about money. It has always been about seeking accountability and fighting for change that will save lives. When law enforcement fails to follow the law, fails to protect, and refuses to learn from its mistakes, like the Moab police department, it puts us all at risk."
(Emphasis in bold is mine)
Edited: formatting
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Moo...if the police had asked more questions.... how would that of changed the outcome.? Neither G or B wanted to lay charges, nor G want to separate. The police cannot tell a person who they are allowed to date. Couples stay in violent relationships for years. Sure I do think there should be more safe houses and support. But even those things would not of made a difference in this case....moo
housewife
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IMO I wouldn't blame the victim's mother for Brian's actions.
Gabby and her mother believed whatever the police told them. The police thought Gabby's injuries (and being locked out of her own mobile home) were not problematic! Gabby knew the police did not consider her to be in a dangerous situation, and she believed it.
Gabby and her mom had no idea the police were:
-Abusers themselves (Pratt)
-Not following their own policy
-Completely wrong in assessing the situation
We are told to believe and obey whatever the police tell us. And that's what Gabby did.
GRT
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Like you, I think they want change.
I just don't think the Moab PD's actions in that situation were inappropriate, so I'm not sure what sort of change could happen.
GRT
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How would following that volunteer policy have kept Gabby from being murdered more than two weeks later?
From the videos of the encounter, it appears the PD asked most, if not all, of the LAP questions and separated the couple. But, I can't find anything in the policy that would have changed the outcome that day.
Here are the 11 questions:
LinasK
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wnk
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Let's not also forget the effect the Moab encounter had on BL. It wasn't just that he wasn't held accountable for harming GP; he was told that he was in the right, and that their relationship problems were her fault. He was assured, repeatedly, that he was the victim in the situation.
GP learned that she couldn't turn to law enforcement for help, and BL learned that how he'd been treating her was totally fine and understandable, because she was the problem.
IMO, the Moab stop only empowered him to push the DV further, because he saw he could talk his way out of it, and because she was a little blonde with mental health issues, people would believe him.
GP learned that she couldn't turn to law enforcement for help, and BL learned that how he'd been treating her was totally fine and understandable, because she was the problem.
IMO, the Moab stop only empowered him to push the DV further, because he saw he could talk his way out of it, and because she was a little blonde with mental health issues, people would believe him.
GRT
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I'd like to see the Gabby Petito Foundation take on teaching high school students how to recognize when they're in dangerous relationships and how to get out.
Ultimately, the choice will always be up to the victim in an abusive relationship, and if she knows what to look for before she even gets in a relationship, maybe she'll be strong enough to get out.
I'd also like to see efforts to teach young males that striking a female is never okay--even if they grew up in a family where that happened.
But in this case, I don't know that LE could have done much differently. Gabby was on the phone to her mother, crying, and her own mother wasn't able to talk her into leaving Brian. I just don't see how the officers could have done it.
I think the intervention has to start earlier--much earlier--when the kids are still in school, so the girls learn to set high goals for themselves and develop the sort of self-worth and self-confidence that doesn't allow them to play second fiddle to controlling and manipulative males.
all jmoo
I agree completely. So far as the lawsuit for wrongful death goes, I'm still not seeing how LE not deciding GP must be lying about what happened and instead blaming herself, LE deciding it was a mental health crisis/travelers' strain when both GP & BL seemed to say it was (& GP's mother also apparently believed it was) and GP's death 2 weeks later 500 miles from Moab.
I'm not the only one who doesn't see the connection-- several posters have asked where the specific connection lies between the officers' actions and GP's death. (Because the suit is for wrongful death, a nexus has to be shown. Failure to follow Policy X isn't enough.) In response, some posters have suggested if BL had been arrested and held in jail overnight (longer than that wasn't going to happen) GP might have come to her senses. That seems very unlikely IMO-- but even if it was "possible," it would seem a possibility is not enough to be responsible for a wrongful death weeks later. I'm also not so sure GP & BL were completely naive so far as LE goes. (Dining/dashing, suggestions of possible shoplifting, drugs) So I'm not sure that BL going to jail for a night would have been such a huge deal that things would have changed for GP.
Other posters have said if BL was in jail, LE could have talked GP into leaving BL. That seems to suggest it is dept policy to take the identified victim into custody as well as the identified aggressor. That way, LE can work on educating the victim. But how can that be? How can a victim be taken into custody? What about her/his rights? And are regular officers expected to do this education of victims? Act as counselors/social workers? At most I'd think identified victims (at least those with more minor injuries like scratches who don't require an ER visit) might be given phone numbers to call if they wish (hotlines including DV hotlines, social workers, ways to find a "safe house") At the scene the female park ranger claims she shared her views with GP & that clearly didn't "make GP see the light." (It will be interesting to find out in court what the ranger actually said IMO.)
Had education efforts of the sort described in the quoted post above happened earlier in GP's life she might never have become involved with BL or if she had, she might have left the relationship years before. But "educating" a reportedly-engaged to be married, apparently-committed 22-year old female about her years-long toxic relationship in one night wasn't ever going to happen even if there was a legal provision for a victim to be taken into custody (AND LE had enough information about the relationship after one encounter with the couple and had the training to effectively carry out an educational intervention.) I can, however, imagine BL might have been more of an imminent threat to GP after spending a night in jail. We do know that happens. I'm not suggesting that means aggressors shouldn't be jailed. But I don't think it's realistic to suggest putting an identified aggressor in jail for a night will produce only benefits for an identified victim.
MOO
I agree. Also, no one knows the sequence of events/actions/ words that led to her murder. The lawsuit seems to presume there was some sort of inevitiblility about it, but no one can know that. I'm sure the vast majority of cases of DV and cooercive control, don't end in murder.
I think it's also legitimate to suggest that the diagnosis that this was a relationship of domestic violence and coercive control has happened because people saw the video after she'd gone missing and BL was alive and well. If they had seen this video before then - along with the hundreds of hours of other intenventions officers have assisted at, where both members of the couple are still alive and well - it might add a wider perspective that I think is missing from this lawsuit
JMO
LinasK
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Exactly! An abuser needs little/no provocation to escalate to murder. It's all about control with them. IIRC, witnesses said that Brian was pissed about the incident in the Merry Piglets restaurant where she went back in and apologized for his behavior. That could have been what set him off.
Sure, that could be what set BL off. Or it could be (based on some accounts from witnesses) he was upset GP ended up paying for what was intended to be a "dine and dash" meal at what was a relatively pricey restaurant for them. Or it might not have had anything to do with their excursion to the Merry Piglets & apparent arguments there. Just because A happens before B doesn't mean A caused B. And from all accounts, the couple argued ALOT. So there were plenty of arguments that didn't lead to death.
An earlier poster made the claim that research has demonstrated DV ALWAYS leads to the victim's death. I don't think that's true at all and would still like to see some documentation for that bold claim. But when it IS true, there is still some sort of immediate trigger for the homicidal act. It may not be a rational trigger and we may knew find it, but it was still there. We don't know what the trigger was in this case except that the death happened weeks after the Moab stop. Maybe it did have to do with the Merry Piglets but we'll never know for sure.
As I posted earlier, I do not think LE or the City of Moab is responsible for Gabby's death. To me, there's no obvious connection between Gabby's death weeks later and not arresting one of them for the night and instead separating them, treating the event as a mental health crisis. Gabby did tell the officers she had a mental disorder (OCD) after all.
Personally I think the couple had a "toxic" relationship. By that I mean they tended to bring out the worst in each other. But I'm not sure all the DV labels that have been bandied about here fit. The couple fought a lot according to a number of people who knew them-- high school friends, co-workers in FL & NC, BL's sister, GP's friend, Rose. Except for Rose, no one mentioned physical fights. (And GP's family didn't even see or hear any verbal fights apparently. And nobody in her family saw any abuse.) Yet we now know BOTH G&B may have responded in physical ways when fighting with each other on a regular basis. Moab LE didn't know any of that.
In my opinion there was a snowball's chance in the Moab desert of GP immediately changing her mind about staying with BL because of anything Moab LE did or said. But maybe as time went on, the Moab experience might have had an effect... Maybe after spending 6 days alone in a nice, clean, Marriott-owned, air-conditioned hotel (no dirty feet!) and getting her hair dyed and cut GP was starting to change her mind about continuing a cramped, uncomfortable, and dirty van life with BL. We don't know what else she did by herself in SLC but it has been reported she spent a lot of time on the phone with her parents that week, particularly her dad. Maybe when BL returned from FL she started to hint at the possibility of either a breakup or at least an earlier-than-planned end to the trip. GP said in one of their first van life videos she wanted to live a van life so she wouldn't have to work a real job. Maybe the idea of doing manual labor on a pumpkin farm in Oregon wasn't so attractive to her after all.
There's little doubt an abused partner is often at much greater risk if/when she decides to leave the relationship. Maybe things GP said-- perhaps about leaving the trip-- are what set off BL. If so, I guess one could argue Moab LE (particularly the park ranger) might have contributed to GP's death by encouraging her to question the trajectory of her life. But it would be pretty ironic to assign blame in that way.
MOO
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MOD NOTE
Please keep the conversation about THIS CASE.
Generalized opinions about womens’ safety issues as a whole may be therapeutic, but they veer the discussion AWAY from the individual, and make it more about your experiences, stories and perspectives. If your post does not even mention this horrible crime or Gabby, then you are probably off topic.
Those posts, while helpful to some, are not focusing on this specific case. We cannot right all the wrongs of our society on this forum, and so we ask that you put the attention on Gabby and bringing justice in her name. Going forward, posts that are generalized statements of the state of women’s safety and personal stories, may be removed. Although sometimes valuable, it starts a long line of replies so that at some point members and the visitors who come here may be confused about who the thread is actually about. You CAN have those chats in PMs, and as many as 20 members may participate in a PM. PMs are unmoderated and Private. Only those on the PM will see the messages.
Please keep the conversation about THIS CASE.
Generalized opinions about womens’ safety issues as a whole may be therapeutic, but they veer the discussion AWAY from the individual, and make it more about your experiences, stories and perspectives. If your post does not even mention this horrible crime or Gabby, then you are probably off topic.
Those posts, while helpful to some, are not focusing on this specific case. We cannot right all the wrongs of our society on this forum, and so we ask that you put the attention on Gabby and bringing justice in her name. Going forward, posts that are generalized statements of the state of women’s safety and personal stories, may be removed. Although sometimes valuable, it starts a long line of replies so that at some point members and the visitors who come here may be confused about who the thread is actually about. You CAN have those chats in PMs, and as many as 20 members may participate in a PM. PMs are unmoderated and Private. Only those on the PM will see the messages.
PrairieWind
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It has been a long time since I looked at this thread. Is a copy of the Complaint and Answer available somewhere easy?
Megnut
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In my zeal to reply, it occurs to me that this isn't what you asked for!
Leaving it here because it's a direct link to the the document dump, for anyone who wants to take another look.
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Megnut
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Trying again, let's see if I can follow directions this time.
The original 2022 complaint against Moab
1st Amended complaint
2nd amended complaint, linked in article
Stipulation at link
Petito family files amended wrongful death lawsuit against Moab City Police
The family of Gabby Petito filed a second amended complaint in a wrongful death lawsuit against the Moab City Police Department.
nbcmontana.com
Article referencing Moab's response
Moab Police Dept.: 'The judicial system is not a substitute for a GoFundMe campaign'
The father of Gabby Petito responds to Moab Police defense in wrongful death case
www.deseret.com
Lengthy article covering a lot
Moab officer was ‘biased’ against Gabby Petito because of his past, her parents claim in new lawsuit
One of the police officers who questioned Gabby Petito in Moab was “fundamentally biased” against her, claims a new lawsuit filed by Petito's parents.