Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[sunshineray]

Are there transcripts of these podcast episodes and, if so, would someone please drop a link?

I am not gullible. I am not a conspiracy fantacist. I have never been blindly 100% convinced of RA's innocence.

And I have NEVER forgotten about the two beautiful girls who lost their lives in violence and terror, nor their families' heartbreak. It. Is. Unfathomable.

The insinuation that I am any of those things has been hurtful, maddening, and triggering.

I've felt (and still do) that the evidence we know of is very weak. Ambiguous blurry figure wearing the clothes of 99% of his demographic, statements that there is no linked DNA or other "hard" linking evidence, misquoted witness statements being used in the charging documents.. I work in mental health, I've done extensive reading on the ramifications of isolation, and I can see how RA's false confessions would be an absolutely predictable result of his current situation; so as of right now, those confessions are a non-factor in my opinion of guilt vs innocence. Then we have the unprecedented fact that he is being held before trial in a state prison and on top of that has been subjected to certain hardships which according to sworn statements from professionals OTHER than AB & RZ are highly unusual of course creates further questions in my mind.


I've felt that some Delphi officials are either incompetent at best and corrupt at worst, historically in this region there exists a Midwestern small town type of good ole boy mentality, with lots of overgrown & self-important egos. Big fish in small pond: No official would ever publicly admit to being wrong and collectively they will - without question- support their own. *IMOO* Look it up for yourselves.

AB is flamboyant and unconventional. I like unconventional. I admire unconventional. It's not always a bad thing! And if everything I feel above is true, unconventional might be the only way to win a case that's already been stacked against your client.

But as I first said, I am not blind. I really hope there are transcripts-- I can read a heck of a lot faster than those folk can talk. If not uggghhhh please send me the podcast links.

I know of no transcripts. Here's the link, it's a three-part thing. Scroll down for #1

https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

 

[sunshineray]

The prosecution doesn’t get to arbitrarily decide what is exculpatory and what evidence have to give to the defense. They’re supposed to give everything over, so it’s a completely fair trial and everyone has the same facts.

Click corrected the statement MS released twisting his words. He confirmed he believes in his investigation.

Murphy was deposed by defense and his deposition is cited and quoted in the first franks motion.

All MOO

The investigation by LE is where the information comes from. They're suppose to give everything exculpatory over. The Defense couldn't even get through that stuff. They were saying they didn't have things that were in the files turned over to them. And they weren't very forthcoming with their own discovery for the prosecution. The State had to file to make them turn over discovery, they missed the deadline...by a lot. Who are the ones playing games? MO

 

[Salah11]

The ejected bullet places him at the murder site. He said in his own words he had never loaned his gun to anybody and never been to that spot before. He also can’t explain how it got there either (funny that).

So he can be placed at both crime scenes the Bridge and then the murder scene.

 

[sunshineray]

The ejected bullet places him at the murder site. He said in his own words he had never loaned his gun to anybody and never been to that spot before. He also can’t explain how it got there either (funny that).

So he can be placed at both crime scenes the Bridge and then the murder scene.

He placed him self on the bridge and there's a witness to him standing RIGHT where he said he was. His own words put him right there, remarkable.

 

[katydid23]

I'm way more concerned that ALL of them were lost.

But truth be told, those kinds of IT glitches/snafus do happen sometimes. Especially in a bureaucratic environment.

I worked for a large school district years ago, and we had similar issues occasionally. We once had a glitch with the statewide student test scores where hundreds were accidentally deleted, inexplicably. I don't think they ever really figured out how or why---it just happened.

Not everything is malicious or nefarious. And I don't think it's that surprising that no one replayed any of the interviews in the 6 months before they discovered the problem. Detectives take notes and there are often other officers, or coworkers ,watching from the adjacent room. So whatever they needed to hear in the interview has already been noted and so they quickly move on.

 

[mrjitty]

I think this fiasco illustrates the ethical line between trying to find reasonable doubt for your client amongst the facts of the case, versus creating conspiracies that you know are not true.

The Odinist theory isn't even the most insane theory these people are trying to astroturf. I am really not surprised to learn BM was pushing the drug gang / family connection after his behaviour over the Messer 'abduction'. They knew that was bogus and outrageous.

The reason why i criticise the 'Karen Read Template" is not to do with guilt or innocence in this case or that one. The point is guilt/innocence is determined by Jurors in the court room. The efforts to activate a supporter movement outside the courtroom in order to contaminate or hang the jury is simply bonkers.

It's especially shocking to me that multiple counsel would be involved in seeding conspiracies via court motions and cutouts.

I'll die on this hill!

MOO.

 

[MiniMoo]

@grannygates @girlhasnoname

Thanks for answering my question from yesterday asking about how RA became the main suspect.

 

[FromGermany1]

A few thoughts of mine that I toss around. Odinism, almost similar to the 'satanic panic' that many people feared in the 1980s. It got a lot of attention, people took notice to accusations of human sacrifice. It took focus away from Richard Allen, and that theory was looked at by some in LE at one time. The defense would not need to prove this theory, simply supply reasonable doubt to a jury. Fear, evil pagans vs helpful CVS worker.

As for KAK, I totally believe the defense wants to stay far, far away from him. Should this end up being a CSAM crime that would make a connection between Richard Allen and KAK/TK/AS. For me, it's very interesting the defense is not pointing the finger at A.S account.

RL, don't think RL would have caught the attention and or interest as evil pagans.

Just my honest opinion.

bbm
THIS is indeed interesting. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wouldn’t expect the state to, as the state has revealed very little of their theory in court documents. There’s basically no reason.

The defense, on the other hand, seems to be going with the SODDI defense and I’m pretty sure we all know there’s massive conjecture that it was actually a group of pedophiles engaging in behavior that ultimately led to the murder. It is somewhat interesting that instead of going with this theory, of which I feel there’s way more evidence than a weird odinism sacrifice, they went with the weird odinism sacrifice.

For all we know, the reason the defense isn’t touching any of that with a 10 foot pole is because KAK or related individuals actually do show up in discovery and they want to stay away from introducing the idea that RA may somehow be related to the “ring” or whatever.

JMO

That is also my belief, the D is keeping KAK and RA as far apart from each other as possible.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

The prosecution doesn’t get to arbitrarily decide what is exculpatory and what evidence have to give to the defense. They’re supposed to give everything over, so it’s a completely fair trial and everyone has the same facts.

RSBM

You keep saying this, but that's not what Brady says. Maybe that's how you think it should be, but the defense is only guaranteed materially exculpatory information. If it was "everything", and a case could be dismissed because the defense didn't get "everything", then no case would ever get prosecuted because it's an unreasonable burden. That napkin the detective scrawled a phone number on five years ago was thrown away after the fact? DISMISSED!

RA is the one on trial, not anyone else. There are limits to the SODDI defense, and the defense is not guaranteed the right to effectively try a different person at RA"s trial. They would do a lot of good to develop things like a basic alibi, but instead they're throwing all of their weight behind trying to find procedural errors. I can almost guarantee you that they have zero actual interest in the BH interview, they're just hoping they can get a Brady violation out of it and get the case dismissed.

I have a hunch that quite a few folks will be feeling pretty foolish when this does eventually get to trial, everything is laid out, and the defense's ridiculous antics are undeniable. The way they have twisted truth and reality will be laid bare.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

No....the gag order prevents the people under it from talking to the media. Circumventing it by sneaking through the content creator back door to get your message out is probably not illegal (?) since YouTubers are not media.

IMO MOO

The Defense has proven this to be the case since the filing of their first Franks Memo.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Photo Credit: CBSNews Atlana 69

#Justice4Abby&Libby

 

[Salah11]

He placed him self on the bridge and there's a witness to him standing RIGHT where he said he was. His own words put him right there, remarkable.

Yes sorrry early morning. It just boggles my mind when some act like LE don’t have anything on him.

It’s not like they found a bunch of other bullets next to the bodies.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

View attachment 518449
Photo Credit: CBSNews Atlana 69

#Justice4Abby&Libby

IMO MOO

Thank you for posting photos of the girls vibrant and smiling.

The sheer nastiness of criticizing the family members for remembering the girls in this way is mind-boggling. But here we are.

I suspect the complaints about the “dead [profanity] victims” were during the same time period when the money grab was happening (IMO). The merry band of nasty fundraising promoters used the #Justice4Abby&Libby hashtag to provoke a response and drive donations among the like-minded. And to show vitriol to the family, IMO.

Like you said: this is how they choose to conduct themselves in private. People like this always assume this is how everyone behaves behind closed doors — just like chronic liars assume everyone lies.

I can assure you that there are brilliant, diligent and dedicated defense attorneys in Indiana and elsewhere who also maintain ethical standards and treat others with respect and dignity.

I wish RA were represented by that type of defense attorney.

IMO MOO ETC

 

[girlhasnoname]

I feel like things are going to get very ugly in this case going forward. Strike that, I should have said even more ugly. Cornered people do unbelievably stupid things. This targeted social media campaigning behind the scenes is beyond unbelievable and has no place in a Court of Law.

I just want this D to get RA to trial and let a jury of his peers listen to the testimony, see the evidence against him, and make a decision of guilt (or innocence). Abby and Libby deserve Justice and the families deserve answers.

I wonder what all of the participants in the Due Process Gang and their SM hacks are thinking?

JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

I think the first few days of interviews after the murders would be the most important to keep. MOO

True. It is when our memories of events are the strongest and clearest - over time memories tend to fade for most. Unless you have a memory like an elephant...

 

[mrjitty]

I have a hunch that quite a few folks will be feeling pretty foolish when this does eventually get to trial, everything is laid out, and the defense's ridiculous antics are undeniable. The way they have twisted truth and reality will be laid bare.

RSBM - This is what has baffled me all along. These 3 attorneys say they are not part of the D team working on the criminal trial. In which case, they have no idea if RA is innocent or not, and presumably no idea about what he said in his numerous confessions.

So why would people be staking their personal reputations on his innocence in this way?

And while I do understand and support the constitutional aspects - it seems very odd to me for actual professionals to be championing factual innocence based on wild theories where they can't possibly know the underlying facts UNLESS they are being given access to the discovery.

It strike me they are trying to have it both ways. If you don't work for the D, and don't have access to discovery, how do you have any idea about guilt pre-trial? Yet also, they admit talking to B&R in these messages and the defence investigator is in chats - so what was being shared?

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I feel like things are going to get very ugly in this case going forward. Strike that, I should have said even more ugly. Cornered people do unbelievably stupid things. This targeted social media campaigning behind the scenes is beyond unbelievable and has no place in a Court of Law.

I just want this D to get RA to trial and let a jury of his peers listen to the testimony, see the evidence against him, and make a decision of guilt (or innocence). Abby and Libby deserve Justice and the families deserve answers.

I wonder what all of the participants in the Due Process Gang and their SM hacks are thinking?

JMO

I'm beginning to understand why Judge Gull triggered these guys. I wish she'd done it properly.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

I'm beginning to understand why Judge Gull triggered these guys. I wish she'd done it properly.

MOO

Well, they certainly don’t like her, do they?!

This is why I have always agreed with no Cameras in the courtroom cameras as these fame seekers, that’s exactly what they want.

IMO

 

[AugustWest]

RSBM

You keep saying this, but that's not what Brady says. Maybe that's how you think it should be, but the defense is only guaranteed materially exculpatory information. If it was "everything", and a case could be dismissed because the defense didn't get "everything", then no case would ever get prosecuted because it's an unreasonable burden. That napkin the detective scrawled a phone number on five years ago was thrown away after the fact? DISMISSED!

The prosecution does in fact have a duty to disclose all exculpatory information, whether or not he/she feels it is material/relevant.

This is covered not only by Brady, but also our professional rules of responsibility.

See 3.1-12 and 3-5.4: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/standards/ProsecutionFunctionFourthEdition/#:~:text=The prosecutor should seek to,persons, including suspects and defendants.