Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[MiniMoo]

Unspent Bullet

Not a gun savvy individual here...

When it comes to the term unspent bullet is that specifically a bullet ejected from a gun or can it be a bullet that may have fallen out of a person's pocket by accident.

Is unspent just unused.

If ejected from a gun would the ejection have been noticeable whether held in the offender's hand or loosely placed elsewhere on him or near him.

There is no way possible he would have been able to hold both a gun and knife at the same time as killing both teens.

Libby's cell phone

To leave it behind he either didn't know she had recorded him or it may have just fallen out of one of his pockets when he was staging the crime scene.

JMT

 

[Salah11]

The bullet travelled though his gun. So I highly doubt it fell from his pocket. Wasn’t the area leafy so maybe it dropped out and he just had no time to search it as he had more pressing matters at hand. MOOO

The FBI and other law enforcement agencies have funded studies that conclude unique marks are also imprinted on unfired rounds or shell casings as they are ejected from a handgun or rifle. That’s tool mark analysis in a nutshell.

Attorneys challenge method linking Richard Allen to unspent round at crime scene

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — There is just a single piece of publicly disclosed evidence that links double murder suspect Richard Allen to the scene where the bodies of Libby German and Abby Williams wer…

fox59.com

 

[WildHuncher]

Unspent Bullet

Not a gun savvy individual here...

When it comes to the term unspent bullet is that specifically a bullet ejected from a gun or can it be a bullet that may have fallen out of a person's pocket by accident.

Is unspent just unused.

If ejected from a gun would the ejection have been noticeable whether held in the offender's hand or loosely placed elsewhere on him or near him.

There is no way possible he would have been able to hold both a gun and knife at the same time as killing both teens.

Libby's cell phone

To leave it behind he either didn't know she had recorded him or it may have just fallen out of one of his pockets when he was staging the crime scene.

JMT

Unspent is any cartridge not yet actually fired. The particular cartridge found at the crime scene had been loaded into a magazine, chambered, and ejected still unfired. This can be identified from certain dents and scratches.

This ejection of a fireable round from an already loaded and cocked weapon was intended to menace the panicking victims into compliance. The killer probably was unable to follow the flight to the ground because he was watching the girls for signs of bolting. Then he forgot all about it anyway. There was a lot going on.

The actual murder weapon (the knife) would have been in hiding right up until killing time.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is this new?

Yes, and I'm sorry but it makes me chuckle. This Defense is something else.

Read the room Dudes, you are making things look so much worse for yourselves, but more importantly, your client aka the Defendant RA.

JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Speaking of the bullet. Is it standard procedure to load your weapon with gloves on?
My gun knowledge is limited to my family and friends and have always seen them load their weapons with bare hands.
Thanks

 

[photographer4]

He said he was unsure if it was recorded, 6 years later. At the time in 2017 all he's doing is interviewing a local CVS guy who told him about more potential witnesses, which he noted to look into. His job was to do the interview, write a report. With the flood of tips coming in generating mounds of reports, I find one of them being missfiled not very extraordinary. Richard Allen having a first name for his last name too probably was the root cause of the error in filing. AJMO

If he recorded it, why would he not have submitted it with his write up to Le? Wouldn’t that be part of his job? Also, how many interviews did he conduct? How many did he record (if any)? How many were filed erroneously that he wrote out (if any)? These are all questions I would want to know the answers to if I were on the jury.

 

[girlhasnoname]

it was 7 years until they did the search warrant. Do we even know if they have the phone? Or do they even need the phone to get GPS locations?

RA gave DD the phone IMEI number back in 2017. It hasn't been stated what the CAST data is yet in entirety, I'm sure that will come out at trial with dueling experts.

I don't see RA giving up the actual phone (if any) he was using that day to LE, but it will hard to explain why it wasn't included in the numbers from a tower dump. It is possible to track a phone’s location using the IMEI number, as long as the device is connected to a network. If was checking stock quotes like he said, it would have had to been connected.

They did recover 10-12 phones, including burners from his home during the Search so who knows what they might find.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Speaking of the bullet. Is it standard procedure to load your weapon with gloves on?
My gun knowledge is limited to my family and friends and have always seen them load their weapons with bare hands.
Thanks

This particular gun has a magazine that holds 15 rounds and 1 in the chamber. I agree a normal gun shooter would not be wearing gloves to load the magazine one bullet at a time. Now if you're purposely trying not to leave fingerprints on the bullets say, at a crime scene, I could see that.

RA might not have had a full magazine in the gun at all. I think he was just using it as an intimidation factor with one bullet already being chambered which ejected when he half c ocked it or he left one at the scene between the girls purposely as a weird memento.

The LE SW said a bullet was found in a keepsake box on the dresser in the Master BR of his home. I wonder if they were the same make and manufacturer? If so, ut oh. Not a good look for Rick IMO.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Unspent Bullet

Not a gun savvy individual here...

When it comes to the term unspent bullet is that specifically a bullet ejected from a gun or can it be a bullet that may have fallen out of a person's pocket by accident.

Is unspent just unused.

If ejected from a gun would the ejection have been noticeable whether held in the offender's hand or loosely placed elsewhere on him or near him.

There is no way possible he would have been able to hold both a gun and knife at the same time as killing both teens.

Libby's cell phone

To leave it behind he either didn't know she had recorded him or it may have just fallen out of one of his pockets when he was staging the crime scene.

JMT

It could have easily fallen out of a pocket. The tool markings on the unspent round just means at one time in its life, it was chambered and ejected from a weapon.

Of course, the markings wont say when that happened, so it could have been chambered a day, a month or a year prior to the person dropping it onto the ground.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Unspent Bullet

Not a gun savvy individual here...

When it comes to the term unspent bullet is that specifically a bullet ejected from a gun or can it be a bullet that may have fallen out of a person's pocket by accident.

Is unspent just unused.

If ejected from a gun would the ejection have been noticeable whether held in the offender's hand or loosely placed elsewhere on him or near him.

There is no way possible he would have been able to hold both a gun and knife at the same time as killing both teens.

Libby's cell phone

To leave it behind he either didn't know she had recorded him or it may have just fallen out of one of his pockets when he was staging the crime scene.

JMT

An unspent ejected shell would show the ejector markings. The ISP Lab performed testing on that bullet and said it was a match to RA's SS according to the PCA. It also stated that ballistic science could be interpretive and depended upon the expertise of the examiner. I like to include full disclosure when stating something like this. Dueling experts for and against is my guess come trial time.

I think RA held the gun on the girls until he got them where he wanted them and probably had them tied up with something. He wouldn't have needed the gun any longer so he could have easily killed the girls one at a time with the knife.

Libby's cell phone being found underneath her according to the PCA and found underneath Abby according to the D's Franks Memo had me really thinking. I believe Libby was the main target, so he killed Abby first and spent more time focused on Libby.

How and where her phone could be like you said, it fell out of his pocket in a last minute rush to get out of the area or Libby was smart enough to hide it under her. Typing this out has literally given me goose bumps. How terrifying for these young girls. I am so very sorry they crossed path with this monster that day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

All JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

An unspent ejected shell would show the ejector markings. The ISP Lab performed testing on that bullet and said it was a match to RA's SS according to the PCA. It also stated that ballistic science could be interpretive and depended upon the expertise of the examiner. I like to include full disclosure when stating something like this. Dueling experts for and against is my guess come trial time.

I think RA held the gun on the girls until he got them where he wanted them and probably had them tied up with something. He wouldn't have needed the gun any longer so he could have easily killed the girls one at a time with the knife.

Libby's cell phone being found underneath her according to the PCA and found underneath Abby according to the D's Franks Memo had me really thinking. I believe Libby was the main target, so he killed Abby first and spent more time focused on Libby.

How and where her phone could be like you said, it fell out of his pocket in a last minute rush to get out of the area or Libby was smart enough to hide it under her. Typing this out has literally given me goose bumps. How terrifying for these young girls. I am so very sorry they crossed path with this monster that day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

All JMO

I think Libby hid the phone on purpose. She knew it held valuable evidence.
I have often wondered if she hid the bullet as well. She was such a brave girl.
It could account for him directing anger towards her. Perhaps she was not being so cooperative after he killed her best friend.
All this is speculation on my part.

 

[MiniMoo]

I think Libby hid the phone on purpose. She knew it held valuable evidence.
I have often wondered if she hid the bullet as well. She was such a brave girl.
It could account for him directing anger towards her. Perhaps she was not being so cooperative after he killed her best friend.
All this is speculation on my part.

The only thing is - if say she was killed somewhere else first (close by) then dragged to where she was found - it is highly unlikely the phone would have stayed with her like that.

I know Libby had more blood on her body compared to Abby, but I'm sure I read she wasn't killed there.

However, as there are conflicting documents about the crime scene and the two girls (seems so) - the trial is really the only place that that will all be made clear.

What is fact and what isn't?

JMT

 

[sunshineray]

If he recorded it, why would he not have submitted it with his write up to Le? Wouldn’t that be part of his job? Also, how many interviews did he conduct? How many did he record (if any)? How many were filed erroneously that he wrote out (if any)? These are all questions I would want to know the answers to if I were on the jury.

We can ask all these questions but there are no answers yet because LE is honoring the gag order. If nothing is mentioned about it in the pretrials, we'll have to wait until October for the particulars...about many things.

 

[FromGermany1]

An unspent ejected shell would show the ejector markings. The ISP Lab performed testing on that bullet and said it was a match to RA's SS according to the PCA. It also stated that ballistic science could be interpretive and depended upon the expertise of the examiner. I like to include full disclosure when stating something like this. Dueling experts for and against is my guess come trial time.

I think RA held the gun on the girls until he got them where he wanted them and probably had them tied up with something. He wouldn't have needed the gun any longer so he could have easily killed the girls one at a time with the knife.

Libby's cell phone being found underneath her according to the PCA and found underneath Abby according to the D's Franks Memo had me really thinking. I believe Libby was the main target, so he killed Abby first and spent more time focused on Libby.

How and where her phone could be like you said, it fell out of his pocket in a last minute rush to get out of the area or Libby was smart enough to hide it under her. Typing this out has literally given me goose bumps. How terrifying for these young girls. I am so very sorry they crossed path with this monster that day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

All JMO

Can we imagine, RA needed his gun loaded all the time, until he left the scene and possibly would have been forced to use it for "self-defense"? What would he have done, if someone had stopped him after the murders? Would he have shot them?

 

[FromGermany1]

It could have easily fallen out of a pocket. The tool markings on the unspent round just means at one time in its life, it was chambered and ejected from a weapon.

Of course, the markings wont say when that happened, so it could have been chambered a day, a month or a year prior to the person dropping it onto the ground.

MOO

Although, if RA didn't know RL and had never been on his land and if he never lent his gun to anybody, then it has to be quite unlikely, that the bullet stemmed from an earlier time. IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The only thing is - if say she was killed somewhere else first (close by) then dragged to where she was found - it is highly unlikely the phone would have stayed with her like that.

I know Libby had more blood on her body compared to Abby, but I'm sure I read she wasn't killed there.

However, as there are conflicting documents about the crime scene and the two girls (seems so) - the trial is really the only place that that will all be made clear.

What is fact and what isn't?

JMT

I bolded some of your post, but not the last sentence.

If I remember correctly, the premise that Libby was bloodier than Abby comes from the defense’s Frank’s Motion which is defense speculation and not fact.
In fact it is so far from, we have recently learned, the actual defense attorneys and their cohorts don’t believe it the FM.

 

[TTF14]

I bolded some of your post, but not the last sentence.

If I remember correctly, the premise that Libby was bloodier than Abby comes from the defense’s Frank’s Motion which is defense speculation and not fact.
In fact it is so far from, we have recently learned, the actual defense attorneys and their cohorts don’t believe it the FM.

BBM. This statement is also not fact.

IMO MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was just listening to podcast about another case and it was mentioned that LE sometimes withholds information in order to be able to identify false confessions. We know LE in the Delphi case did that and I hadn’t thought about it for a long time. A tried and true tool in investigation.
Thinking about it now, I think it worked in reverse for LE here.
I feel sure one of the things LE kept to themselves was that a witness had seen BG/RA standing on the 1st platform shortly before the girls got to the bridge.
On October 13, 2022, when RA offered and admitted that he was on that platform at that time, he placed the last piece of the puzzle for LE.
RA cannot take himself off that bridge. He absolutely cannot take himself off the bridge. Not only is there a witness, RA himself puts himself on that bridge.
What that means is it doesn’t matter if RA’s cellphone shows up in the data or not, because he is STILL on that bridge, by his on word. Talk about Odinists or other players or unspent bullets or dozens of confessions, people who saw him and people who didn’t, etc……but RA is still on that bridge.
If feel confident LE has much more evidence against RA. Some will need to be weighed thoughtfully by the jury. Other evidence will be more directly tied to RA, and he will still be on that bridge. Nobody can take him off.

BG=RA and he will forever be on that bridge

Opinion

 

[steeltowngirl]

Is this new?

Mini-opening statement by defense? This should be interesting.

Four Franks Memos. I have lost count of their motions.
This defense doesn’t know the meaning of “mini” anything.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

Four Franks Memos. I have lost count of their motions.

rsbm

Ha! So true . (They made the motion for both sides to be able to do this, not just the defense.)