Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[BatataPoha]

For better or for worse, I would say.....

Its unlikely that the Military Exchange carried foreign shoe sizes. The vast majority of merchandise came straight from the US. This would probably go double for clothing articles due to style considerations and the desire to have common US sizes.

The only exceptions that I remember in Germany were a handful of higher end / glass display case German specialty items such as expensive binoculars, cameras, pocket / kitchen knives, and probably some cuckoo clocks.

As a curious side note, the Base Exchange / Rod and Gun club also sold (or more likely brokered) highly sought after German fire arms, including pistols. But.... I also vaguely remember that you needed to have transfer orders to the US before one could actually purchase them.

FWIW, the PD mention both the Japanese and the Korean size. Considering that after the manpower and time that they have thrown around on this ( seems to be considerable according to some folks ) , and yet they have not been more explicit whether the shoe size is indeed Korean or not, leads me to conclude that most likely, the shoe, like the rest of his attire, was sourced locally, unless we have some strong indication Of it being otherwise

 

[fridaybaker]

Never said his goal was Yasuko or Niina so I dunno who you are disagreeing with here. As for sidelining Mikio, thats a misinterpretation of what I said. He was done with killing Mikio and didn’t exhibit any of the immense ferocity that he showed subsequently to the others. It could be incidental or purposeful. We don’t know that.

What that tells us though is that while killing Mikio was certainly the killer’s intent, killing him in a ferocious manner was not, making it difficult for me to believe that he was the sole target of his hatred.

I can't agree with the assertion that he "didn't exhibit any of the immense ferocity that he showed subsequently to the others" or that killing Mikio in a ferocious manner wasn't intended. From all descriptions I've read, it was a particularly ferocious attack.
If there is a slight difference in "level of ferocity", I would attribute it to likely the overall arc of violence: He starts by the (relatively) mild attack on Rei, silencing him so as to prevent an alert to his presence by the others. His next attack is where the "real" violence starts -where the violence becomes brutal, vicious, and bloody. The start is Mikio, followed by the other two. His adrenaline is rising during the attacks. I guess I'm looking at this as not a series of murders, but a murderous episode, with a start, peak, and finish. That's why I tend to think that the pulling out/emptying of drawers, and other destruction in the house is simply that once the adrenaline and physical energy gets going, it tends to taper. It wouldn't just stop with the last killing.
Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

FWIW, the PD mention both the Japanese and the Korean size. Considering that after the manpower and time that they have thrown around on this ( seems to be considerable according to some folks ) , and yet they have not been more explicit whether the shoe size is indeed Korean or not, leads me to conclude that most likely, the shoe, like the rest of his attire, was sourced locally, unless we have some strong indication Of it being otherwise

In this case wouldn’t we have a list of places the Slazenger tennis shoe was sold, the same as we do for all the other items of clothing?… if the TMPD were unsure about the degree of sizing to a reasonable doubt and it meant it was actually sold in Japan, they would surely list the places it was sold if they were incorrect? At least that’s what I’d hope to see here…

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I can't agree with the assertion that he "didn't exhibit any of the immense ferocity that he showed subsequently to the others" or that killing Mikio in a ferocious manner wasn't intended. From all descriptions I've read, it was a particularly ferocious attack.
If there is a slight difference in "level of ferocity", I would attribute it to likely the overall arc of violence: He starts by the (relatively) mild attack on Rei, silencing him so as to prevent an alert to his presence by the others. His next attack is where the "real" violence starts -where the violence becomes brutal, vicious, and bloody. The start is Mikio, followed by the other two. His adrenaline is rising during the attacks. I guess I'm looking at this as not a series of murders, but a murderous episode, with a start, peak, and finish. That's why I tend to think that the pulling out/emptying of drawers, and other destruction in the house is simply that once the adrenaline and physical energy gets going, it tends to taper. It wouldn't just stop with the last killing.
Anyway, just my two cents.

Absolutely. I spoke to the man who was asked to do their autopsies — he said how brutal the attacks were across the board. He didn’t say “except for Rei, who was *only* strangled.” Or “the women got it a lot worse than the males.” Yet here we are with me saying up and being told it’s down and my thinking is flawed etc. [Obviously, I don’t mean you here, Friday].

At any rate, this isn’t a medical analysis, it’s a linguistic one. Clearly almost anyone with a passing grasp of the English language is going to accept that being stabbed in the face, brain, and heart before being pushed down some stairs is ferocious.

The TMPD has not suggested there is any kind of conclusive difference between the acts of violence that could indicate or goal or motive.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

I can't agree with the assertion that he "didn't exhibit any of the immense ferocity that he showed subsequently to the others" or that killing Mikio in a ferocious manner wasn't intended. From all descriptions I've read, it was a particularly ferocious attack.
If there is a slight difference in "level of ferocity", I would attribute it to likely the overall arc of violence: He starts by the (relatively) mild attack on Rei, silencing him so as to prevent an alert to his presence by the others. His next attack is where the "real" violence starts -where the violence becomes brutal, vicious, and bloody. The start is Mikio, followed by the other two. His adrenaline is rising during the attacks. I guess I'm looking at this as not a series of murders, but a murderous episode, with a start, peak, and finish. That's why I tend to think that the pulling out/emptying of drawers, and other destruction in the house is simply that once the adrenaline and physical energy gets going, it tends to taper. It wouldn't just stop with the last killing.
Anyway, just my two cents.

I can see that… he’s broken his knife and injured his hands at this point, adrenaline pumping, possibly furious about it all too. And then just above him through the open attic door… is Yasuko and Niina, and now he has to go and kill them too. With a broken knife and injuries to his hands. He might even be scared at this point that he still has two more to go. From the speculated timeline, he tries and then leaves the attic to get another knife… which even gave enough time for both Yasuko and Niina to get down the ladder.
How long was he in the kitchen? Seconds? Minutes? Was he hunched over the sink for a while breathing and his mind racing… and then when he found them at the bottom of the ladder, the final attacks were furious, rage-filled, ferocious… they had to die and they had to die now.
Horrible to imagine… but I can see it.

 

[SteveL]

In this case wouldn’t we have a list of places the Slazenger tennis shoe was sold, the same as we do for all the other items of clothing?… if the TMPD were unsure about the degree of sizing to a reasonable doubt and it meant it was actually sold in Japan, they would surely list the places it was sold if they were incorrect? At least that’s what I’d hope to see here…

I'd been trying to identify supply sources for Military Exchange. Cryptic pointed out what I assumed, the United States. In the USA, half sizes are completely common. So if they sourced Slazenger shoes from the USA, then they definitely included both whole AND half sizes.

Nic has requested not reaching out to anyone in the Yokota yearbooks. As he's the expert here, I defer to his request. However, just a simple conversation with a number of students in there, even basic questions (Do you recall if the commissary stocked Slazengers?, etc MANY MORE) would result in a dearth of clues. Just as a layman, I've found numerous clues, even (especially) in some of the years my suspected POI isn't even in. I wonder if the investigators are allowed to merely have conversations with former Yokota base members? I'm sure many of them would be GLAD to help solve such a horrific crime.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

I'd been trying to identify supply sources for Military Exchange. Cryptic pointed out what I assumed, the United States. In the USA, half sizes are completely common. So if they sourced Slazenger shoes from the USA, then they definitely included both whole AND half sizes.

Nic has requested not reaching out to anyone in the Yokota yearbooks. As he's the expert here, I defer to his request. However, just a simple conversation with a number of students in there, even basic questions (Do you recall if the commissary stocked Slazengers?, etc MANY MORE) would result in a dearth of clues. Just as a layman, I've found numerous clues, even (especially) in some of the years my suspected POI isn't even in. I wonder if the investigators are allowed to merely have conversations with former Yokota base members? I'm sure many of them would be GLAD to help solve such a horrific crime.

In this instance is it possible to get a list of stores that were on bases during the time period do you think? I wasn’t aware that US sizes included halves, but if true then surely the stores would sell by the half sizes. Could we potentially find out if half-size Slazenger’s were sold there?

 

[SteveL]

In this instance is it possible to get a list of stores that were on bases during the time period do you think? I wasn’t aware that US sizes included halves, but if true then surely the stores would sell by the half sizes. Could we potentially find out if half-size Slazenger’s were sold there?

Half sizes are totally common in the USA. Maybe because I grew up poor, they were more the rule than the exception when my parents took us shoe shopping. Whatever size we were, they ALWAYS bought a half size bigger, to account for eventual growth. But thinking now on a serious note, could that logic have been applied if the killer's parents bought the shoes??

 

[Cryptic]

What happens if a man comes to a Japanese Buddhist temple and explains that he’d like to spend a few days, fasting, meditating and keeping silence? I’d expect them just to show him a quiet place and let him be. In fact, most monasteries would respond the same way.

I gently disagree. Monasteries are communities comprised of people committed to a certain way. They need stability.

People who state that they are interested in religious teachings "X" and "Z" and promise to comply with "A", "B" and "C"- then fail to follow through for what ever reasons, can be very disruptive to the community and the needed stability.

Though harsh sounding, monasteries are not homeless shelters- though they often support them. They are not a source of counceling services- though monks often provide these things during retreats in, and outside, of the monastery.

One Christian monastery that I had contact with in the past trained released inmates at the monastery on traditional hand tool construction skills in hopes of developing marketable skills for high end home construction. They did not, however, permit "drop ins".

Though I have limited knowledge of Buddhism, I suspect the response of a good many Japanese monasteries would be the same as Christian ones:

- We welcome your interest. Please register for a retreat. We host retreats on the following dates..... . Sorry, no drop ins. Need emergency shelter? Here is a hotel voucher. Two days for single people. Three days for families. Yes, we can give some groceries as well.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

Half sizes are totally common in the USA. Maybe because I grew up poor, they were more the rule than the exception when my parents took us shoe shopping. Whatever size we were, they ALWAYS bought a half size bigger, to account for eventual growth. But thinking now on a serious note, could that logic have been applied if the killer's parents bought the shoes??

I suppose it could have if he were still growing, why not? It might account for the foot size in comparison to his height, which seems rather large… not abnormally so, but for a 170-75cm a 27.5cm foot is rather large. Perhaps it was larger than it needed to be and that’s why?

I saw Incoherent’s upload of the actor recreating the entry by the bathroom window and the shoe size on him also looked big to me. So maybe you’re right that due to his age his shoe size was accounting for more growth and was bigger than needed.

 

[Charlot123]

They are bad injuries, but are not ferocious injuries. Intent matters here. When I strangle someone, they have laryngeal hematoma, break of the hyoid bone, possibly rupture of the jugulars and the tympanic membrane. But its still a different level of ferocity to someone using a knife to bluntly dissect out these structures and injure them.

The injuries that Mikio sustains are easily explained by someone trying to protect themselves from an inexperienced knife guy. The structures he does hit are Bad structures to hit with a knife - brain in a skull, heart in a bony cage, fingertips possibly trying to swipe mindlessly and calves and buttocks.

If he really wanted to mess up Mikio, he could have done so, like he demonstrates on the mum and daughter. Whether thats coincidental or purposeful we are unsure, but there is a difference in the ferocity inflicted on Mikio and on the other two that followed.

Hope that clarifies it. I can’t explain it anymore imo.

I have a few questions. On the scheme in the Japanese article I linked, Mikio is lying at the foot of the stairs leading from the first floor to the so-called “mezzanine”, a word I have met in several publications (a split-level second floor).

Does anyone see any possibility of:

- the killer attacking Mikio from the back, holding him with his L hand in a chokehold and inflicting knife wounds with his R hand? This position would be uncomfortable for the killer, he’d have to strike blindly, but it could explain both injuring himself (potentially, on both hands) and certain clumsiness of the blows. Also, it would require upper body strength which I think the killer had.

2) I am still wondering if attacking the man of the house first might, logically make sense. Mikio did not appear strong, but one can never tell; some Japanese martial arts icons look deceivingly peaceful. For this very reason, starting with the father first could have been safer.

I have looked through different chokeholds. People tend to use their dominant arm, but it seems that the non-dominant one can be used, too. Lots of different chokeholds are used in martial arts.

3) Rei was strangled from the back and Niina’s death was due to severed neck/brainstem. Could it happen if a much taller person was holding a child from the back, pulling her neck up? And then, the killer somehow “covered” them. I wonder if they all were lying face down because during the attacks the killer was afraid to look at them and striking blindly? Or was one of them placed differently?

4) @FacelessPodcast and everyone else participating, there is something that i can not understand. In many places i have read that the Slazenger’s prints appear on the second floor. They write that the murderer initially changed to the slippers and then had to put on his Slaezengers going to the second floor because by that time, there was blood around. I am not even sure what “the second floor” is. (According to the scheme, there is the first floor, the mezzanine, the second floor and the attic. Maybe some mean, a split-level second floor). The explanation provided for the change of footwear is interesting. Like any Japanese, or exposed to Japanese customs man, the murderer first put on the slippers on entering, but then the floor was too bloody and he had to put on sneakers.

All of it is somewhat confusing because you’d expect a person to put on slippers at the entrance. Which, as I understand, is via the first floor, from the side, opposite to the park. But then we read that the suspected entry point was either the bathroom window, or the balcony, as @FacelessPidcast hypothesizes. Neither place should have slippers waiting for the killer. Did the murderer bring his own? I was thinking, maybe the bath was full of water for Mikio, and Mikio’s slippers were standing nearby? Then the killer could have used those slippers on entry for less noise, of course. He could have left own sneakers in the bathroom, then returned later to change them. It is not unreasonable if he killed Mikio on the second floor and pushed down. But according to the sketch from the CS that @FacelessPodcast has provided, Mikio was wearing at least one slipper. I also believe his feet were smaller than the killers’ ones, and that in general, larger sleepers are kept for guests. These slippers make me question both entry and exit points.

Could he have stolen someone’s keys? But entering through the front door, uninvited, should have alerted Mikio.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I have a few questions. On the scheme in the Japanese article I linked, Mikio is lying at the foot of the stairs leading from the first floor to the so-called “mezzanine”, a word I have met in several publications (a split-level second floor).

RSBM: Unfortunately, Batata is on a Time Out, so I'll do my best to answer in their place. (Perhaps they will use that time productively and get those answers from the TMPD?)

Does anyone see any possibility of:

- the killer attacking Mikio from the back, holding him with his L hand in a chokehold and inflicting knife wounds with his R hand? This position would be uncomfortable for the killer, he’d have to strike blindly, but it could explain both injuring himself (potentially, on both hands) and certain clumsiness of the blows. Also, it would require upper body strength which I think the killer had.

For me, no--I don't see this one. As I say, no choke-related injuries were ever mentioned to me. Moreover, we know Mikio was stabbed in the face and head from above. Given the killer was not that much taller than Mikio, the higher ground comes into play here. A differing account isn't required to explain the killer's injuries--the glancing blow on Mikio's skull (repeatedly) and the lack of a cross-guard and natural slippage combined with the great sharpness does that already.

2) I am still wondering if attacking the man of the house first might, logically make sense. Mikio did not appear strong, but one can never tell; some Japanese martial arts icons look deceivingly peaceful. For this very reason, starting with the father first could have been safer.

I have looked through different chokeholds. People tend to use their dominant arm, but it seems that the non-dominant one can be used, too. Lots of different chokeholds are used in martial arts.

The choking is not established so I don't opine. My family member in the police, who has attended various homicides, said that often times a male will stab by holding a victim in place with one hand, and then bringing the knife from up to down meaning the weaker hand can often get nicked in this motion. (Versus where a woman will often stab from down to up). At any rate, we know the killer was right-handed -almost certainly- and we know the primary injuries he sustains are there.

As for Mikio possibly knowing martial arts, I've never heard that. He was not a large man, did not weigh much, and would've been completely taken aback by the intrusion.

3) Rei was strangled from the back and Niina’s death was due to severed neck/brainstem.

What killed her was a stab to the cervical spine, yes. It's likely she rolled away from him in order to get away. But we also know that many of the blows she suffers are glancing ones from where the killer is stabbing Yasuko. So that seems to suggest he is stabbing the mother before the child which, again, would make sense given she would be more of a threat to him.

Could it happen if a much taller person was holding a child from the back, pulling her neck up? And then, the killer somehow “covered” them. I wonder if they all were lying face down because during the attacks the killer was afraid to look at them and striking blindly? Or was one of them placed differently?

Yasuko wasn't lying face down, nor was Mikio. We don't know if Rei was already laying face-down in his bed when the killer came in. I really don't think the killer had any issue looking at them, let alone being afraid to. Nothing in these actions suggests fear or emotion of any kind other than hatred / anger / dispassion for their existences.

4) @FacelessPodcast and everyone else participating, there is something that i can not understand. In many places i have read that the Slazenger’s prints appear on the second floor.

They were throughout the house.

They write that the murderer initially changed to the slippers and then had to put on his Slaezengers going to the second floor because by that time, there was blood around.

Again, the slippers is not established by the TMPD. I assume this is from wikipedia? The killer never takes off his shoes. Why would he take off his relatively bulky sports shoes which afford him better protection from the blood and put on house slippers?

I am not even sure what “the second floor” is. (According to the scheme, there is the first floor, the mezzanine, the second floor and the attic.

If you go back to the start of this thread, you can see the video where An Irie takes journalists through. To simplify, there are basically three floors. I will do this UK-style:

Ground floor: garage, computer -- Mikio ends up here.
First floor: toilet, bathroom, kids room, kitchen, living room -- Yasuko, Niina, Rei all found here.
Attic: Yasuko, Niina initially stabbed here.

The mezzanine is simply a step area between the ground and first floor.

Maybe some mean, a split-level second floor). The explanation provided for the change of footwear is interesting. Like any Japanese, or exposed to Japanese customs man, the murderer first put on the slippers on entering, but then the floor was too bloody and he had to put on sneakers.

Where is the evidence this ever happened? I don't think that it did.

All of it is somewhat confusing because you’d expect a person to put on slippers at the entrance. Which, as I understand, is via the first floor, from the side, opposite to the park.

Normally this would happen at the genkan, right by the front door. Though there would likely be toilet slippers too.

But then we read that the suspected entry point was either the bathroom window, or the balcony, as @FacelessPidcast hypothesizes. Neither place should have slippers waiting for the killer. Did the murderer bring his own?

No. And as I say, what would be the point of using the slippers anyway. I recall you mentioning before that his DNA was found on the slippers suggesting a prior visit. This did not happen. The killer has never been established to have any kind of personal link with the family, let alone prior visits to their home.

I was thinking, maybe the bath was full of water for Mikio, and Mikio’s slippers were standing nearby? Then the killer could have used those slippers on entry for less noise, of course. He could have left own sneakers in the bathroom, then returned later to change them. It is not unreasonable if he killed Mikio on the second floor and pushed down. But according to the sketch from the CS that @FacelessPodcast has provided, Mikio was wearing at least one slipper. I also believe his feet were smaller than the killers’ ones, and that in general, larger sleepers are kept for guests. These slippers make me question both entry and exit points.

Could he have stolen someone’s keys? But entering through the front door, uninvited, should have alerted Mikio.

Missing keys would have been noted. And I discount the possibility of the killer entering through the front door because the evidence and the sequence of these murders renders it all but impossible.

 

[Charlot123]

RSBM: Unfortunately, Batata is on a Time Out, so I'll do my best to answer in their place. (Perhaps they will use that time productively and get those answers from the TMPD?)

For me, no--I don't see this one. As I say, no choke-related injuries were ever mentioned to me. Moreover, we know Mikio was stabbed in the face and head from above. Given the killer was not that much taller than Mikio, the higher ground comes into play here. A differing account isn't required to explain the killer's injuries--the glancing blow on Mikio's skull (repeatedly) and the lack of a cross-guard and natural slippage combined with the great sharpness does that already.

The choking is not established so I don't opine. My family member in the police, who has attended various homicides, said that often times a male will stab by holding a victim in place with one hand, and then bringing the knife from up to down meaning the weaker hand can often get nicked in this motion. (Versus where a woman will often stab from down to up). At any rate, we know the killer was right-handed -almost certainly- and we know the primary injuries he sustains are there.

As for Mikio possibly knowing martial arts, I've never heard that. He was not a large man, did not weigh much, and would've been completely taken aback by the intrusion.

What killed her was a stab to the cervical spine, yes. It's likely she rolled away from him in order to get away. But we also know that many of the blows she suffers are glancing ones from where the killer is stabbing Yasuko. So that seems to suggest he is stabbing the mother before the child which, again, would make sense given she would be more of a threat to him.

Yasuko wasn't lying face down, nor was Mikio. We don't know if Rei was already laying face-down in his bed when the killer came in. I really don't think the killer had any issue looking at them, let alone being afraid to. Nothing in these actions suggests fear or emotion of any kind other than hatred / anger / dispassion for their existences.

They were throughout the house.

Again, the slippers is not established by the TMPD. I assume this is from wikipedia? The killer never takes off his shoes. Why would he take off his relatively bulky sports shoes which afford him better protection from the blood and put on house slippers?

If you go back to the start of this thread, you can see the video where An Irie takes journalists through. To simplify, there are basically three floors. I will do this UK-style:

Ground floor: garage, computer -- Mikio ends up here.
First floor: toilet, bathroom, kids room, kitchen, living room -- Yasuko, Niina, Rei all found here.
Attic: Yasuko, Niina initially stabbed here.

The mezzanine is simply a step area between the ground and first floor.


Where is the evidence this ever happened? I don't think that it did.

Normally this would happen at the genkan, right by the front door. Though there would likely be toilet slippers too.

No. And as I say, what would be the point of using the slippers anyway. I recall you mentioning before that his DNA was found on the slippers suggesting a prior visit. This did not happen. The killer has never been established to have any kind of personal link with the family, let alone prior visits to their home.

Missing keys would have been noted. And I discount the possibility of the killer entering through the front door because the evidence and the sequence of these murders renders it all but impossible.

Thank you. I thought that the chance of him attacking Mikio from the back was low, that was my idea to explain the haphazardness of the attack. I didn't think Mikio was into martial arts, I just think that the fighting prowess of a small, lithe man is sometimes hard to estimate. My thought on Wikipedias and online Encyclopedias. As long as they provide the references, they are fine. No encyclopedia is ever impartial; even Britannica isn't. I have an edition of EB from the old time, interesting to see what they wrote then about the Setagaya murders when they just happened, btw. But yesterday I read the Korean Wiki about the murders. Of new information to me, they mention An Irie's account of Rei being prone to attacks of screaming and this is why the Miyazawas were almost the last ones to move away. They were looking for new neighbors who wouldn't be bothered by Rei's episodes, or at least this is what Korean Wiki says. If true, that explains lack of sounds from the Miyazawas side that night - the unusual one, the stairs retracting, the neighbors heard, but if Rei was a screamer, perhaps the neighbors were desensitized to the sounds. (My own experience: one's brain is trying to find the most plausible explanation to the perceived.)

Thank you for referring me to An Irie's walking through the house; I am not too visual, so even 3-d models unless i hold them in my hands and look at them, won't tell me much. That scheme in the Japanese article worked the best for me.

 

[Cryptic]

I'd been trying to identify supply sources for Military Exchange. Cryptic pointed out what I assumed, the United States.

Yes, I think your assumption is correct. The likely supply chain is:

Manufacturer or mega scale wholesaler with some items > Military Exchange Command > Regional Distribution Center > Individual exchanges.

I strongly suspect that that managers at individual exchanges must order products through the Military Exchange Command. Though they can tailor orders to reflect local buying trends. The products are then shipped from the United States to a regional distribution center, and then to the individual exchange by say, the pallet.

The likely only exception would be for small amounts local specialty items such as "Pride of Germany" type cameras, cuckoo clocks, binoculars and cutlery. These items were likely sourced from German distributors.

The exchanges also allow private vendors to rent booths in the building. These vendors, however, do not sell goods that compete with the exchange. Rather, they sell say, Phllipino handicrafts imported by a wife of a serviceman.

Other vendor products would be say, embroidered dragon jackets that were the rage at the time, and a wide variety "Kill 'em" T-shirts featuring lots of mandatory skeletons and slogans like "Airborne Death from Above", and "Forward Observers, the Eyes of Death". But.... no shoes as they would compete with exchange shoes.

 

[SteveL]

Yes, I think your assumption is correct. The likely supply chain is:

Manufacturer or mega scale wholesaler with some items > Military Exchange Command > Regional Distribution Center > Individual exchanges.

I strongly suspect that that managers at individual exchanges must order products through the Military Exchange Command. Though they can tailor orders to reflect local buying trends. The products are then shipped from the United States to a regional distribution center, and then to the individual exchange by say, the pallet.

The likely only exception would be for small amounts local specialty items such as "Pride of Germany" type cameras, cuckoo clocks, binoculars and cutlery. These items were likely sourced from German distributors.

The exchanges also allow private vendors to rent booths in the building. These vendors, however, do not sell goods that compete with the exchange. Rather, they sell say, Phllipino handicrafts imported by a wife of a serviceman.

Other vendor products would be say, embroidered dragon jackets that were the rage at the time, and a wide variety "Kill 'em" T-shirts featuring lots of mandatory skeletons and slogans like "Airborne Death from Above", and "Forward Observers, the Eyes of Death". But.... no shoes as they would compete with exchange shoes.

Cryptic, you’ve just brought forth another question. As you say “The exchanges also allow private vendors to rent booths in the building. These vendors, however, do not sell goods that compete with the exchange.”

Is it possible a private vendor would have a booth selling Japanese cutlery? German and Japanese steel knives are considered the world’s best. It’s reasonable to think there’d be a booth specializing in Japanese knives.

TMPD has stated they believe the sashimi knife the killer brought came from a local market. However, it appears that TMPD is ruling out/not investigating anything related to Yokota AFB. Is it possible the same vendor from the market also maintained a booth at the exchange?

One of my issues has been the knife being purchased at the market. If the killer was American, as some suspect, wouldn’t he stand out purchasing such a knife? However, if the knife was purchased from a booth, at a market where ONLY Americans were allowed to shop, he may not stand out.

Once again, as TMPD never investigated anything at Yokota, this is yet another angle that was never even explored. The more stones unturned, the more it appears there’s a wealth of clues at Yokota that TMPD never looked into. At this point, if they were to simply have conversations, not investigations, with Yokota denizens, it would be fruitful.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Thank you. I thought that the chance of him attacking Mikio from the back was low, that was my idea to explain the haphazardness of the attack. I didn't think Mikio was into martial arts, I just think that the fighting prowess of a small, lithe man is sometimes hard to estimate.

RSBM: Yes, we simply don't know re: martial arts. Even if he was trained, I think the conditions, the lack of a weapon, the shock of the situation--I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made unless he was some sort of professional.

My thought on Wikipedias and online Encyclopedias. As long as they provide the references, they are fine.

I totally agree. Sticking with the English wikipedia page on this case for now. Reference number 4 is a Japan Today article regarding Ichihashi's book about the Setagaya 'truth'. It may as well be referencing Harry Potter. Reference 12, no sources cited, the aforementioned Tokyo Weekender list of 5 unsolved crimes that asserts the Edwards USAF sand as fact without any kind of support. Many of the older articles contain information that has long-since been updated or corrected. Using these pages as a jumping off point is fine. I know you know this but, particularly for new people coming to this thread, we just have to be to be careful when taking a detail, when not established by a primary source, and then discussing it as fact.

No encyclopedia is ever impartial; even Britannica isn't. I have an edition of EB from the old time, interesting to see what they wrote then about the Setagaya murders when they just happened, btw. But yesterday I read the Korean Wiki about the murders. Of new information to me, they mention An Irie's account of Rei being prone to attacks of screaming and this is why the Miyazawas were almost the last ones to move away.

This is not the reason, as I understand it. The reason Mikio wanted to stay in the area for as long as possible was in order to keep Rei and Niina together in the catchment area to be able to attend the same school. Niina would look after him once there. But, on the other hand, Mikio had already accepted the offer from the City. After all, where in Tokyo would the family be able to move that would be *more* isolated than they already were. RE: Rei, there are conflicting accounts. Some say he was non-verbal and never made any noise, others say he was prone to shouting out randomly. Either way, we can infer that there was a sound disagreement of some sort as Mikio paid for soundproofing on both houses. That is worth remembering.

They were looking for new neighbors who wouldn't be bothered by Rei's episodes, or at least this is what Korean Wiki says.

That is unsubstantiated.

If true, that explains lack of sounds from the Miyazawas side that night - the unusual one, the stairs retracting, the neighbors heard, but if Rei was a screamer, perhaps the neighbors were desensitized to the sounds. (My own experience: one's brain is trying to find the most plausible explanation to the perceived.)

If this were true, why would the Chief / the investigators all have such a problem with it?

Thank you for referring me to An Irie's walking through the house; I am not too visual, so even 3-d models unless i hold them in my hands and look at them, won't tell me much. That scheme in the Japanese article worked the best for me.

Yes, the video is very clear. It gives you a sense of how narrow the house was, how brutal the struggle between the killer and Mikio would've been.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

One of my issues has been the knife being purchased at the market. If the killer was American, as some suspect, wouldn’t he stand out purchasing such a knife? However, if the knife was purchased from a booth, at a market where ONLY Americans were allowed to shop, he may not stand out.

RSBM: Thought-provoking questions here, Steve. We know for a fact that the TMPD descended on all the shops and vendors for that knife. You can bet they would've asked for video, sales records, interviewed employees. Now, without getting into territory regarding my POI, let's just pretend the killer was an Asian-American with enough Japanese to say "thank you" / "I don't need a bag." Of course, a cashier might have noticed him anyway. But it's also possible they weren't paying that much attention that day.

OR, it could be the sort of purchase that a cashier wouldn't think to mention. Let's say a valuable artefact had been stolen from a small, private museum in Setagaya. The TMPD would interview the security guard and he'd wrack his brains for any dodgy men, anyone eyeing up the artefact for too long / taking photos, anyone with a grudge against the locale etc. How many would consider the group of 15 American kids who came on a class visit? Hmm, I don't know. Of all the shops in Tokyo, the killer chose the one with the absent-minded cashier...

Alternatively, like you say, it's also possible the knife came to him, and he never had to leave base to acquire. Assuming he acquired it all and didn't just steal Aunt Dorothy's present that she was planning to bring home from her trip.

Once again, as TMPD never investigated anything at Yokota, this is yet another angle that was never even explored.

And to be clear, I am 100% they would have known about it and even considered it. But they never moved on it. The famous author/editor in Japan who I spoke to at length was very clear about it: "If it has occurred to you, Nic, I can promise you that it will have occurred to these men on Day 1. Not the TMPD but the detectives in Division One; we're talking about smart, hard-working people. But thoughts and action are two different things."

The more stones unturned, the more it appears there’s a wealth of clues at Yokota that TMPD never looked into. At this point, if they were to simply have conversations, not investigations, with Yokota denizens, it would be fruitful.

And as time marches on, the more important this becomes JMO. But I can give you a long list of crimes connected to that base that were either overlooked or the wing commander / powers that be actively pleaded with the local police force to not get involved as it would be handled internally. All these requests were granted. I wonder how often acquiescence is shown by TMPD generally when asked to be lenient...

 

[Charlot123]

On a practical note, how does one bring in a yanagiba knife unnoticed? They are 200mm – 310mm (7.8″ – 12″) in length, and sharp. I would assume putting it in a sheath and hiding in pants would be noticeable. The fanny pack might be too small. Of course, if one either lives close by, or drives, it is quite feasible, although I did not see the knife on the "intruder" in the reconstruction of the break-in. To me, the knife implies, either a short walk, or a drive by own car/motorcycle/bike.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

On a practical note, how does one bring in a yanagiba knife unnoticed? They are 200mm – 310mm (7.8″ – 12″) in length, and sharp. I would assume putting it in a sheath and hiding in pants would be noticeable. The fanny pack might be too small. Of course, if one either lives close by, or drives, it is quite feasible, although I did not see the knife on the "intruder" in the reconstruction of the break-in. To me, the knife implies, either a short walk, or a drive by own car/motorcycle/bike.

The dimensions are an interesting point, actually.

Bag dimensions: Length 21cm, width 27cm, width 9.5cm

Knife dimensions: blade 21cm, total length including handle 34cm.

So, it seems that the knife was longer than the bag? Either he zipped it to the handle with the handle sticking out or he slipped it in there at a diagonal?

Either way, it suggests it probably wouldn't be a good idea to walk around Tokyo all day with a knife handle sticking out of your bag. Remember the public mood at the time had shifted and the late 90s were fraught with a sudden wave of violence. The Kobe Child Murders, the Hostess Murders, the Hachioji Supermarket Murders, to say nothing of the Sarin Gas Attacks. I think, particularly at a time of year when people are going home to family and so on, it's reasonable to conclude that a lone male walking around at night with a knife in his bag, his face covered etc -- this would've likely been noted somewhere along the way, let alone him being injured after the murders.

So yes, for me, it feels like a car is a likely solution.

 

[Cryptic]

Is it possible a private vendor would have a booth selling Japanese cutlery?

One of my issues has been the knife being purchased at the market. If the killer was American, as some suspect, wouldn’t he stand out purchasing such a knife?

Yes, I think its entirely possible for a vendor to be selling Japanese knives. Now that I think about it, the cuckoo clocks at the German base where I lived may of been offered by a stall vendor, and not by the Exchange. So vendors with higher end local products may not be unheard of.

In regards to an American standing out by purchasing a knife, he would not really stand out- unless he was a frequent customer. A significant majority of, if not nearly all, stall customers would be American. Sales could be pretty constant.

Souvenirs and Servicemen go together. Servicemen also like giving local "trophy" gifts to family back home. And, noticeable number servicemen have very little contact with local stores or locals outside the entertainment and major tourist areas. So, the stall is also convenient.

Let the inlaws think you meticulously selected the knives from a Zen like store owner in the wilds of metro Tokyo. Sort of haiku like: Scattered cherry blossoms. The windswept street at dusk, The store beckons....

No need to tell them that you bought them on base after ordering a 'burger n' fries from the food stall next door- right?