Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[Vern]

If an expert is given a task of inspecting/deciphering the evidence or appearance at a crime scene and compiling a report for investigator or court based on their experience, education and professional background. Shouldn’t it be of just that? The crime scene you were tasked with?

The blood spatter expert, as an example, if they are tasked to inspect the F tree and offer suggestion as to how it may have occurred, should he also be considering anyones Facebook posts in his report..? Isn’t investigating or implicating suspects not his job at all..?

Wouldn’t an unwillingness to change your expert opinion of the crime scene and refusing to amend your report fit a specific subject due Facebook posts, etc, be a good thing and like completely standard practice everywhere outside of Carroll County.

All MOO

Wouldn't a supposed 'expert' who flat out testified that she would not change her narrative opinion (of this being an Odinistic Ritual Sacrificial Killing) that she formed before even seeing the crime scene evidence even if the suspect flat out told 'the expert' that they tossed the sticks on a body(ies) only to cover them up be a bad thing?

IMO, we can all expect that the same information will be pulled out via questionning and used by the prosecutors during any future cross-examination of the Defence expert to show her bias to the defence. I don't think any 'impartial' expert worth their salt (or pay cheque) would just blatently ignore what a suspect had to tell them as she testified today she would do.

I wonder what any jury would think of that.

 

[Vern]

Ceremonial box cutter.

Sigh.

When exactly did they search that dumpster?! In 2022? Almost six years after the murders?!

Given the fact that LE actually searched the dumpster at RA's workplace for the box cutter, possibly "years afterwards", I'm wondering if during the one-of-umpteen-confessions by RA (the one where he stated he used a box cutter), he also mentionned when and where he tossed it.

Seems to me that the murder weapon itself was not found at the crime scene based upon the search warrant seeking out cutting instruments etc. That search warrant was carried out between his questionning and his arrest. They obviously knew they were looking for a sharp edged weapon and wouldn't it be serendipidous if the autopsy findings found that the weapon used was 'similar to' or 'was' a boxcutter? That could explain the "information that only the killer would know" bit.

And, it's also possible, IMO, that RA chose to keep this boxcutter as a little trophy of his misdeeds. Washing it off and taking it back to his workplace, because who would ever suspect RA the Pharmacy guy of these heinous murders. And why keep the murder weapon at home 'just in case' someone did actually suspect him? You don't want to get caught with that! Keeps his trophy for years. Possibly using it to slice open the cases of items coming into the store that he's got to restock. Possibly just kept it on his desk to look at every day. His little "reminder". No one would have thought twice about it being there on display. Just a tool of the trade to open stock boxes with.

BUT, after he gets pulled in for the questioning, he definitely knows they're now onto him ... so better toss out that murder weapon he's been keeping in his workplace darnit. They arrest him. He then discloses these deets during his confession. Perhaps akin to "they'll never get the boxcutter I used to kill them though to track this to me because I tossed it into the dumpster at work after they questionned me" kind of deal. LE learns of those deets and heads over in the hopes that it's still there.

The autopsy report itself should be interesting when it comes out at trial. Moreso than the autopsy notes discussed today IMO.

 

[katydid23]

If an expert is given a task of inspecting/deciphering the evidence or appearance at a crime scene and compiling a report for investigator or court based on their experience, education and professional background. Shouldn’t it be of just that? The crime scene you were tasked with?

NO, not if you look at the crime scene, and make statements that cannot be verified as credible.

If she claims that she has deciphered 'many' Odinist Ritual Sacrifice crime scenes previously, shouldn't we learn about those supposed crime scenes? How many has she looked at?
...Respectfully snipped for focus...

 

[iamshadow21]

NO, not if you look at the crime scene, and make statements that cannot be verified as credible.

If she claims that she has deciphered 'many' Odinist Ritual Sacrifice crime scenes previously, shouldn't we learn about those supposed crime scenes? How many has she looked at?

...Respectfully snipped for focus...

Yeah, I was to see some credible references before I put this expert above a psychic or internet random.

If there were 'many' ritual sacrifices happening all over the US, enough for her personally to consult on them, it would be known about in mainstream media.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Wouldn't a supposed 'expert' who flat out testified that she would not change her narrative opinion (of this being an Odinistic Ritual Sacrificial Killing) that she formed before even seeing the crime scene evidence even if the suspect flat out told 'the expert' that they tossed the sticks on a body(ies) only to cover them up be a bad thing?

IMO, we can all expect that the same information will be pulled out via questionning and used by the prosecutors during any future cross-examination of the Defence expert to show her bias to the defence. I don't think any 'impartial' expert worth their salt (or pay cheque) would just blatently ignore what a suspect had to tell them as she testified today she would do.

I wonder what any jury would think of that.

Why would an expert change their opinion to fit a suspect narrative ? If the blood splatter expert said that the F tree was caused by the thumb and forefinger finger of a hand on the tree and then learned that Richard Allen had no hands, does he say that isn’t true anymore? I don’t get why the expert would change ever their report to fit a suspect ? Ever.

 

[Niner]

So - no next hearing date yet? TIA!

 

[FromGermany1]

So, you think guilt.

I think maybe some regret more so than guilt, especially if that person set out to kill on purpose with one not being an intentional victim.

I don't think a lot of hardcore killers feel guilt because they don't view their victims as real people.

The way both girls were treated before and post death is different so there is a possibility one was collateral damage and the other not.

Not sure collateral damage is the right wording.

JMO

Many members thought of "collateral damage" from early on. If I remember well, mostly Libby was the intended victim and Abby the poor thing, which had to be sacrificed by the killer only for being a witness. For a long time I didn't know, why always Libby should have been the main victim - and now it seems to be true: maybe she was indeed his main victim.
When I read, that RA was glaring at Libby's grandparents in court, I had the feeling, RA wanted to express something to these persons, like for example: You know, why this murder happened! And if not, think about it finally! I'm not as guilty as you think!
Maybe, my imagination runs wild.

 

[MiniMoo]

Can't find Day 3 of the Delphi Hearing on CourtTV so had to resort to Nancy Grace.

According to Susan Hendricks on it - it seems RA saw the crime photos as they were placed across from him and he actually pushed them away and put his head down for a minute.

She was more or less watching him to see what his reactions would be like.

It was also brought up about his voice never being heard even in a whisper and Libby's recording on that fatal day.

I was wondering how accurate is a voice analysis?

That was talked about as well.

It could very well be one way of definitely finding out whether his voice matches the one Libby caught on her cell phone of BG with what sounds like: "Down the hill, guys."

Another thing mentioned was that the girls may have been mutilated.

 

[Romans12]

Many members thought of "collateral damage" from early on. If I remember well, mostly Libby was the intended victim and Abby the poor thing, which had to be sacrificed by the killer only for being a witness. For a long time I didn't know, why always Libby should have been the main victim - and now it seems to be true: maybe she was indeed his main victim.
When I read, that RA was glaring at Libby's grandparents in court, I had the feeling, RA wanted to express something to these persons, like for example: You know, why this murder happened! And if not, think about it finally! I'm not as guilty as you think!
Maybe, my imagination runs wild.

Why do you believe he was glaring at her grandparents? Because someone who was there said he was?

 

[MiniMoo]

Many members thought of "collateral damage" from early on. If I remember well, mostly Libby was the intended victim and Abby the poor thing, which had to be sacrificed by the killer only for being a witness. For a long time I didn't know, why always Libby should have been the main victim - and now it seems to be true: maybe she was indeed his main victim.
When I read, that RA was glaring at Libby's grandparents in court, I had the feeling, RA wanted to express something to these persons, like for example: You know, why this murder happened! And if not, think about it finally! I'm not as guilty as you think!
Maybe, my imagination runs wild.

I saw the video (link posted recently on this thread) with Libby's grandparents interview and it seems they didn't know him at all on a personal level.

Either he has a penetrating stare which is just him naturally or he was trying to intimidate them. I would say it worked if he was after intimidation.

I want to know why he had it in for Libby.

He needs to stop glaring as it won't be good for him if he does that during the trial that is for sure.

JMO

 

[susane7]

I am wondering this too. Has he stopped confessing / when did he stop confessing? Does he believe he's not allowed to say anything, and is he allowed to say anything I guess. No one seems to be asking him. Is the judge allowed to ask him anything? Even just something like "Mr. Allen, is there anything you'd like to say?"

He started to confessing in Abril because he found God and wanted to "clean" his soul. He wanted to find his mother and wife in heaven but he think he will not go for the heaven because what he did to the girls. The family pushed him back and said they don't want listen that, he was confused because they messed with him in the prison blabla. He complained to Dr. Wala that he think his wife don't believe in him. He also asked at his family if they still would love him if he had commited the crime. The family again pushed him back, that it wasn't true. It was like talking with a wall. When he saw his family didn't accept his confessions, the confessions decreased but not fully stopped (I think he still confessed to guards, inmates, Dr. Wala, etc). Sometimes he stopped having contact with his family. In january 2024 he talked with his mother and said he wanted to talk with her and to say the truth. She denied again. He also said to Dr. Wala that between God (save an clean his soul confessing what he did) and the family (since his family didn't accept his confessions), he can't choose God.

That's what I understood from the MS episode. I still have to catch up on what happened yesterday.

 

[girlhasnoname]

#Justice4Abby&Libby

Photo by Crimelights.com
Oct 29, 2022

 

[girlhasnoname]

Those shoulders. Same as BG. RA=BG.

Yes, and the same eye and nose shape as well. RA=BG=Killer. The body frame is exactly like RA's. I've obsessively looked at over 50 pictures of RA in different settings, pre arrest and post arrest. I couldn't help myself.

RA is toast, his 61 confessions were just the cherry on top of the Sundae. Even if a few get tossed, there will be enough of them allowed in and enough supporting evidence to send Ricky away. The State has a solid case to find him guilty BARD.

All JMO

 

[Salah11]

Delphi murders: Expert reveals details about girls’ deaths

Delphi murder hearings continued into a third day Thursday, unveiling new details of the case including that the girls’ throats were slit. But it’s still unclear how they died.

myfox8.com

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April

This is what jumped out at me. I assume this is a legitimate news source as being from the UK I don’t know who’s who apart from Fox and this has Fox in its name.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That would be Aine's handsome hubby, Kevin Greenlee.

ETA: Aine and Kevin make up the anti-defense podcast, The Murder Sheet.

MOO

TMS is definitely not anti defense. They had a lot of respect for R&B before they received the leaked CS photos and then the recent message leaks from the SM cranks and Doo Process Gang. They even complemented Rozzi today on his performance in Court. I believe they are committed to calling out any negative or potential law breaking behavior and rightly so.

Is Aine's husband handsome? Why would that even matter what his physical appearance looks like? He's always come across as honest, polite and knowledgeable on their podcasts. Can't say that for most of the others.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

Yes, and the same eye and nose shape as well. RA=BG=Killer. The body frame is exactly like RA's. I've obsessively looked at over 50 pictures of RA in different settings, pre arrest and post arrest. I couldn't help myself.

RA is toast, his 61 confessions were just the cherry on top of the Sundae. Even if a few get tossed, there will be enough of them allowed in and enough supporting evidence to send Ricky away. The State has a solid case to find him guilty BARD.

All JMO

Which BG ? Because today we learned through Holeman that YBG=OBG=BG too! all bridge guys are one guy and no one else regardless of whether the ISP told people to throw out the old posters of OBG and definitely do not put the posters side-by-side because OBG is not a person of interest and Holeman was just riffing when he said that OBG was MP searching. This has always been his opinion, it didn’t that change to support his timeline because he has literally no evidence to state a TOD.

So now we just have “same guy bridge guy”? He is quite the shapeshifter. Aged 30 years in an hour.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

TMS is definitely not anti defense. They had a lot of respect for R&B before they received the leaked CS photos and then the recent message leaks from the SM cranks and Doo Process Gang. They even complemented Rozzi today on his performance in Court. I believe they are committed to calling out any negative or potential law breaking behavior and rightly so.

Is Aine's husband handsome? Why would that even matter what his physical appearance looks like? He's always come across as honest, polite and knowledgeable on their podcasts. Can't say that for most of the others.

JMO

I think that once you read the transcripts, you will see the hours of important testimony and overwhelming details that are scrubbed from this broadcast. They are staunch anti-defense. They don’t share any detail of testimony of defense witnesses. They support one biased narrative and intentionally do not include content that supports theories outside of their own.

If you listened tonight, you would be very aware of their mocking coverage of the expert. Did you hear anything she said about the crime scene or her history other than Aine condescendingly making fun of “magical thinking” because Aine doesn’t comprehend the subject matter ? If you don’t understand the testimony being given as a “reporter” wouldn’t you want to do some research before recording your show so you don’t sound like an absolute dolt making fun of something for being “fake” when it’s an real thing in that experts field.

This podcaster thinks this expert is a “garbage witness” (direct quote) because they don’t believe someone can be an expert in this field.. but isn’t she friends with the Toth owner? Does she want to tell the toth how ridiculous she thinks having knowledge about “reading runes” and holding religious ceremonies is?

All Moo

Magical thinking | Psychology & Cognitive Development

Magical thinking, the belief that one’s ideas, thoughts, actions, words, or use of symbols can influence the course of events in the material world. Magical thinking presumes a causal link between one’s inner, personal experience and the external physical world. Examples include beliefs that the

www.britannica.com

Re-calling Magical Thinking: Different, yet Connected Views on Magical Thinking

This essay recalls the concept of ‘magical thinking’ and provides a scooping description of its utilitarian value. ‘Magical thinking’ is a classic notion in cognitive anthropology, and it is seen as a utilitarian cognitive pattern that provides a pla...

www.qeios.com

 

[grannygates]

Delphi murders: Expert reveals details about girls’ deaths

Delphi murder hearings continued into a third day Thursday, unveiling new details of the case including that the girls’ throats were slit. But it’s still unclear how they died.

myfox8.com

This is what jumped out at me. I assume this is a legitimate news source as being from the UK I don’t know who’s who apart from Fox and this has Fox in its name.

She went on CourtTV and talked about her opinion on the Franks Motion. There are a lot of familiar faces with this case on CourtTv so I’m not really connecting how this is a bad thing but I’m sure I’ll learn soon. MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

If you refer to previous transcripts, you would note that counsel has not been able to simply walk in to their clients cell. They have to make arrangements in advance and they’re not able to bring any belongings with them.

We will hear from the warden and from the internal affairs officer who work at the prison regarding their own prison protocol regarding photocopying legal documents.

I understand that there’s a strong need to find fault in this particular situation but I am placing it with the office that accepted the stack of papers from the intern with allegedly no instruction of what to do with it? We know that the law office has to call in advance so this wasn’t discussed? There is no affidavit no letter, no correspondence from the prison confirming this story that they were unsure of what to do with the documents.

A prison would already have a protocol in place of what to do with an inmates legal documents and I’m assuming they would just follow that if they were unsure. We have never heard of a single event where the defense lawyers are dictating to the prison how they should operate their institution. Or else Richard Allen would not be in segregation in a state of psychosis, with a videocamera and a felon pecking at him 24 hours a day.

We are certainly giving a lot of grace to a prison that held onto discovery documents.. in what secure storage? We have no idea where they were storing this protected discovery. We don’t know who was reading it. We all hear about the gag order all the time. Aren’t we concerned about where this missing protected discovery was?

All MOO

This would be a completely moot point if Rozzi or Baldwin had done their jobs and hand delivered this info to RA in person.

This was a big deal, not just a commissary order form. This is on the Defense, they couldn't be bothered to make the long, arduous drive and be inconvenienced, as they have stated many times, by the protocols to deliver it themselves.

Another example of their unprofessionalism.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Everyone has their own little quirk of a case they get fixated on (who fed those McStay dogs )

For me on this case, it's the darned footnote in the Franks about the rope that the defence claimed might have been used to hang the victim by her feet.

I always knew that was wild speculation, because her hair would be full of blood and there would be ligature marks around her ankles.

But now we know from yesterdays reporting that the defence always knew that was an outright fabrication ... and put it in there anyway.

Where did they get the idea? My guess is 'trusted consultant' MW's mining of social media.

IMO