Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[Boxer]

I need to go back and listen again to where the MS discusses this part of the blood analysis, but the expert apparently testified that blood spatter and pooling patterns showed she was in motion and so my thought is that she braced herself on the tree as she was trying, though wounded, to move away from her assailant. Speculation on my part.

Good speculation.

 

[photographer4]

Now that we have been given real insight into the last moments of Abby and Libby's lives it does open our eyes up a bit more as to what the situation was and wasn't.

I am more convinced by the Prosecuter's expert, Patrick Cicero, than the expert for the Defense, Dawn Perlmutter.

What else?

The "Undoing" aspect to it seems reasonable although I reckon he was just trying to conceal them from being seen and covering his tracks somewhat.

Libby's phone movement is interesting as well. It supports that they weren't taken somewhere else then returned because from the time BG was captured at 2:13 pm (I think it was 2:13 pm) on it - the phone stops moving around 20 minutes later and doesn't move again from that point.

I wonder, however, why the perpetrator made Abby dress in Libby's clothing though.

Actually, if the phone was in airplane mode - would the device record movement like steps or direction still? I ask because someone up thread said the device was flooded with texts in the wee hours while the kids were still missing and I am wondering if it was off entirely or in airplane mode or how this is possible? IMO. Moo.

 

[photographer4]

Kak saw his father jam his half brother's head in a toilet and break his jaw or something at an early age.
MOO Kak lost all tethering to truth at that time and devoted himself solely to pleasing his father to avoid abuse.
He is a gifted manipulator and liar, especially at intuiting what people want to hear.

I hear ya but I will never say he’s gifted. There are a lot of words I could use to describe my thoughts on him but they’re all bannable offenses.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree. If he is desperately trying to bring himself peace, I think he is a great risk to himself.

Agree- and I am concerned about what others inside might do to him.
The Killer of TWO innocent children, TWO teenage girls.
He will not have any friends inside.

I hope he lasts until trial, at least.

After that, I could care less what happens to him.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Ever skeptical I wonder: could someone have put Lg’s hand where the “print” / “fehu” depending on which one believes, was eventually found? Eg: as she’s dying? Or post mortem? If she’s mortally wounded, her hand in theory would go if possible to the injury to stop blood flow. Why is her hand on a tree?

People who are in shock from being mortally wounded out in the woods with a madman, do not always rationally decide to try and stem the blood flow with their hands. She may have been trying to hold herself up as she tried to escape and was falling? She may have been about to pass out ?

 

[katydid23]

Were the videos of the confessions properly saved or have they also been accidentally lost like the first 2 weeks/2 months of interviews? Honest question.

The confessions by phone have been catalogued and saved.It is an ongoing process as there are still hundreds of hours to go through.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ever skeptical I wonder: could someone have put Lg’s hand where the “print” / “fehu” depending on which one believes, was eventually found? Eg: as she’s dying? Or post mortem? If she’s mortally wounded, her hand in theory would go if possible to the injury to stop blood flow. Why is her hand on a tree?

I don’t know of any guidelines for where a person would or should place their hand when they are bleeding out.. and to death.

 

[katydid23]

Norse Runes The Complete Guide [Updated] - Surflegacy

Norse runes find their origins in the Germanic-Viking tradition and were also used by the mysterious Celtic people as a divinatory and magical tool associated with the traditional form of Druidic divination expressed through the reading of the Ogham; the pieces of wood carved with symbols...

surflegacy.net

MOO, any set of sticks makes runes.

Exactly. Grab branches off a fallen tree and toss them and 'runes' would be magically formed on the ground.

 

[katydid23]

Cell phones do not turn themselves back on without human interaction. They can turn themselves off though (I.e. when the battery dies).

I still have not heard where anyone definitively said it was actually turned back on manually.

I have heard about how a dying battery can create a very long downtime, seeming like it is off, but at the end there can be a final burst of energy and it can appear as if it was turned back on but was not done so manually.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Good speculation.

That’s the way I heard it.

 

[zh0r4]

It’s still one of my obsessing points.

In this interview, KG asks Carter about ME at scene and time of death. Start around 13:00.

Thank you for digging this up, you rock!

DC says “yes they were there” but doesn’t remember their name, and doesn’t specify if the ME is a forensic pathologist or a coroner (I believe this can differ per state re: if a ME technically needs a M.D. or not).

So I googled to see if there are any forensic pathologists in Carroll Co, Indiana. I found this CC website link:

https://www.countyoffice.org/in-medical-coroner/

But when I click on it, 403. Pic related:



For further explanation:



I found this forensic pathologist that does work within Indiana, Dr. Feczko:

John Feczko, MD, PhD - Pathology Consultants

John Feczko, MD, PhD, is a board-certified Cytopathologist and fellowship-trained forensic pathologist, trained at Indiana University Medical School. He received his BA in Biology at Wabash College and attended Indiana University Medical School-combined MD/PhD program, receiving his PhD in Human...

path-consult.com

I’m hoping for the girls, there was a thorough report and a forensic pathologist was able to conduct an autopsy ASAP. It is a bit upsetting to consider otherwise.

AJMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Dave Bangert's twitter has been posted here; he usually does some pretty unbiased reporting.
He did an interesting bit on the blood stain expert.
I'd like to see a video of how the expert came to his conclusion.
Also included is info about the phone coming back on.
Last is the KAK connection.

This is sad:
"Murphy testified that investigators he was working with had monitored social media accounts of the men and that “they seemed to know things that no one else would know unless they were involved or were there.”

When Baldwin had him compare crime scene photos with Facebook posts by one of the men they had been investigating, Murphy held his head in his hands and wept.

“That’s hard for you?” Baldwin asked.

“It sucks,” Murphy said, wiping his eyes. “It sucks.”"

‘Safekeeping’ order ends for Richard Allen. Pivotal pretrial testimony in play in Delphi murders

Sometimes chilling testimony Thursday gave differing views of the scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017

www.basedinlafayette.com

 

[Yemelyan]

Thank you for digging this up, you rock!

DC says “yes they were there” but doesn’t remember their name, and doesn’t specify if the ME is a forensic pathologist or a coroner (I believe this can differ per state re: if a ME technically needs a M.D. or not).

So I googled to see if there are any forensic pathologists in Carroll Co, Indiana. I found this CC website link:

https://www.countyoffice.org/in-medical-coroner/

But when I click on it, 403. Pic related:
View attachment 522146


For further explanation:



I found this forensic pathologist that does work within Indiana, Dr. Feczko:

John Feczko, MD, PhD - Pathology Consultants

John Feczko, MD, PhD, is a board-certified Cytopathologist and fellowship-trained forensic pathologist, trained at Indiana University Medical School. He received his BA in Biology at Wabash College and attended Indiana University Medical School-combined MD/PhD program, receiving his PhD in Human...

path-consult.com

I’m hoping for the girls, there was a thorough report and a forensic pathologist was able to conduct an autopsy ASAP. It is a bit upsetting to consider otherwise.

AJMO.

As stated in a post above by @steeltowngirl, the autopsies were performed in Terre Haute/Vigo County by Dr. Roland Kohr -- he was a forensic pathologist and very well-qualified. Here's a bit about him that was written when he retired in 2021: Dr. Roland Kohr retires

 

[zh0r4]

Feb 14, 2017
It was announced in a 2:15 p.m. press conference Tuesday in the rotunda of the Delphi City Building two bodies were found on the bank of Deer Creek at approximately 12:15 p.m. Sgt. Kim Riley of the Indiana State Police, along with Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said no positive identification has been made however, the nearly 24-hour search for two missing teens is all but halted. County Coroner Jordan Cree will determine the identification of the bodies.

Police identify bodies found at Deer Creek - Carroll County Comet

*UPDATE* Police identify bodies found at Deer Creek The two bodies found at the Deer Creek Tuesday have been positively identified as missing Delphi Community Middle School students, 14 year-old Liberty German and 13 year-old Abigail Williams.Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby called the...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Feb 14, 2017

https://twitter.com/x/status/831662462327992321

Feb 15, 2017
Authorities say autopsies are taking longer than expected on two bodies found near a northern Indiana creek during a search for two missing 13-year-old girls.

State Police Sgt. Kim Riley says a pathologist who began the autopsies Wednesday morning in Terre Haute was still performing them around noon Wednesday.

He says a news conference will be held sometime Wednesday to release the names of the two people and preliminary autopsy findings. Authorities suspect foul play in the deaths.

Autopsies confirm bodies are those of 2 missing Indiana girls

Authorities say two bodies found Tuesday near a northern Indiana creek are those of two 13-year-old girls who went missing and their deaths are being investigated as homicides.

www.wndu.com

Dr Roland Kohr - Terre Haute

Richard Allen’s attorneys file motion to suppress ‘confessions’ - Carroll County Comet

Richard Allen’s attorneys have filed a motion to suppress “incriminating statements” allegedly made by their client to inmates and employees at Westville Correctional Facility during his year-long stay there. They say the statements were involuntary, and obtained in violation of their client’s...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Thank you so much for digging this up. So it looks like Cree was the coroner who would have identified them. Then they were transferred to Dr. Kohr in Terre Haute for autopsy.

When I read “taking longer than expected”, I interpret that as they are being stored properly at Terre Haute with the pathologist (who could be delayed because they have other autopsies to conduct first). This is good, from my understanding they were sent to the forensic pathologist after identification and stored properly before autopsy.

Now, why and how was there not a time of death in the pathology report? They said in court recently the pathologist couldn’t determine a TOD?

 

[Inthedetails]

I still have not heard where anyone definitively said it was actually turned back on manually.

I have heard about how a dying battery can create a very long downtime, seeming like it is off, but at the end there can be a final burst of energy and it can appear as if it was turned back on but was not done so manually.

For years (years!) I've wondered if they were put in a car before they ended up at their final location, but I'm letting that idea go now, based on the phone activity.

jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Ever skeptical I wonder: could someone have put Lg’s hand where the “print” / “fehu” depending on which one believes, was eventually found? Eg: as she’s dying? Or post mortem? If she’s mortally wounded, her hand in theory would go if possible to the injury to stop blood flow. Why is her hand on a tree?

My guess would be she was desperately trying to remain upright to try to escape RA who had ripped her throat open with a box opener.
A young girl, seconds from dying, trying to simply live, and there are questions about why she put her hand on a tree.
A better question would be to the defense and why they have perpetuated this entire Odin nonsense and why some people after hearing the last three days of real testimony still are trying to prop it up.

 

[Salah11]

Why are some so hung up on the time of death?



They have the photos of the bridge and Abby and the video and RA being seen walking towards his car. So they have a time frame of when the crime occurred and a exact time of death doesn’t change that evidence.

Moo

 

[zh0r4]

Why are some so hung up on the time of death?



They have the photos of the bridge and Abby and the video and RA being seen walking towards his car. So they have a time frame of when the crime occurred and a exact time of death doesn’t change that evidence.

Moo

Because time of death is imperative for a homicide conviction. It is like the foundation of the house (rest of the case). Without a TOD you don’t have a timeline beyond a reasonable doubt. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t know of any guidelines for where a person would or should place their hand when they are bleeding out.. and to death.

So sad.

 

[katydid23]

Why are some so hung up on the time of death?



They have the photos of the bridge and Abby and the video and RA being seen walking towards his car. So they have a time frame of when the crime occurred and a exact time of death doesn’t change that evidence.

Moo

I think they are desperately clinging to the made up scenario that the girls left the scene and then were brought back later by a clan of Odinists....