Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[photographer4]

It seems KAK might have lied about his dad doing it with the idea of plea leverage on his other crimes?

So he’d throw his dad under the bus for a major crime he didn’t actually commit just to save his own bacon? Interesting idea. I can see how this may have seemed appealing to him but not sure why he’d do this unless the state or his lawyer suggested a deal before he said these things? Eg: was one suggested if he talked and then he coughed it up or did he come up and out with it on his own without prompting? Just curious

 

[m00c0w]

So if KK was confirmed to have the same class of handgun as the bullet found on the scene, and KK also gave an incredibly detailed confession to the police about him and his father‘s involvement in the crime and it has been determined through digital investigation that there is no connection between RA to TK or KK, then is KK still a suspect in the crime?

MOO

What do you mean by “same class of handgun”? I thought you said he had the same make and model because it was so popular.

 

[katydid23]

Have you read the Franks Motion? Do you think that someone that has expertise in this subject matter would be an interesting guest to have on a court TV program?

Have you read both the experts testimony in court and compared it to the Court TV program and determined that she did not provide any further detail regarding her opinion outside of what was accessible in the Franks?

So does that mean she based her expert opinion upon what she read in the Frank's motion?

I think that this is a ridiculously petty argument fabricated by the prosecution to somehow discredit this person for previously being contacted by a court television program to offer an expert opinion based on the Franks Motion.

MOO

wow----so her opinion about whether this was a crime committed by Odinidsts was BASED upon the Frank's motion, which was created to prove that this crime was committed by Odinists?

 

[MiniMoo]

Now that we have been given real insight into the last moments of Abby and Libby's lives it does open our eyes up a bit more as to what the situation was and wasn't.

I am more convinced by the Prosecuter's expert, Patrick Cicero, than the expert for the Defense, Dawn Perlmutter.

What else?

The "Undoing" aspect to it seems reasonable although I reckon he was just trying to conceal them from being seen and covering his tracks somewhat.

Libby's phone movement is interesting as well. It supports that they weren't taken somewhere else then returned because from the time BG was captured at 2:13 pm (I think it was 2:13 pm) on it - the phone stops moving around 20 minutes later and doesn't move again from that point.

I wonder, however, why the perpetrator made Abby dress in Libby's clothing though.

 

[Boxer]

If the car KaK / his dad were said to have been in had been there that day, how did HH store cam not pick it up? Could it have gone another way? If yes, did Le look at other cams? Ring cams, other biz? Traffic cams? License plate scanners? Not sure what might have been available to them at the time or how they were positive kak and his dad weren’t there?

Kak is a know liar - any chance he gave some accurate details mixed with false? Eg: could it not have been a red jeep? Etc. moooo

Kak saw his father jam his half brother's head in a toilet and break his jaw or something at an early age.
MOO Kak lost all tethering to truth at that time and devoted himself solely to pleasing his father to avoid abuse.
He is a gifted manipulator and liar, especially at intuiting what people want to hear.

 

[m00c0w]

It would’ve been far more compelling testimony if he was able to provide any video recording of his experiment proving his theory.

A thick solid 7” inch long line, that fills all the grooves and niches of the bark, is hard to imagine being created by the amount blood that was transferred onto the hand from another part of the body (there is no cut on the hand) and that this line was caused by one simple swipe of the hand in a downward motion. I would like to know what quantity of blood would’ve been required to make that that very intentional looking 7 inch line solid line.

I would’ve appreciated if this expert video recorded his experiment to prove his point, because it is a hard theory to get behind when looking at the actual image. I understand he did a lot of different experiments before getting to this particular one.

MOO

Sadly, according to testimony yesterday, she would have had massive arterial and vascular bleeding from the wounds to her neck. I have absolutely zero doubt that there would have been enough blood to leave such a mark even if she was not directly injured on the hand. It’s not like she had a minor injury that results in minor bleeding. The type of injury described would have resulted in just an enormous volume of blood being lost very quickly. I think the blood spatter expert has a pretty good handle on what to expect from that situation.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

If he were to plead guilty, could the court force him to allocute his crimes? To say exactly what happened? It’s possible he wants to spare his family hearing the details. And it seems they perhaps don’t want to hear them as they have left the courtroom accordingly for such testimony.

It’s interesting to me that he’s said to have made all these confessions but has not made any remarks in court. Why would he not stand up and start saying all the things to the judge if he really wanted the judge to know / everyone to know?

Ultimately, he instructs his lawyers. If he says he’s gonna plead guilty they can caution against it and argue why it’s a bad plan with him but they can’t do whatever they want. They must carry out his instructions.

I’d like to know - if they patently disagree with a client’s decision on a case - can a defense counsel appointed by the state simply quit the case and let someone else pick it up? Any pros or cons of this is allowed?

Who knows what his lawyers tell him.

 

[Yemelyan]

Ever skeptical I wonder: could someone have put Lg’s hand where the “print” / “fehu” depending on which one believes, was eventually found? Eg: as she’s dying? Or post mortem? If she’s mortally wounded, her hand in theory would go if possible to the injury to stop blood flow. Why is her hand on a tree?

I need to go back and listen again to where the MS discusses this part of the blood analysis, but the expert apparently testified that blood spatter and pooling patterns showed she was in motion and so my thought is that she braced herself on the tree as she was trying, though wounded, to move away from her assailant. Speculation on my part.

 

[ClearAhead]

I’ve seen this “diminished mental capacity” or low IQ frequently discussed as some level of defense or excuse that this person would somehow be incapable of murder and I just want to make mention that the defense of Robert Pickton, the Canadian serial killer who was alledged to have murdered 49 women, also used this exact same defense in his trial.

No one discounted Picktons own statements regarding his involvement in murdering 49 women nor did they believe that his suggested low IQ would excuse him of the responsibility he had in the murders of the women he was convicted for.

MOO

I think it’s totally inappropriate to compare EF to Robert Picton, who was convicted by indisputable evidence as opposed to say so. I’m sure you read EF can’t be placed at the crime scene when the murders took place. Perhaps he already explained why he said what he did about the spit but we don’t need to know as he wasn’t charged.

 

[photographer4]

Yeah MS seems to use this “confused” act to not include defense evidence. For those who are interested, I understand the discussion was that after the video ended the Google Health app recorded movement, I thought that it was nine minutes but of course I could be wrong will have to wait for that. And then it stopped. So the expert wasn’t really able to say what type of distance that would’ve covered in that time because it depends on how fast you’re walking, your gait etc. so all they know is that there was movement during that time period and then it stopped.

The witness agreed that there were no text messages received by the device for a long length of time (I think 10-12 hours as an approx) and then at 4:33am the phone was powered on and a flood of text messages (14) came in.

I think that the confusion that these podcaster‘s might have is that it took a while for the witness to agree that the 4:33 text messages were received by the device at that time and not sent to the device at that time. But eventually IMO everyone did agree that the phone was turned on and this flood of text messages was received at 4:33am.

All MOO my opinion and interpretation of events

Soooo if the kids weren’t found until the late morn or early afternoon the day after they were abducted, uh, how come they got a flood of texts at this time? Does this imply a lack of cell signal in the area that kinda came and went like it seems to do in certain areas of my town depending on cloud coverage and how angry the gods are with me on any given day? Or is there evidence the device of off or in airplane mode then powered on or released from airplane mode? Feel like I’m so far behind may never catch up so any help appreciated! Ty.

 

[photographer4]

Yeah MS seems to use this “confused” act to not include defense evidence. For those who are interested, I understand the discussion was that after the video ended the Google Health app recorded movement, I thought that it was nine minutes but of course I could be wrong will have to wait for that. And then it stopped. So the expert wasn’t really able to say what type of distance that would’ve covered in that time because it depends on how fast you’re walking, your gait etc. so all they know is that there was movement during that time period and then it stopped.

The witness agreed that there were no text messages received by the device for a long length of time (I think 10-12 hours as an approx) and then at 4:33am the phone was powered on and a flood of text messages (14) came in.

I think that the confusion that these podcaster‘s might have is that it took a while for the witness to agree that the 4:33 text messages were received by the device at that time and not sent to the device at that time. But eventually IMO everyone did agree that the phone was turned on and this flood of text messages was received at 4:33am.

All MOO my opinion and interpretation of events

It was turned on? So they know it was off? Who turned it on? When? How? Why ?!

 

[Vaderman]

Yes I have serious concerns about RA making it alive and well to face trial and verdict.
Just my opinion.

I agree. If he is desperately trying to bring himself peace, I think he is a great risk to himself.

 

[katydid23]

It would’ve been far more compelling testimony if he was able to provide any video recording of his experiment proving his theory.

A thick solid 7” inch long line, that fills all the grooves and niches of the bark, is hard to imagine being created by the amount blood that was transferred onto the hand from another part of the body (there is no cut on the hand) and that this line was caused by one simple swipe of the hand in a downward motion. I would like to know what quantity of blood would’ve been required to make that that very intentional looking 7 inch line solid line.

I would’ve appreciated if this expert video recorded his experiment to prove his point, because it is a hard theory to get behind when looking at the actual image. I understand he did a lot of different experiments before getting to this particular one.

MOO

How much blood would we expect from a cut carotid artery? I think quite enough blood to create a 7inch long line on the bark of a tree.

Wiki says that would mean 100 mL of blood would bleed out.

​

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Blood_squirt


In cut carotid arteries with 100 mL of blood through the heart at each beat (at 65 beats a minute), a completely severed artery will spurt blood for about ...

 

[Vaderman]

This will happen at trial, one would have thought, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

After hearing there were 60+ confessions, I don't see this one going to trial. MOO.

 

[zh0r4]

Do you have evidence it was 'powered on' again. From what I understand, there are other ways that can happen, besides a person manually turning it back on.

Cell phones do not turn themselves back on without human interaction. They can turn themselves off though (I.e. when the battery dies).

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I agree. If he is desperately trying to bring himself peace, I think he is a great risk to himself.

Yes I am much more concerned with him harming himself for this reason.
He was relieved and audibly sighed when the safekeeping was lifted. ( from accounts I have heard and read).
It worried me immediately.
All my opinion.

 

[zh0r4]

Another thing mentioned was that the girls may have been mutilated.

Antemortem or postmortem? Did they say? TIA

 

[photographer4]

I need to go back and listen again to where the MS discusses this part of the blood analysis, but the expert apparently testified that blood spatter and pooling patterns showed she was in motion and so my thought is that she braced herself on the tree as she was trying, though wounded, to move away from her assailant. Speculation on my part.

Interesting idea. I don’t know where / how she was wounded but based on what I read up above to this point it seems neck? I struggle to picture a person who’s cut on the neck moving their hand away from that injury unless it’s to ward off another possible injury / attack. I hope for a summary of testimony soon as it’s a lot to follow especially when I don’t entertain podcasts or YouTube really. Thanks!

 

[katydid23]

I’ve seen this “diminished mental capacity” or low IQ frequently discussed as some level of defense or excuse that this person would somehow be incapable of murder and I just want to make mention that the defense of Robert Pickton, the Canadian serial killer who was alledged to have murdered 49 women, also used this exact same defense in his trial.

No one discounted Picktons own statements regarding his involvement in murdering 49 women nor did they believe that his suggested low IQ would excuse him of the responsibility he had in the murders of the women he was convicted for.

MOO

Robert William Pickton's verbal and performance skills as reflected in the IQ test is below average but his reasoning appears to be above average, an expert witness on intelligence testified Monday.

Larry Krywaniuk told the B.C. Supreme Court in New Westminster the average score of an IQ test is 100 and Pickton scored 80 in verbal skills and 95 in performance skills.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pickton-s-scores-in-iq-test-below-average-court-told-1.676233

So does a grown man with the intelligence level of a 7 yr old have above average reasoning ability? I am not sure that EF was considered as intelligent as Pickton.

 

[MiniMoo]

Antemortem or postmortem? Did they say? TIA

It was brought up as he mentioned partial decapitation. A bit on - mutilation.

I would have to probably listen to it again.