Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[cenazoic]

If Wiki refused it could allude to the TMPD not being able to prove the leaked information is false so it’s still up there.

There’s a difference between ‘not able to prove’ and ‘unwilling to provide proof’; in any case, this appears to be a moot point since Nic said the reason was that Wiki demanded a court order.

USAF military travels frequently, and this is another base close by Yakota. Does anyone share this opinion?

No In my time in the AF (early-mid 90s) at any rate, the AF was the service least likely to move you around a lot; even less so families. Now, depending on your job, you might get sent TDY somewhere (this is a temporary reassignment, often a week-monthish) but your family wouldn’t go with you.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

There’s a difference between ‘not able to prove’ and ‘unwilling to provide proof’; in any case, this appears to be a moot point since Nic said the reason was that Wiki demanded a court order.

Requesting a deletion and then being unwilling to provide any proof would be very farfetched. It would be no wonder why they’d be rejected.
Going as far as demanding a court order is also very extreme especially when the request is from the metropolitan police based on that it could hinder an investigation and cause misinformation because of the way it is presented. Wiki editors are just volunteers that work with the website, so I don’t see why the need for so much resistance here. Even just editing the content would probably suffice but they haven’t managed it. Odd.

My opinions continue to evolve and formulate, so I decided to listen to "Faceless" today for the THIRD time, in entirety. It continues to be thoroughly engaging. Nic, I can't commend you enough. Thanks for the work you put into it. As I consider it THE reference source, it brought up more questions..

I believe Miura High School may be a potential short term stop for the POI. I haven't looked at their yearbooks yet, but wonder if this may hold clues. USAF military travels frequently, and this is another base close by Yakota. Does anyone share this opinion?

I apologize, as I HATE when others bicker with Nic. However, I still think the skater angle is something to consider. In the podcast, Nic agrees with other skaters opinions the clothing didn't match what skaters wear, ad nauseam. I AGREE. However, my contention is the killer was trying to LOOK like a skater (failing). What would draw the killer to the Miyazawa home? I believe the killer had ties to Yokota, 18 miles away. My contention continues to be the skate park. Why else would the killer randomly choose this isolated home? My opinion, there has to be some kind of skater influence. And again, the Faceless podcast touches on the grip tape angle. Thanks sincerely Nic, for covering this. I think it means something.

Well, the killer was wearing tennis shoes and there is a tennis court there. A large one, bigger than what the skaters have for their hobby and it is right next to it. Instead of looking at what the killer wasn’t wearing, let’s look at what he was.
Mikio could well have had run-ins with the skaters in the past making the TMPD suspicious… but tennis shoes and a tennis court? Where’s the tennis player angle?

 

[KentuckyMama]

Mr Faceless, can you please tell me how I can listen to your podcast? I have tried to look on iheart radio but the app doesn't run well on my device lately for some reason. I can't get it to load. Can anyone point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

Mr Faceless, can you please tell me how I can listen to your podcast? I have tried to look on iheart radio but the app doesn't run well on my device lately for some reason. I can't get it to load. Can anyone point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance.

You can listen to it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, or directly on the USG website: FACELESS | USG Audio

 

[KentuckyMama]

You can listen to it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, or directly on the USG website: FACELESS | USG Audio

You are awesome! And fast! Thank you very much for responding.

 

[Cryptic]

USAF military travels frequently, and this is another base close by Yakota. Does anyone share this opinion?

Do you mean the possibility that a USAF serviceman was posted to Yakota, and then was posted to another nearby base? If so.....

Back to back postings in Japan specifically and Asia in general would be rare. Rather, the military likes to balance over seas posting with postings in the United States.

Though an USAF member could request an additional posting in Japan, granting such requests is frowned upon in the general sense. But, one additional posting in the area posting may not trigger the military's tendency to say "no homesteading" (anybody with actual service experience, please add your input).

Likewise, a small number of ubber specialized servicemen may have an easier time extending over seas tours as there are fewer places to rotate to and fewer people in the rotation.

Servicemen aside.....

Civilian contractors, ranging from teacher, to plumbers (some buildings must be serviced by background checked US citizens, even in friendly countries), to IT specialists, would not be subject to near mandatory duty rotations. Rather, they can likely get extensions and rotations to nearby bases in pretty easily.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I think the whole Y DNA being seen in 1/4 Koreans thing was only spread because there’s a common trend in Japan to blame any crime on foreigners, in particular the Koreans & the Chinese.

RSBM: Dr M. is head of Forensic Medicine at one of the most prestigious universities in Japan. While it’s true that racism exists in Japan, (as it does in the US, UK, and Spain etc), I wholly reject the idea that he expressed this view due to any kind of anti-Chinese or Korean sentiment. Having spoken to him personally, he told me he gave his report to the TMPD based on the best information available at the time. I believed him, as did the TMPD. Do you have any evidence or sources to back up your assertion? Moreover, he did not ‘spread’ that information, it was leaked by someone at his lab.

The data the lab in the university has given is wrong, if it’s what they gave, because the haplogroup is most commonly seen in SE Asians and Chinese first (nearly 1/2 of Chinese!), and then Japanese, and then Korean. In fact, it’s ultra rare in ethnicities outside of these.

I have no real knowledge on haplogroups but you say here that the data is wrong because it’s rare or uncommon. Those are two very different premises. And even then, with all respect to you, even if we might have questions about these findings, it’s unhelpful to label things as ‘wrong.’

 

[FacelessPodcast]

My opinions continue to evolve and formulate, so I decided to listen to "Faceless" today for the THIRD time, in entirety. It continues to be thoroughly engaging. Nic, I can't commend you enough. Thanks for the work you put into it. As I consider it THE reference source, it brought up more questions..

You’re too kind, Steve! If we had Faceless merch, I’d send you a mug or a sticker or something.

I believe Miura High School may be a potential short term stop for the POI. I haven't looked at their yearbooks yet, but wonder if this may hold clues. USAF military travels frequently, and this is another base close by Yakota. Does anyone share this opinion?

I know that USAF schools in Japan competed with each other in sports / games / debates and so on. There seems to be some evidence they also engaged in broader Japanese fields. I wouldn’t rule out such a young man through Miura at some point. The Miura Peninsula encompasses many places but there does seem to be the possibility some of the sand the killer had on him was from there after all.

I apologize, as I HATE when others bicker with Nic. However, I still think the skater angle is something to consider. In the podcast, Nic agrees with other skaters opinions the clothing didn't match what skaters wear, ad nauseam. I AGREE.

And to be clear, I warmly welcome all opinions, whether I agree or not. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have started this thread. What I won’t brook is disrespect or contravention of reality / fact. That’s something that aligns with TOC and just basic manners.

However, my contention is the killer was trying to LOOK like a skater (failing). What would draw the killer to the Miyazawa home? I believe the killer had ties to Yokota, 18 miles away. My contention continues to be the skate park. Why else would the killer randomly choose this isolated home? My opinion, there has to be some kind of skater influence.

I think the skater ‘look’ is clearly wide-spread. Very, very difficult to refute, particularly within USAF kids back then. Whether or not it was his link to Soshigaya Park, I don’t know. It might’ve been tennis, it might’ve been the nearby university, it might’ve been the local arcade, it might’ve been piano lessons at the Miyazawa home for all we know. But I don’t rule out much of anything on the skater angle as a general point.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Do you mean the possibility that a USAF serviceman was posted to Yakota, and then was posted to another nearby base? If so.....

Back to back postings in Japan specifically and Asia in general would be rare. Rather, the military likes to balance over seas posting with postings in the United States.

I don’t know about back-to-back postings, @Cryptic, and I defer to your experience.

However, I do know that there were or are frequent buses between Yokota and Yokosuka Naval Base, for starters. Also, I know that transfers between Misawa and Yokota occurred. In the cases I’ve seen it was for promotions.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There’s a difference between ‘not able to prove’ and ‘unwilling to provide proof’; in any case, this appears to be a moot point since Nic said the reason was that Wiki demanded a court order.

I have no idea why they demanded that and the TMPD did not elaborate. But it does seem strange, they could’ve just said it was case sensitive or something, hard to imagine Wikipedia telling them to get stuffed after that? And yet…

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Well, the killer was wearing tennis shoes and there is a tennis court there. A large one, bigger than what the skaters have for their hobby and it is right next to it. Instead of looking at what the killer wasn’t wearing, let’s look at what he was.
Mikio could well have had run-ins with the skaters in the past making the TMPD suspicious… but tennis shoes and a tennis court? Where’s the tennis player angle?

I’ve asked this many times. Tennis never gets mentioned—why?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Mr Faceless, can you please tell me how I can listen to your podcast? I have tried to look on iheart radio but the app doesn't run well on my device lately for some reason. I can't get it to load. Can anyone point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance.

I see you got a response already, @KentuckyMama. I hope you enjoy it! (And I kinda like ‘Mr Faceless’ as a name…)

 

[dotr]

FACELESS | USG Audio

THE TRUE STORY OF A KILLER THAT MURDERED A FAMILY OF FOUR AND STAYED THE NIGHT.

www.usgaudio.com

 

[Cryptic]

I don’t know about back-to-back postings, @Cryptic, and I defer to your experience.

I should add that my experience was with a US Army family. Most Army duty rotations were between 2-4 years with extensions being rare.

@cenazoic , however, mentions that USAF did not move around as much. Airforce duty rotations seem to be longer and/or extensions easier to get than in the Army.

However, I do know that there were or are frequent buses between Yokota and Yokosuka Naval Base, for starters. Also, I know that transfers between Misawa and Yokota occurred. In the cases I’ve seen it was for promotions.

That makes sense.

If there is a cluster of US bases, one base will serve as the "hub". For families, the hub could have better shopping, more US style restaurants, bowling alley etc. that smaller bases lacked. The hub base could also contain the area high school. Likewise, the hub may have military promotion possibilities that the non hub base lacks. Buses between bases were regular.

 

[SteveL]

Another question came up after my third listening of Faceless. I believe Nic mentioned that CCTV footage existed of the purchaser of the sashimi knife at the market. But when Nic pressed the chief, he quickly dismissed it. Why hasn't that footage been released to the public? While maybe it wasn't the killer who bought it, it damn well could be someone tied to the killer. Was it because the person didn't fit the killer's physical profile? Or, was it because the buyer (killer?) was American?

A broader issue is TMPD's blatant disregard for any angle involving Yokota AFB. I can't figure out if it's because they don't believe the possibility, or don't WANT to believe it. Faceless pretty much proves TMPD never investigated the Edwards AFB connection. The fact that they've boasted about "280,000 people on the case" blah, blah, blah is shameful if they truly haven't had one man investigate in California.

I did some research on diplomatic immunity. If the killer's father is high ranking enough, it can cover their spouse and children. However, that's not to stop TMPD from investigating. With enough evidence, I suspect the US government would cooperate and probably turn over the suspect. There's precedent for that.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Another question came up after my third listening of Faceless. I believe Nic mentioned that CCTV footage existed of the purchaser of the sashimi knife at the market. But when Nic pressed the chief, he quickly dismissed it. Why hasn't that footage been released to the public? While maybe it wasn't the killer who bought it, it damn well could be someone tied to the killer. Was it because the person didn't fit the killer's physical profile? Or, was it because the buyer (killer?) was American?

There was an update on this front which, I'm pretty sure, came in a subsequent discussion with the Chief. It's not been very clear but basically, I've spoken to him many times -- on several occasions officially which were recorded and on the record for the podcast. And then, after that, we became friends. That stuff is mostly off the record, of course. But it was on the latter side where I learned that the CCTV footage did exist and for many years thought to be a good lead on the killer. Then, around 2022 or so, the man in the video was finally identified, located, and eliminated from the investigation through fingerprinting. It was simply a guy who had the bad luck to have bought the same knife as the killer in the days leading up to the murders. The Chief wouldn't get into exactly *how* they found him or why it took 22 years for that CCTV to prove fruitful.

A broader issue is TMPD's blatant disregard for any angle involving Yokota AFB. I can't figure out if it's because they don't believe the possibility, or don't WANT to believe it. Faceless pretty much proves TMPD never investigated the Edwards AFB connection. The fact that they've boasted about "280,000 people on the case" blah, blah, blah is shameful if they truly haven't had one man investigate in California.

I've obviously spent many, many hours pondering this / discussing this. Ultimately, I think the thing that makes the most sense is politics. That's a rabbit hole where we could speculate on everything from North Korea to the US being its largest trading partner (by trade balance according to World Bank). But if we accept the premise the killer might've been a US citizen, living in Japan via a USAF family, then we'd ultimately be talking about Japan putting to death an American. I don't have the info to hand but we're talking about a very short list, let alone one stationed at a USAF base. Now, I don't say this is exactly what is happening, nor do I say I have any concrete reason to think it. I just don't have a better premise in its place. I'm welcome to ideas. As to why the TMPD wouldn't pursue an international angle--considering they went to China on the mere possibility the knife was wrapped in the vein of Chinese fish factory workers, considering they went to Korea on the possibility the shoes were sold in Korea... I just can't make much sense of that. Perhaps they have information I do not. But from the many, many hours of discussion I had, it would've been very easy to say 'there are no good reasons for looking into the US, I can't tell you why.' That never came up. Not a single solid point made against the theory, or the sand, or even Edwards AFB.

I did some research on diplomatic immunity. If the killer's father is high ranking enough, it can cover their spouse and children. However, that's not to stop TMPD from investigating. With enough evidence, I suspect the US government would cooperate and probably turn over the suspect. There's precedent for that.

There's also a lot of precedent of the US politely telling nations to get stuffed. The death of Harry Dunn recently showcased this and the UK is a friendly nation, too... If you throw into the mix a possible death sentence and Japan's arguably inhumane death row system, I'm sure there'd be ample cause for such a request to be turned down. And that's ignoring whether or not a military court would come into the mix. I'm not a JAG, I have no idea about the process but it would possibly fall down on one of two sides here for the TMPD:

1) It's an eternal mystery, we tried everything we could.

2) We know who he is and, for diplomatic reasons, we can't get him.

I can tell you the ensuing scandal would be massive. Again, I'm just riffing here. But assuming all these notes form a melody, that's lose-lose for a lot of people except Setsuko Miyazawa. And, frankly, she's pretty much the only person in this whole storm I care about.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

I’ve asked this many times. Tennis never gets mentioned—why?

It is interesting. Is the skater angle just because of the apparent run-ins he had with them? I remember from your podcast that they categorically denied the killer to be wearing or looking like any kind of skater… and yet the tennis shoes and court is right there…

Regarding the CCTV footage of the guy who bought the same knife close to the day of the murders, did the TMPD say where that footage was from? The store and the location? I would be interested to know… many thanks.

 

[cenazoic]

I’ve asked this many times. Tennis never gets mentioned—why?

My hunch is that the clothing the killer wore was easily stereotyped as ‘skater’ and tunnel vision occurred.

I can't figure out if it's because they don't believe the possibility, or don't WANT to believe it.

Ultimately, I think the thing that makes the most sense is politics. T

Agreed re: politics. Particularly in the 90s, tensions were high between Japanese citizens and military bases, primarily because of crimes committed by Americans (still true today).

I agree that the US would be unlikely to turn over a teenager/military dependent to a foreign government, especially with the death penalty on the table. But also, politics; admitting a dependent committed 4 brutal murders would be absolutely incendiary.

Legally, a US military base overseas is considered American soil. So if a kid shoplifts at the BX, the MPs have authority to arrest them or whatever.

If the kid shoplifts in Tokyo, and is caught, he can be arrested by the local police. However, if he runs back to base, the local police do not have authority/jurisdiction to come on base and arrest them. That’s where things get sticky.

As a possible point of interest, military members overseas are technically bound to 3 different legal systems:

- American laws based on the Constitution
- the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) - military rules and regulations members are bound by and
- the laws of the host country when off-base.

In general, if you, a US service member, commit a crime in a foreign country, any punishment is likely to be administered via court martial (UCMJ), rather than by the host nation’s judiciary.

All that said - I don’t know how that plays out for dependents.

 

[Hausos]

RSBM: Dr M. is head of Forensic Medicine at one of the most prestigious universities in Japan. While it’s true that racism exists in Japan, (as it does in the US, UK, and Spain etc), I wholly reject the idea that he expressed this view due to any kind of anti-Chinese or Korean sentiment. Having spoken to him personally, he told me he gave his report to the TMPD based on the best information available at the time. I believed him, as did the TMPD. Do you have any evidence or sources to back up your assertion? Moreover, he did not ‘spread’ that information, it was leaked by someone at his lab.

I have no real knowledge on haplogroups but you say here that the data is wrong because it’s rare or uncommon. Those are two very different premises. And even then, with all respect to you, even if we might have questions about these findings, it’s unhelpful to label things as ‘wrong.’

I don't understand why it's unhelpful to label something that's wrong, wrong? The haplogroup the killer has is more commonly found in Chinese and Japanese males, not more likely to be found in Korean males. I don't have a degree in genetics or anything but I've been interested in archaeogenetics for years. A lot of people have come to believe that the killer has strong ties to Korea for some reason, and I've seen this haplogroup data being spread around as a possible link. This data may have just been written and leaked by someone related to the university or something. I have no association to any individual that you mentioned and I obviously respect anyone's hard work.

But it's still wrong.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

Where is the haplogroup O-M122 information coming from? Is it the same leak that gave us “1 in 4 Koreans”? If so, is it possible that the leak left out important information (such as a subclade) or simply contained errors or falsehoods?