GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[concernedcitizen706]

Okay I guess nobody feels like making posts, but I am still pondering this case, so I will keep making posts.

The one thing I really want to know about is, if that security gate was manned, by a person, 24/7. I tried googling Reynolds plantation security, I didn't really see any specifics. But from a few things I saw online, they said like 24/7 security with patrol guards and cameras. That does NOT make it sound like they had 24/7 live security at the gate. Because I think if they had it, they would have specifically said it.

Plus the police never mentioned anything about interviewing the security guard that night, and asking what he saw. That also makes me think there was no guard at that gate that night.

So not having the manned gate 24/7 would make it way easier for him to get in. That might explain why the perp was still hanging around the next day. He wanted to wait until the security guy left at night.

But even with a manned gate, looking at Google maps, late night he can drive in on some other roads, around the community, park, and just walk in. Or even drive over the grass and get to one of the inside roads.

He really only has to do it one time. Because once he's in there, he can steal a key pass from a house or car. Then he deactivated the security cameras. So he's good to go. He can come and go late night as he pleases.

But knowing for sure about the manned gate would really change my opinions on this.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I think we're looking at a very organized killer for this. This is a guy who probably knew lockpicking. And or other good ways to surreptitiously get into a house. This is a guy who probably has been invading houses and cars in the area for years already. And police have overlooked him. Maybe because he is known to have worked for police in some way before.

It's kind of similar to the serial killer Dennis Rader situation, who also probably used lock picking to get into some houses. And who also used to work in some capacity linked to the police, as a code enforcer.

So all these ideas people have, that the killer must have known the people to get into the house etc., is probably wrong. He just let himself into the house on his own. Probably through lockpicking. In fact he probably went into several houses around there as well.

And also picked up a gate keycard too, once he got in there to some houses, to make it easier for himself. Once he had that, he could come and go as he pleases.

I'm kind of wondering if he brought his own canoe too. Or kayak. If he had a truck or van, he could fit it in there.

Police should ask info from anybody who's made complaints about a guy who knows lock picking in the area. And see if those complaints were foolishly dismissed by police.

But yeah, unfortunately people were looking at this through a much too normal prism, when it comes to crime. When they should have been looking at it from a much more specialized viewpoint. Because they were picturing the wrong type situation. I think the clues were already there, the unforced entry, the lack of forensics, no evidence at the gate, the cameras being out at the gate, etc. The clues were already there from day one, about the type of killer we were dealing with. But nobody wanted to recognize it.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I was just looking up some stuff, he could have had an inflatable rowboat. They cost like a hundred bucks. And they're good up to 350 lbs load. And they say they're just as good as a hard hull boat. So he definitely could have brought that, uninflated, in any car. Edit- yes I just saw a video, they do indeed deflate down to a very small size. Like a 1x2 foot box. And I'm sure they have slightly bigger ones too, for more weight

 

[Valiant]

This is a gated community, so it looks like access is controlled 24 hours a day. Residents and visitors likely travel through the exact same gates. When I lived in a similar community, my guests could not come into the community without my permission on file at the gate.
"There is a two car max and all cars must be registered through guest services during check in or gate house for afterhours arrivals."
From:

Policies | Reynolds Lake Oconee

www.reynoldslakeoconee.com

 

[dotr]

.

 

[Danaya]

What's missing from this case is motive. Who had motive to kill the couple? I think it's fairly obvious that this was an organized killing. Serial killers, as well as contract killers, and even inexperienced killers can all be organized; all are motivated by different things.

What was the killers motivation to kill the Dremonds? The crime scene is strange; was it staged? Did they decapitate Mr. Dremond in order to throw off investigators? Had the killer(s) done something similar before, or was this their first time?

I would think that all family and friends were thoroughly investigated. I hope that all their communications were looked into.

The fact that this case is still cold has led me to believe it may be a serial killing. Serial killers are typically motivated by their own anger, sexual desire, or the intense excitement that killing brings them.

There was no evidence of a sexual assault, but were police really able to determine that conclusively despite Shirley being in the water? Was she put in the water in an attempt to wash off DNA? Did the killer sexually assault Mr. Dremond as well? Was he unable to carry both bodies onto the boat, choosing only to bring Mr. Dremonds head because that's where the killer had left his DNA?

The may have a fairly scattered modus operandi and a broad victimology, which is why no similar crimes have been noted nearby. I still don't believe we know all the details of this crime. Police have likely held some things back from the public. They might already have a strong person of interest and lack the evidence they need to make them a suspect.

 

[Cedars]

This is a gated community, so it looks like access is controlled 24 hours a day. Residents and visitors likely travel through the exact same gates. When I lived in a similar community, my guests could not come into the community without my permission on file at the gate.
"There is a two car max and all cars must be registered through guest services during check in or gate house for afterhours arrivals."
From:

Policies | Reynolds Lake Oconee

www.reynoldslakeoconee.com

Yes, I recall from my recent watchings of interviews with the Sheriff, back then visitor licence plates were recorded, however service vehicles would have a pass just like residents, so they weren't tracked. And the cameras weren't actually functioning.

JMO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

What's missing from this case is motive. Who had motive to kill the couple? I think it's fairly obvious that this was an organized killing. Serial killers, as well as contract killers, and even inexperienced killers can all be organized; all are motivated by different things.

What was the killers motivation to kill the Dremonds? The crime scene is strange; was it staged? Did they decapitate Mr. Dremond in order to throw off investigators? Had the killer(s) done something similar before, or was this their first time?

I would think that all family and friends were thoroughly investigated. I hope that all their communications were looked into.

The fact that this case is still cold has led me to believe it may be a serial killing. Serial killers are typically motivated by their own anger, sexual desire, or the intense excitement that killing brings them.

There was no evidence of a sexual assault, but were police really able to determine that conclusively despite Shirley being in the water? Was she put in the water in an attempt to wash off DNA? Did the killer sexually assault Mr. Dremond as well? Was he unable to carry both bodies onto the boat, choosing only to bring Mr. Dremonds head because that's where the killer had left his DNA?

The may have a fairly scattered modus operandi and a broad victimology, which is why no similar crimes have been noted nearby. I still don't believe we know all the details of this crime. Police have likely held some things back from the public. They might already have a strong person of interest and lack the evidence they need to make them a suspect.

Serial killers kill for the thrill of killing. Look at serial killer Dennis Rader, BTK. He killed old people, young people, kids, women, families, guys. Whoever he came across. I think the motivation was, that the Dermonds had a very isolated house. So he knew he would be more likely to get away with it and take his time

 

[concernedcitizen706]

This is a gated community, so it looks like access is controlled 24 hours a day. Residents and visitors likely travel through the exact same gates. When I lived in a similar community, my guests could not come into the community without my permission on file at the gate.
"There is a two car max and all cars must be registered through guest services during check in or gate house for afterhours arrivals."
From:

Policies | Reynolds Lake Oconee

www.reynoldslakeoconee.com

Well I have done a little more googling and reading yesterday. I saw right here on Websleuth, that Sheriff Sills said that, there is NO bar at the entrance gate there. And another person there wrote that, the gate IS manned 24/7. I also saw something else on TripAdvisor, where a guest was complaining about how they were let into the place. So apparently to get in, there are two lanes, one on the right is for the regular residents, and they go quickly in. And the lane on the left is for visitors and guests, to see guard, and apparently it's a real traffic mess getting in. Since we know there are no bars there, then we can assume, that exiting, they just drive out.

So the sheriff said something about the security cameras not working. But what about the guard that's supposed to be there 24/7? Did they notice any cars coming and going late night at any point, shortly before or during the crime? He never made a comment on it.

So this is what I'm wondering. I've known some people in security, and they are not always at their posts. I used to know one guy who used to leave latenight for hours and he never got caught lol. Was the security guard there all night or did he often take a few long breaks latenight in between shift changes etc. You know that time of year it was not busy yet, so I'm sure late night almost nobody went through. So they might have been tempted to take off for their dinner break or something.

Because I'm just trying to figure out still, how easy it would have been for him to get a key card and drive in. You know looking at Google maps again, there are a couple places that the outside roads are very close by to the inside roads, and he could just drive a tiny bit through the grass and trees to get in. I would actually have to go to that spot though, to see if that's possible.

Or if he got a key card, and or a sticker, I'm wondering how easy it would be for him to drive in on that right lane at the entrance, and not be noticed. I mean if he had a sticker on his car, and tinted windows, and didn't have to open them, I don't know if the guard would be able to see his face. Also the fact that they have no entrance bar there, suggests to me that he did not have to open his window to put the key card in the machine, to open the bar. So that's even more likely to me, that he just kept the window closed to drive in. So that could be a possibility. He just had to get in the first time somehow, to be able to steal a key card or a sticker.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Yes, I recall from my recent watchings of interviews with the Sheriff, back then visitor licence plates were recorded, however service vehicles would have a pass just like residents, so they weren't tracked. And the cameras weren't actually functioning.

JMO

Do you know if they have to show the pass to the guard, or do they just have a sticker on the car that they can just drive through?

 

[Valiant]

Do you know if they have to show the pass to the guard, or do they just have a sticker on the car that they can just drive through?

In the community I lived in, you had three ways in. You had a transponder decal on your car, you had a temporary pass you could hold under a bar code scanner, or a guard let you in. If this community was similar they would know what cars were in or out that weekend.

 

[Cedars]

[

Do you know if they have to show the pass to the guard, or do they just have a sticker on the car that they can just drive through?

I recall it was a sticker, so they'd be just waved through without having to stop.

I listened to whatever interviews I could find with Sheriff Sills on youtube or whatever, since I can listen while doing other things. However, not every detail sticks in my memory.

This man knows every detail having personally worked it all rather than hand over to his team, but the case eludes him and it drives him crazy. I hope he gets a break and solves it. IMO it's not solveable at this point, the killer(s) were very careful.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

In the community I lived in, you had three ways in. You had a transponder decal on your car, you had a temporary pass you could hold under a bar code scanner, or a guard let you in. If this community was similar they would know what cars were in or out that weekend.

Interesting, was that back in 2014? It seems this community hadn't upgraded to a fully electronic system, as I recall the Sheriff said there wasn't info about which trades people came in and out on those days.

However, anyone who might have ever worked around the home was interviewed. Lots of polygraphs used.

But to be honest, if you can slice off your victim's head in his garage, and surround it with towels to keep his blood from leaking under the garage doors, I think you could probably pass a polygraph.

JMO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Yeah I was just thinking about the entrance system there. I don't know how safe it was over there. Because they have like some guest cottages and a golf course and some other stuff going on there. So they got a lot of new people going into that place all the time. In my opinion, to make it safer, they should have the residential portion, totally blocked off from the guest's portion. Maybe have two guard shacks. Add an internal one for the residents portion. Because once a guest gets in there, they have access to the whole place.

Because I was thinking, the perp could have gone into that place before, to a guest cottage or to go golfing or use the marina or whatever. And, being ever observant, he looked around and he figured out the entrance system with the stickers whatever. And maybe he stole a sticker at that point. Or came back and stole one later.

So he slaps a sticker on his car and with some tinted windows, goes in after dark, is the guard going to see his face? Probably not too well. Especially because he's like a lane over. And he could have used a gradual technique. You know where he goes maybe a month before the crime. See if he gets stopped. If he doesn't, then maybe go the next week, and then a few days later, etc until he looks like a normal visitor. By the time the murder rolls around, the guard just waves him in.

So that could be one possibility. And I kind of think it's a decent possibility, because the murderer had to know the layout of the house and the schedule of the Dermonds, etc., and so he had to have made several trips there before. So he got it to the point where he could just drive in with his sticker.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Yes

Interesting, was that back in 2014? It seems this community hadn't upgraded to a fully electronic system, as I recall the Sheriff said there wasn't info about which trades people came in and out on those days.

However, anyone who might have ever worked around the home was interviewed. Lots of polygraphs used.

But to be honest, if you can slice off your victim's head in his garage, and surround it with towels to keep his blood from leaking under the garage doors, I think you could probably pass a polygraph.

JMO

Yes I agree with you on the polygraphs.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

In the community I lived in, you had three ways in. You had a transponder decal on your car, you had a temporary pass you could hold under a bar code scanner, or a guard let you in. If this community was similar they would know what cars were in or out that weekend.

Okay thanks for the info.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Here's what I read in TripAdvisor. June 2015.

Non-Golfer Vacationers Beware!!! - Review of Reynolds Lake Oconee, Greensboro, GA - Tripadvisor

Reynolds Lake Oconee: Non-Golfer Vacationers Beware!!! - See 103 traveler reviews, 47 candid photos, and great deals for Greensboro, GA, at Tripadvisor.

www.tripadvisor.com

Another warning... since you are not a member, when you leave the resort to go to a decent restaurant you must re-enter the gates via the left-hand lane. That is another flawed resort procedure that works against non-members. As the members rapidly enter the right-hand lane via their electronic gate openers, we were forced to wait in line behind all of those who were checking into the resort for the first time, it took us over 30 minutes to gain entry through the gate. During one of our returns I was so exasperated with the wait that I turned and went to the right gate knowing that the lady could easily hit a button and let us enter since we had a reservation card for our car. This made her furious and she began to yell at us for not staying he in the check-in lane. I have a feeling that she was primarily upset about us blocking her precious members from being able to enter the resort.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Yeah, I'm not sure if what I posted above is the same gate. Because looking on google maps, Reynolds Plantation does not appear to have a gate. Like Sheriff Sills said in quote. Although a little hard to see there. Here's some screenshots from Google Maps streetview.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So anyway, you look at the set up in the pics I posted above, I could see how some bad guy could get in. There does not appear to be a security bar. So that means the driver not have to open his window to scan it. So If you go thru the lane on the right, with tinted windows, at night, I'm not sure how great of a look the guard will get at the driver.

I don't know if they also have some cameras looking into the car too, for the guard to look at. But we heard the cameras were not working.

Because if my theory works, the perp had to drive in there several times before. So he had to get himself a car permit sticker for that. Which he could steal.

The trick is, once he got the sticker, the perp had to probably go before the first time, a while before. Maybe like March. And go thru during like dinner hours. So it doesn't look too suspicious. But still dark. And see if he gets thru. Then he has to repeat it a few times, until the guard thinks his car is no big deal. The perp having a nice, ordinary looking car, with tinted windows, would help too.

So the night of the crime, he goes in a little earlier, like 9 pm, the guard does not even notice him.

- You know what else is odd, we never heard one single thing about what the guard saw that night.

 

[Valiant]

These type of places sell buyers on the concept of security but as many posts above point out they aren’t really as secure as many residents think.
In the community I lived in, some people acted like we were 100% secured away from the “locals” outside the gates.