Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[MiniMoo]

If I were 100% innocent of this crime for which the D were accusing me? I’d be all over this - all the way up to the highest court! Maybe it’s time for the laws to be changed so that this cannot happen. I don’t have a problem with SODDI in legal filings at all - but with people being named and called out? That is not ok imo. That should / could go privately to the judge imo and then it wouldn’t risk ruining someone’s life who was innocent the accusation.

I think everyone also needs to be educated about what a Pre-trial Detainee is versus a Convicted Criminal/Felon and what a Pre-trial Detainees entitlements and allowances are as a Pre-Trial Detainee.

 

[photographer4]

It doesn't body if a FB Group claims there was an F on LG's body, and they 'name' BH as the killer IMO...That is not important unless it is formally and legally corroborated and acted upon by the court. Social Media warriors have no say in who is charged and arrested, thank goodness.

Do you have any idea how many people have been declared 'guilty' by various Facebook Groups and TikTok accounts, before the real perpetrators have ben arrested and convicted. I can think of many, like Sergio, the father of a 5 yr old girl kidnapped from her bedroom. He was castigated by social media sleuths and they ate crow when the true killer was convicted years later.

I think it’s interesting that others have had concerns about at least one person named by the D regarding this case. I think there is probably a lot more to the story than what police have told us so far and I doubt very much we will ever hear the entire story.

 

[Megnut]

That winter gray hat with fur like fibers is interesting.

I wonder, if that was worn with the brown hoodie, could that give the illusion of poofy hair?

The sketch is just a drawing from someone's memory...And I have not personally seen the hat.

All I can do is reflect on the video itself and wonder if that hat could have been perceived as hair. Especially from a bit of a distance.
I would link a photo of a couple, but I don't think it's allowed because it's not MSM.

Maybe a Google search would suffice,,?

JMO

JH on the stand when he was questioned about those two sketches more or less said that both sketches were of the same man because they (sketches) looked alike.

Strike me down with lightening if I got that wrong!

The sketches don't look alike nor does RA look like either of them and as for RA looking like BG that is really hard to say because part of that man's face could be covered in the video.

As for BH looking like BG I have no idea because I don't know what BH looks like.

Tough hill to climb could be right!

The sketches were a tool to help the public bring in tips to locate the suspect. They won’t be used as evidence. if RA were non-white, the sketch might rule him out. That’s about it. He can’t be ruled out by the sketches.

I'm pages behind again but about this sketch issue, just occurred to me that

1. At the time of the newborn investigation, they were trying to identify EVERYONE in the area, it was only after a great deal of investigating that they could begin to pair people and telephones and who was where seeing whom.

Let's say 10 iindividuals reported seeing 3 girls, is that 30 girls or just the same 3? Along those lines, LE had the descriptions from the juveniles -- either they saw 1 man, perceived slightly differently -- or it was 2 men. But if they were all together at the time, it's notable than none saw two men so LE likely reached the obvious conclusion -- they all saw the same one man, wearing dark clothing, seemingly not too friendly. In time, RA would not be ELIMINATED from that description. At the time, that man would be a fair match to one Libby videoed whose trajectory was in step.

Meanwhile BB reported seeing a man. And apparently she couldn't really give an age. Settled on a wide range. We won't know unless she clarifies under oath. Poofy hair might have led her to think not 50, 60, older. Just being on the platform may have entered her calculus. Young enough to dare to cross, maybe not something an older person, in her mind, would do.

Amd when LE first encountered the two descriptions, the three way, in general accord one and the one BB gave, they might have expected that two be two differenr men until realizing that the OBG seen by the juveniles would have been progressing forward right in line with the OBG in Libby's video.

And that makes BB's YBG sighting a variation in description but the same man. YBG had to be OBG because of timing. No one saw a second man.

RA himself was consistent with that. He didn't see another man there.

So why the discrepancy? Between OBG and YBG?

Maybe RA is responsible for that.

Perhaps HE altered his appearance. Pulled his hood up tight. If it was fur rimmed, from her vantage, BB might not gave been able to see definition. Just shape, shade, impression. Perhaps a fur hood gave the figure a very poofy head.

If Abby and Libby first encountered RA not too far from the first platform, it seems he did or said something that was creepy to them. If Abby said, is he behind me?, it suggests she had seen him prior. It was a remarkably nice day. Would it have been WEIRD to see a grown man, on the bridge, with maybe a fur hood pulled over his head and a face cover? Half bank robber.

IMO then there was a time LE thought the juveniles saw one man and BB saw different one, and a time when data synthesized, they realized it HAD TO BE one and the same. If it were two, they'd have encountered each other, AND all of those witnesses would have seen BOTH.

There was always just one.

And RA by his own admission put himself on the bridge, after parking not-in-the-Mears-lot, after passing the juveniles, before BB, on the first platform where BB saw him once she caught up, and as Abby and Libby were coming close to the 1st-platform side of the bridge.

That's why he can't get off the bridge. He got boxed in.

By people who had no reason to lie.

The only one who gave LE false information was the one man who CAN'T BE EXCLUDED from their descriptions. The one who would have had to encounter Abby and Libby --

But said he didn't.

He's the guy.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Supposedly one of the confessions was made in a letter he wrote to the warden, and the other was made to his prison psychiatrist. The one to the warden, if found to be true, makes me believe he wanted to confess and plead Guilty. JMO

And yet, no remarks in pretrial to the judge or the courtroom as a whole. In any of these “confessions” has he stated that his lawyers aren’t hearing him or respecting his wish to change his plea? Has he accused them of trampling his rights as their client?

 

[photographer4]

IMO, they were wrong, so my opinion stands even though I respect yours.

Going back to the Christine Jessop / guy Paul Morin case - the Le met the threshold to charge him too. How did that work out for all concerned? Not brilliantly imo since dna exhilarated him several years post conviction and hard time in prison. Just because the police or the state say X person did X crime doesn’t always make them correct.

Moo so no link but I did post them in the last thread anyhow.

 

[MiniMoo]

The cell phone stopped moving, why though? Was it off? Or just not moving? I didn’t follow the hearings, so if this was covered, pls lemme know and pls forgive me.

I think at the Hearing there was one police officer (Cecil I think) that was on the stand about Libby's cell phone.

He answered questions according to his records/notes, but apparently mucked up with something.

(Will post what it is if I find it).

Not sure if all the details were covered about what he was questioned about, but it was made clear that he only answered questions using what he had in note form so as to make sure what he was answering was accurate.

I'm sure he was the one that took 10 minutes to answer one question because he was looking through his notes or device with notes for whatever he had there that would answer that particular question.

One part there he retracted what he said about Libby's cell phone running out of juice.

If anyone else knows anything or has a different name or understanding...

 

[katydid23]

And yet, no remarks in pretrial to the judge or the courtroom as a whole. In any of these “confessions” has he stated that his lawyers aren’t hearing him or respecting his wish to change his plea? Has he accused them of trampling his rights as their client?

We have not heard if he has ever said anything like that or not. The State is keeping those kinds of details close to the vest until the trial.

But I do know that I was surprised about how little time his attorneys had spent with him. They very rarely visited him, IIRC.

 

[photographer4]

I am not sure that timeline above is correct.


(The detective did not elaborate with additional details.) Harshman also testified that the confessions started in March 2023 after Allen started reading a bible in his prison cell and began proclaiming that he had “found God.”Aug 1, 2024

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen ... - 21Alive​

I wonder if he ever “found god” when he was living free and if so, what that may have looked like for him and his loved ones? i wonder what books, movies, articles, podcasts, websites etc he may have been visiting while in prison? What about websites, books, podcasts, films etc? Wondering what the influences in his life have been since his arrival to corrections. More out of curiosity than anything really.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, but a lot has changed since his many confessions fell on deaf ears. When he began confessing he was begging his wife and mother for forgiveness and asking them if they still love him. Apparently the answer was NO, shut up, we don't accept that....

So of course he is no longer confessing his sins. He got the answer he didn't want to hear. They will shut him out if he tells the truth. They want him to go to trial and be found not guilty. So he is going along with that, imo.

I wonder what sort of breakdown a guilty verdict may have on him if it comes to this? Going to be a very interesting trial and conclusion imo.

 

[katydid23]

Going back to the Christine Jessop / guy Paul Morin case - the Le met the threshold to charge him too. How did that work out for all concerned? Not brilliantly imo since dna exhilarated him several years post conviction and hard time in prison. Just because the police or the state say X person did X crime doesn’t always make them correct.

Moo so no link but I did post them in the last thread anyhow.

Of course it doesn't always make them correct. That case was from 1992 though. I think things have been tightened up a bit since then. IMO

 

[photographer4]

Yes, but a lot has changed since his many confessions fell on deaf ears. When he began confessing he was begging his wife and mother for forgiveness and asking them if they still love him. Apparently the answer was NO, shut up, we don't accept that....

So of course he is no longer confessing his sins. He got the answer he didn't want to hear. They will shut him out if he tells the truth. They want him to go to trial and be found not guilty. So he is going along with that, imo.

I wonder what sort of breakdown a guilty verdict may have on him if it comes to this? Going to be a very interesting trial and conclusion imo.

 

[photographer4]

Who says it was 'powered off' at 18 minutes?

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193'
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

My post was a reply to this post. We both used the word “if” which is not a statement of fact.

 

[photographer4]

Right, and RA had mental health issues before he was ever incarcerated. He was hospitalised in 2019 for mental help.

So maybe he had mental health issues on the eve of Valentine's Day of 2017 too? His daughter had moved out, his wife was out of town for family emergency. Maybe he had a breakdown?

Or maybe he was stable and then his world fell apart when he was under the stress of having been arrested and thrown into prison. Who knows what they did with his medications or how they may have been changed etc…. IMO anything is certainly possible but I’d like so much more than what we have available before I throw away the key to his cell.

 

[Megnut]

I think Libby had her phone out to take pictures, as she did of Abby. When BG started walking toward them, she started to record. IMO she didn't probably know they were in danger. Yet.

Then she knew they were in grave danger.

And somehow, while facing what had to be unadulterated terror, knew her phone had evidence and knew it was their only lifeline. On THEIR walk, they'd only encountered BB that I know of. And BG.

When forced to undress, under unimaginable threat, she had the wherewithall to continue to conceal her phone. Folded in with her clothes, in a hoodie pocket, in a pants pocket, IN A SHOE.

I am curious to know whether there was evidence that BG had the girls in the precise location where they wete found BEFORE he carried/dragged them there.

So the shoe with a phone could have been at the final site, if Abby did in fact redress, maybe at that location, was injured very near to that spot and was carried back to it, her body laid atop the shoe.

I theorize he intended to shoot them. Exactly where they were found. Racked the slide, second chambered bullet fell to the ground, gun jammed. And the girls tried to run. He got to Abby first, and after killing Libby, brought them both back to where the bullet fell (maybe he forgot about it, maybe he couldn't find it) and Libby's phone wound up under Abby from where it never moved.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

OK, so Libby died horrifically as she bled out with that gaping wound. Doesn't that prove she was killed where she was found? That's where all her blood was found.

So when did that murder happen? Right after BG took them down the hill, or sometime later?

It shows she bled there and possibly died there. Doesn’t show what time this happened at. I wonder if we will get more accurate info on all the issues about the time of death, the cell phone issues like pings or geofencing etc. mooo

 

[photographer4]

Of course it doesn't always make them correct. That case was from 1992 though. I think things have been tightened up a bit since then. IMO

I would hope so but…. I have little faith given that: National Registry of Exonerations’ Annual Report Finds Majority of Exonerees are People of Color and Official Misconduct is the Main Cause of Wrongful Convictions

And

Wrongful Convictions and the Culture of Denial

On the surface, it appears the United States has a more serious problem with wrongful convictions than Japan, for it has uncovered many more cases of this kind. Yet this gap is probably more apparent than real, for Japan does a poor job of discovering wrongful...

link.springer.com

 

[MiniMoo]

Could have been part of staging the scene/murder. The killer(s) wanted evidence on there to be found?

IMO MOO theory

Maybe the cell phone was turned on so that the girls would be found sooner rather than later.

Am sure Libby's phone had a pin or lock of some kind so it wouldn't have been like the...

You know what?!

Libby's cell phone would have had to have been dusted or tested for latent fingerprints or something.

I would like to know what the findings were of her cell phone being dusted and if anything was picked up at all or not.

 

[photographer4]

We have not heard if he has ever said anything like that or not. The State is keeping those kinds of details close to the vest until the trial.

But I do know that I was surprised about how little time his attorneys had spent with him. They very rarely visited him, IIRC.

I’m not so confident we wouldn’t have heard it if RA had claimed his lawyers were not respecting his rights as their client given how sensational a story that would be. I think we would have heard as well if he had any comments to the courtroom or the judge or the media. I didn’t hear of any publication bans being created regarding his most recent three day pre trial hearings - unless I missed something?? Moo.

 

[Megnut]

The Video is bad quality but it certainly doesn’t rule out RA as same height and fatness. He also has the short legs with the hanging bottoms and not forgetting he admits what he wore that day which was similar to BG.

I think what's key with the video is that it doesn't rule RA out.

Which is another way of saying, since he can't be excluded, he is included.

And while many men might dress similarly, there weren't a lot of them on the trail that day.

Just the one.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Maybe the cell phone was turned on so that the girls would be found sooner rather than later.

Am sure Libby's phone had a pin or lock of some kind so it wouldn't have been like the...

You know what?!

Libby's cell phone would have had to have been dusted or tested for latent fingerprints or something.

I would like to know what the findings were of her cell phone being dusted and if anything was picked up at all or not.

I thought of this too but if he wore gloves then we may not have prints from him. He could also have used one of the hands of one of the kids to manipulate the phone (this is me theorizing, not based on fact). Hand over hand would have been tricky for sure but possible. As such, I wonder, did the phone have blood on or on it??