Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

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By now , a normal websleuther would be thinking of who will be making an appearance at the trial, as witnesses , this is assuming he either makes no plea ( in that case, the judge makes it for him and it's always a 'not guilty' plea ) , or pleads not guilty himself. A guilty plea means the entire shindig shifts to sentencing. The judge will outline the whole case, from the prosecution perspective, the indicators that point to the guilt, and the collateral damage, and impact on the community and the family, etc...

Then, the judge will , usually in exquisite detail, go into the actions of the accused, that caused the death, what alternatives could have been expected to be in play, why they were not, exactly who did what, and when, but usually, unless the defendant himself makes a performance of it, the judge will not go into motive,

Motive is superfluous in the overall context, as far as the sentencing criteria is involved,. the judge , and the law is not interested in motive.

Then, the judge will assign weight to each component of the crime, the planning if any, the opportunities to not murder, if any, the discarding of human compassion, and dignity to the deceased, the theft of a life, and so on, the convoluted elements that meet the requirements of murder in Victorian Law,.

Each component 's weighting will be calculated into the final sentence. ( in Victoria, the minimum for murder is 30years, then the long process of applying for parole, which can take another 5 years ) The minimum non-parole term for a life sentence in Victoria is 30 years, unless a court considers it not in the interest of justice to set such a term.

We can assume who the witnesses will be from the absolute press silence, most likely the Editors of various tabloids and dailies have been served with D notices, to not pursue certain people, under pain of prosecution, because they are either witnesses for the prosecution, or for the defence. Some may be hostile witnesses for the prosecution, this is not an unusual circumstance, it means the person is not a willing testifier, but will testify under duress...
 
If this comes down to sentencing, and he still hasn't said where Samantha is, is it likely that the Judge will make his sentence longer or the maximum. Or will the 'no body, no parole' come into play? Seems so unfair to the family if they have to wait any further! Or is this leverage for a plea deal. I tell you where her body is, if you give me manslaughter? Just me wondering.
 
If this comes down to sentencing, and he still hasn't said where Samantha is, is it likely that the Judge will make his sentence longer or the maximum. Or will the 'no body, no parole' come into play? Seems so unfair to the family if they have to wait any further! Or is this leverage for a plea deal. I tell you where her body is, if you give me manslaughter? Just me wondering.
He has very nearly exhausted any possibility of a discount on his parole date, which comes into play should he plead guilty AND reveal where the body is. Even now, there is that tiny window, much less leeway than if he had come clean in the beginning, but every day counts... Otherwise, it's a straight sentence, for maximum murder.

Can't see VICPOL or the DPP negotiating this down to anything less than that, considering they appear to have the entire event on camera. ! And it does not auger well for justice, if that path is followed.

I can't see the defence having anything to bargain with the DPP about, really., VICPOL seems mighty confident of making all the charges stick, even without a body, and this is not VICPOL's first go round without a body. Convictions have been achieved , and , it's not hard to see, one will be achieved on this matter, also.
 
Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm…
 

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So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

It would mean allegedly nearly 9 hours in the car.

Would cadaver dogs still catch the trace of the victim in it after some time?

It might also mean lots of DNA/touch DNA as evidence in the car.
Allegedly.

JMO
 
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Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm

Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm…
Wow, good job AussieS. I remember that he went to an 80th birthday before going out. I was under the impression he left his car there. Keeping her body in the car all day in that heat would surely draw attention. MOO
 
Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm…

I don't think the police ever confirmed about the ping. But their initial search was in an area behind the Bunninyong Golf Club, and this was said to be due to the ping. IIRC

Just for fullness of information .... OzTowers says that the "Bunninyong Golf Club" tower is at the top red marker on this map (it is actually in Mt Helen), with the Bunninyong Golf Club being at the lower red marker.

a.jpg
Google maps

One of Sam's relatives said there was only one tower working that day (probably due to maintenance imo).

The towers are divided into sectors, so the provider can tell which sector a ping is from. From the strength of the ping they can guesstimate how far from the tower the phone was. But it still leaves a wide distance to cover. I am guessing that where they later found the phone is within that same range (haven't looked yet).

b.jpg
Link

A phone doesn't have to be close to a tower to ping the tower. It just pings the closest (working) tower. The max usable range is about 40km. Link
 
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Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm…
I forget why, but I thought the ping tower was near Ballarat Bird World, about 4.6km north-west of where you mark.
 
I forget why, but I thought the ping tower was near Ballarat Bird World, about 4.6km north-west of where you mark.

That is where the Mount Helen tower is ... the one OzTowers calls the Bunningyong Golf Course tower.
I wonder if Buninyong Golf club owns that land - it seems to be wooded land.

a.jpg

(Reference for tower 3350029)

If you zoom in on the map I linked above, you can see Ballarat Bird World right near it.
 
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If the tower is the Mount Helen one, then the police were searching in the right direction for the phone - when they did that initial search in a 'forest area behind the Buninyong Golf Club'.
The dam off Slaughterhouse Road (where the phone was found) is a little further away in that direction.

a.jpg

Google Maps

5th Feb: "A search is underway in the forest area behind the Buninyong Golf Club." Link
 
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I'm thinking that after PS (allegedly) murdered Samantha he did indeed get a pal to help. But he would have painted it as an accident - "she just ran right out in front of me!" or similar. "But they'll pin it on me!" etc. I find it difficult to believe that 2 murderers existed in his circle of friends. What I can believe is that the friend who probably helped him believed that it wasn't actually murder. When we finally come to trial and learn a lot more of the details, it wouldn't surprise me at all if said friend (assuming he exists) realises that he helped a murderer, and tells all that he knows.
 
I don't think the police ever confirmed about the ping. But their initial search was in an area behind the Bunninyong Golf Club, and this was said to be due to the ping. IIRC

Just for fullness of information .... OzTowers says that the "Bunninyong Golf Club" tower is at the top red marker on this map (it is actually in Mt Helen), with the Bunninyong Golf Club being at the lower red marker.

View attachment 525888
Google maps

One of Sam's relatives said there was only one tower working that day (probably due to maintenance imo).

The towers are divided into sectors, so the provider can tell which sector a ping is from. From the strength of the ping they can guesstimate how far from the tower the phone was. But it still leaves a wide distance to cover. I am guessing that where they later found the phone is within that same range (haven't looked yet).

View attachment 525889
Link

A phone doesn't have to be close to a tower to ping the tower. It just pings the closest (working) tower. The max usable range is about 40km. Link
Ah ok I found the tower coordinates on the OzTowers website too but for the location I starred. But perhaps my tower I found was down and it was the golf course one. I was under the impression there was just one tower as I read on another site just 1 Buninyong tower and those were my coordinates according to OzTowers hmmm
 
I'm thinking that after PS (allegedly) murdered Samantha he did indeed get a pal to help. But he would have painted it as an accident - "she just ran right out in front of me!" or similar. "But they'll pin it on me!" etc. I find it difficult to believe that 2 murderers existed in his circle of friends. What I can believe is that the friend who probably helped him believed that it wasn't actually murder. When we finally come to trial and learn a lot more of the details, it wouldn't surprise me at all if said friend (assuming he exists) realises that he helped a murderer, and tells all that he knows.
Maybe right. And didn’t tell the girlfriend. Perhaps he came home then went back out that evening to dispose.

I feel he would have gotten home , car in garage , then later gone back out (maybe gf blissfully unaware and he said he was going to a mates house or to sports /gym training or similar ) And then went off to dispose . Maybe he picked up ice bags and paid cash en route after the incident . Maybe he didn’t have a shovel and they have cctv of him at a hardware store eg bunnings to help with the investigation. Or maybe he swung by his parents place and borrowed the shovel. Maybe the parents noticed this and later dobbed him in. jMOO

I still feel though he has help from a NN gang member that I predict he is part of (again the hand signal in the high school photo. And reason for keeping a secret aka protecting someone ) or perhaps just a good mate. The NN groups all communicate on encrypted messaging systems it’s been well documented in the media articles I’ve read - so IF part of one of those terrible groups then maybe this could explain why no other person hauled in who helped him. Doubt it was the girlfriend as otherwise she would have been brought in by now. Or very easily it could be he did this completely alone , secretly , nobody else involved and he is just staying silent as he is ashamed as I’ve said before too. The dna in the car coupled with some cctv is maybe the definitive proof the have. Many possibilities .

I also still find it odd he threw the phone etc into the dam near Slaughterhouse rd . Unless it was near where he disposed of her body. Because you’d think you would take it either further or hide it not in someone’s private property where it could indeed resurface. Wouldn’t you destroy it or throw it down a mineshaft or even crush it and in a few local city bins where there’s a very very slim chance ever found? This seems super odd to me unless it was night time , he was stressed, he drove a bit further to some bushland (there are many options in the area…) and buried her body - then realised her phone was on her still or he thought best dispose of it away from the body in case it had pinged and then its next to the body so too close by, so hence drive a little away but en route back to his place , in the dam. Which at night time maybe he didn’t think about the risk of the water drying up and it being found by the owner or whatever maybe happened . Clumsiness if so.

Anyway we shall see when it unfolds in court I guess!

Side note - Can I ask why is there zero updates on the family ? Surely they’ve been spotted somewhere within Australia by someone . Wouldn’t media have been wanting a scoop? Or gag order ?
 
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If the tower is the Mount Helen one, then the police were searching in the right direction for the phone - when they did that initial search in a 'forest area behind the Buninyong Golf Club'.
The dam off Slaughterhouse Road (where the phone was found) is a little further away in that direction.

View attachment 525950

Google Maps

5th Feb: "A search is underway in the forest area behind the Buninyong Golf Club." Link
True good point SouthAussie
Do you have the coordinates of that dam on google maps ?
 
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Ah ok I found the tower coordinates on the OzTowers website too but for the location I starred. But perhaps my tower I found was down and it was the golf course one. I was under the impression there was just one tower as I read on another site just 1 Buninyong tower and those were my coordinates according to OzTowers hmmm

One of Sam's family members intimated that her phone pinged near the Buninyong Golf Club.

Ms Murphy was a “very experienced walker”, the family member said, but it was “not usual” that her phone had pinged near the Buninyong Golf Club. Link

And the Herald Sun said ...
a.jpg
Link

They don't say if it was the (alleged) 5pm ping ... or if there even was a ping at 5pm. I guess we might have to wait for the trial to hear what time the final ping was.
 
That certainly sounds very plausible.
IIRC, there was some mention a while back of the accused having had access to the property on which the dam was located - work perhaps - I can't recall, but it sounded legitimate. MOO
I've tried to find the post and am still looking.
Wil post when found.
AFAIK this was all speculation - possible trails on the property that he rode his motorbike on, possible work undertaken at the property as fairly new and large outbuildings were a recent addition etc. I don't believe anything was ever proven, just the imagination of Web Sleuthers.
 
I'm thinking that after PS (allegedly) murdered Samantha he did indeed get a pal to help. But he would have painted it as an accident - "she just ran right out in front of me!" or similar. "But they'll pin it on me!" etc. I find it difficult to believe that 2 murderers existed in his circle of friends. What I can believe is that the friend who probably helped him believed that it wasn't actually murder. When we finally come to trial and learn a lot more of the details, it wouldn't surprise me at all if said friend (assuming he exists) realises that he helped a murderer, and tells all that he knows.

But honestly,
who would be so...stupid?...naive?...
to become an accessory to crime?

Loyalty has its limits IMO.
To ruin one's life to "help" a mate?
To risk landing in prison?
To have criminal record?
:oops:

Besides,
the body has not been found.
This imaginary "helper" must have nerves of steel not to confess already,
even only to reduce the charge.
(Not to mention pangs of conscience)

Nah,
I think the crime was committed solely by ONE person.
And it means concealing the victim too.

Considering the terrain,
poor Samantha can be anywhere.

JMO
 
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But honestly,
who would be so...stupid?...naive?...
to become an accessory to crime?

Loyalty has its limits IMO.
To ruin one's life to "help" a mate?
To risk landing in prison?
To have criminal record?
:oops:

Besides,
the body has not been found.
This imaginary "helper" must have nerves of steel not to confess already,
even only to reduce the charge.
(Not to mention pangs of conscience)

Nah,
I think the crime was committed solely by ONE person.
And it means concealing the victim too.

Considering the terrain,
poor Samantha can be anywhere.

JMO
Personally I do not think we are going to see evidence of an accomplice partially for the reasons you mention. We are going to see cell phone data that shows that at that early hour those two phones spent some time together then moved away together. Some CCTV putting him in the area, then some forensics from his vehicle(s) linking him to this crime.
 
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