Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

[Dotta]

My Goodness!
This boat was full of clutter
So unsafe, with crew apparently not trained enough.

It was a disaster waiting to happen!
And, unfortunately, it happened

Not all is gold that glitters.

Terrible deaths by drowning.
On an "unsinkable" yacht.

RIP to all poor victims.
Sincere condolences to families.

JMO

 

[Rikissa]

My guess is that HL was staying in the first cabin on the left after the master suit (her parents' cabin), as it seems to be a smaller cabin compared to the others (see post #191). As far as I've seen we don't know in which cabins the other guests were staying, on the left or the right side, and whether they were found in their own cabin/s or not. The young couple with the baby was above deck, perhaps also the other younger couple was there too. Or their cabin had been next to the stairs, and they had easy access/easy to find the stairs in darkness.
The question is, does the "found in compartment" where the other five was found mean that all were found in one cabin, in some other area, or that the couples were in their cabins, and ML were in one of those cabins too? Or could the bodies have floated into the same 'compartment' as the left side of the yacht was "up"?

I don't know what language the press conference was held in, Italian and/or English, and how familiar the Italian officials are with all the nuances of English, and the same goes for the journalists' knowledge of Italian. Even small language barriers can cause misunderstandings.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know what language the press conference was held in, Italian and/or English, and how familiar the Italian officials are with all the nuances of English, and the same goes for the journalists' knowledge of Italian. Even small language barriers can cause misunderstandings.

I think it was held in Italian only, because this article cites BBC translation.


" Ambrogio Cartosio, the head of the prosecutor’s office in Termini Imerese, said in a press conference at the town’s court on Saturday..... according to a BBC translation"

Sicily yacht sinking could be result of human error, prosecutor suggests

Ambrogio Cartosio ‘absolutely not ruling anything out’ as he opens inquiry into deaths of seven people in sinking

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dotta]

I think it was held in Italian, because this article cites BBC translation.


" Ambrogio Cartosio, the head of the prosecutor’s office in Termini Imerese, said in a press conference at the town’s court on Saturday..... according to a BBC translation"

Sicily yacht sinking could be result of human error, prosecutor suggests

Ambrogio Cartosio ‘absolutely not ruling anything out’ as he opens inquiry into deaths of seven people in sinking

www.theguardian.com

They are in Italy so they speak Italian.

 

[JennieM]

The 16 minutes that plunged the Bayesian yacht into a death spiral

Sicily wreck: Why did Bayesian yacht sink in 16 minutes?

The BBC's Mark Lowen in Sicily hears how a rapid chain of events in the middle of the night haunts and dumbfounds so many.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[RedHaus]

The question is, does the "found in compartment" where the other five was found mean that all were found in one cabin, in some other area, or that the couples were in their cabins, and ML were in one of those cabins too? Or could the bodies have floated into the same 'compartment' as the left side of the yacht was "up"?

RSBM
I have the same question, @Rikissa.

Having deeply sleuthed a case on WS that involved finding a body in a submerged car, dead bodies under water can move, and perhaps unpredictably.

So it makes me wonder, given the description of how the 5 guests were found together in one cabin confined by furniture and debris, as reported by a diver, if the 5 floated there post mortem as the yacht sank, given the myriad of currents and pressure changes that must have occurred. HL on the other hand may have been in her cabin behind a closed door and thus stayed there.

IOW, I caution against assuming the 5 found together were seeking the final air pocket in an attempt to survive. Especially if there was no power (and presumably no light), as has been reported (by 3:56am), and their close proximity to a (sideways) staircase that might have provided an escape if they were alive. For all we know, they could have drowned in their cabins or in the hallways while trying to escape or wake others and then floated to where they were found, along with furniture, like a debris field in a flood, if you may.

All IMO.
Edited to refine points.

 

[LadyL]

The mother went upstairs to ask the crew what was happening (noise, vibrations or what ever...).That's why she was on the deck and got or was rushed in the lifeboat

source?

 

[vls12345]

Mike Lynch’s wife Angela Bacares describes cutting her feet on broken glass as she fled doomed superyacht Bayesian

The wife of British billionaire Mike Lynch described her harrowing escape from their 184-foot superyacht before it capsized and sank during a squall of the coast of Sicily.

nypost.com

Here's what we know about why a luxury sailing boat sank off the coast of Sicily

A small waterspout - a type of tornado - spun over the Mediterranean island early Monday, likely capsizing the sailing boat amid lashings of rain and strong thunderstorms.

abc7chicago.com

This is the extent of coverage that I have seen regarding her statements.

 

[Tortoise]

My guess is that HL was staying in the first cabin on the left after the master suit (her parents' cabin), as it seems to be a smaller cabin compared to the others (see post #191). As far as I've seen we don't know in which cabins the other guests were staying, on the left or the right side, and whether they were found in their own cabin/s or not. The young couple with the baby was above deck, perhaps also the other younger couple was there too. Or their cabin had been next to the stairs, and they had easy access/easy to find the stairs in darkness.
The question is, does the "found in compartment" where the other five was found mean that all were found in one cabin, in some other area, or that the couples were in their cabins, and ML were in one of those cabins too? Or could the bodies have floated into the same 'compartment' as the left side of the yacht was "up"?

I don't know what language the press conference was held in, Italian and/or English, and how familiar the Italian officials are with all the nuances of English, and the same goes for the journalists' knowledge of Italian. Even small language barriers can cause misunderstandings.

This article explains that the five (excluding Hannah) weren't in their own cabins.

(from post #134 above)


"It comes as Italian media reported that the victims were found on the opposite side of the yacht from their cabins, suggesting they may have been trying to escape the incoming water.

‘We found them all on that side . . . we had maps with the layout of the cabins and the positions of the guests, and that’s not where we recovered them,’ a source said."

Italian authorities issue update on search for missing Hannah Lynch

 

[Yellowbelly]

That would mean her mum escaped and her dad tried to escape, without either of them trying to wake her up? I am not sure about this.

I know it seems odd, but that does seem to be what the evidence is suggesting. Perhaps everything happened so quickly that there wasn't time. We know Angela Bacares had to walk over broken glass to get out, which isn't something you're going to do if there's any alternative, so perhaps she only just made it out herself.

 

[Yellowbelly]

7h ago
15.54 BST

Closing summary

Prosecutors said they had opened an initial investigation into manslaughter and negligent shipwreck

Ambrogio Cartosio, public prosecutor in the Sicilian town of Termini Imerese, said he believed it was “probable that offences were committed”

The coastguard’s Rear Admiral Raffaele Macauda said the weather on the night of the sinking was “abnormal” but that there “wasn’t anything to suggest there could be an extreme situation arising”

The yacht rolled onto its right side as it sank, and six of the seven bodies recovered were found in cabins on its left, officials said

Prosecutors also said the incident happened “really, really suddenly” and that it was possible the ship was hit by a downburst, a powerful gush of wind that descends from a thunderstorm and spreads out quickly from its area of impact

Sicily yacht sinking: trapped passengers ‘may have died on Bayesian because they were asleep’ – as it happened

Public prosecutor launches inquiry into deaths of British tech tycoon Mike Lynch and six others people in sinking off coast of Italian island

www.theguardian.com

Downbursts are better known for being a problem for aviation, as they create strong wind shear, which can be deadly for aircraft.

Downburst - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ItalyReader]

I know it seems odd, but that does seem to be what the evidence is suggesting. Perhaps everything happened so quickly that there wasn't time. We know Angela Bacares had to walk over broken glass to get out, which isn't something you're going to do if there's any alternative, so perhaps she only just made it out herself.

honestly having 2 teenagers aged 18 and 19, the sound cancelling headphones come to mind in a strong way.
They can’t hear us.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

honestly having 2 teenagers aged 18 and 19, the sound cancelling headphones come to mind in a strong way.
They can’t hear us.

Maybe. Another possibility: Her mom said she went up on the deck to find out what was going on, she may have been able to traverse stairs that shortly thereafter became impassible. MOOO.

 

[Dotta]

There are a few important rules to keep you safe on water:

- Never stay below deck in case of weather deterioration

- Be sure to check the weather forecast and watch the sky

- Moor in places sheltered from the wind

- Thoroughly check the equipment

- Everyone on board should learn what to do in the event of serious trouble
(to avoid the likelihood of panic on board)

- Before setting off,
everyone should know where the life-saving equipment and first aid kit are located and
who is responsible for safety on the yacht

- If the wind is above 3 on the Beaufort scale,
then life jackets should be worn.
On small and unstable yachts, it is recommended to wear life jackets regardless of the wind force.

These are rules my Dad (an avid sailor) taught me when I was a teen.

I never liked sailing
But...
I loved singing Sea Shanties

 

[Yellowbelly]

There are a few important rules to keep you safe on water:

- Never stay below deck in case of weather deterioration

- Be sure to check the weather forecast and watch the sky

- Moor in places sheltered from the wind

- Thoroughly check the equipment

- Everyone on board should learn what to do in the event of serious trouble
(to avoid the likelihood of panic on board)

- Before setting off,
everyone should know where the life-saving equipment and first aid kit are located and
who is responsible for safety on the yacht

- If the wind is above 3 on the Beaufort scale,
then life jackets should be worn.
On small and unstable yachts, it is recommended to wear life jackets regardless of the wind force.

These are rules my Dad (an avid sailor) taught me when I was a teen.

I never liked sailing
But...
I loved singing Sea Shanties

All seems like very sensible advice. Perhaps the crews on luxury yachts learn not to inconvenience their well heeled passengers too much, and usually, that doesn't matter.

I suspect a few years down the line when we get to the stage of the final reports we'll find that the key oversight was raising the keel when they anchored for the night when there was no need to do so. They weren't in shallow water. Why do it then? It will probably turn out that that's what they always did when they anchored for the night. The force of habit can be a dangerous thing sometimes.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Does anyone know who originally commissioned “Bayesian” when it was built, circa 2008? Under its old name.
Driving me crazy that we saw this ship in Ibiza, we were staying in coastal property next to where it was anchored and sail was only one to be visible above the cliffs. prob 10+ yrs ago, it was striking that its mast was ginormous, very modern look and ship, we were told sails etc were “fully” computerized … recollection it was a Microsoft or Apple exec. At was ultra advanced tech at the time.
Clearly this is scrubbed off internet, prob since it sold.
Does anyone know original owner?

 

[Yellowbelly]

Does anyone know who originally commissioned “Bayesian” when it was built, circa 2008? Under its old name.
Driving me crazy that we saw this ship in Ibiza, we were staying in coastal property next to where it was anchored and sail was only one to be visible above the cliffs. prob 10+ yrs ago, it was striking that its mast was ginormous, very modern look and ship, we were told sails etc were “fully” computerized … recollection it was a Microsoft or Apple exec. At was ultra advanced tech at the time.
Clearly this is scrubbed off internet, prob since it sold.
Does anyone know original owner?

Apparently, as the 'Salute', it was originally owned by John Groenewoud, a Dutch real estate developer.

All about the $40M Bayesian yacht that capsized, leaving 6 dead and 1 still missing

The massive superyacht that sank off the coast of Italy on Monday won numerous awards for its sleek interior design — and was sold to its original owner for nearly $40 million.

nypost.com

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Apparently, as the 'Salute', it was originally owned by John Groenewoud, a Dutch real estate developer.

All about the $40M Bayesian yacht that capsized, leaving 6 dead and 1 still missing

The massive superyacht that sank off the coast of Italy on Monday won numerous awards for its sleek interior design — and was sold to its original owner for nearly $40 million.

nypost.com

Well thank you … maybe the Ibiza ship was different ginormous mast ship, or perhaps the tech exec was chartering it.
Thank you I hadn’t been able to find orig owner in news, just the decorators.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

This is the Italian law about captains having to leave the ship last, which is only explicit in a few countries:
The captain must abandon the ship last

Codice della navigazione aggiornato - Artt. 265 - 322

Articoli da 265 a 322 del Codice della navigazione italiano aggiornato

www-fog-it.translate.goog

This is an Italian government investigative report (in english) on the Costa Concordia, which I think is somewhat relevant. That involved flooding as well as Italian criminal prosecutions of the crew:

https://www.transportes.gob.es/recursos_mfom/2012costaconcordia.pdf

This is the indictment of the ship's captain of the Conception, which I also think is relevant. I find similarities with that with the passengers seemingly trapped while only one crew member died in that:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65587672/1/united-states-v-boylan/

Also just for reference is the Bayesian layout:

BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Interactive, detailed layout / general arrangement of BAYESIAN, the 56m Perini Navi Yachts super yacht with naval architecture by Ron Holland Design with an interior by Remi Tessier

www.yachtcharterfleet.com

 

[LadyL]

This is the Italian law about captains having to leave the ship last, which is only explicit in a few countries:
The captain must abandon the ship last

Codice della navigazione aggiornato - Artt. 265 - 322

Articoli da 265 a 322 del Codice della navigazione italiano aggiornato

www-fog-it.translate.goog

This is an Italian government investigative report (in english) on the Costa Concordia, which I think is somewhat relevant. That involved flooding as well as Italian criminal prosecutions of the crew:

https://www.transportes.gob.es/recursos_mfom/2012costaconcordia.pdf

This is the indictment of the ship's captain of the Conception, which I also think is relevant. I find similarities with that with the passengers seemingly trapped while only one crew member died in that:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65587672/1/united-states-v-boylan/

Also just for reference is the Bayesian layout:

BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Interactive, detailed layout / general arrangement of BAYESIAN, the 56m Perini Navi Yachts super yacht with naval architecture by Ron Holland Design with an interior by Remi Tessier

www.yachtcharterfleet.com

but what if he was thrown off the deck into the water like some of the others (maybe all)? he can't exactly climb back up