PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

[cujenn81]

I have come to believe that sometimes, (not always), suicide is the conclusion for lazy coroners/medical examiners, and detectives. It is so much less time consuming to call a dead body a suicide. So much less work!!!!! they just close the case. that's it.

I’m very late to the game here because I just learned about this case. I recently read the book “Working Stiff: Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner” by Judy Melinek. When she was working as a medical examiner in NYC, LE tried to convince her to rule a death as suicide or accident any time it was even remotely possible.

One example she provided: a wealthy 60-something woman was found dead at the bottom of her stairs by her estranged husband. Her apartment appeared to be ransacked, the husband didn’t have a key, and he tried to sell her very expensive jewelry to a nearby pawn shop the next day. That’s how the medical examiner became aware that her death might not have been an innocent fall. The owner of the pawn shop knew the deceased woman, recognized the jewelry her estranged husband was trying to sell, and contacted a mutual friend. The friend contacted the ME and relayed all of this information to her. The ME decided to re-examine the woman’s back the following day after lividity had settled and found bruises in the shape of a handprint—indicating she’d been pushed down the stairs. When she took all of this evidence to the investigators (the handprints, the jewelry, the ransacked apartment, the fact that her estranged husband found her deceased but didn’t have access and they hadn’t spoken to each other in years), they asked her if it was possible that EMS caused the bruising when rendering aid and that she’s just a messy person. She said while it was technically possible, it was also highly unlikely. They still wanted her to rule the death an accident, but she refused and ruled it a homicide.

She said this happened all the time.

 

[asmi106082]

I'm new too WS but i love it and this case caught my eye. I want to try and bump it back up so maybe we can get a few more eyes on it again. Thesse poor parents have had to fight this for 13 years. This breaks my heart.
pennlive.com/crime/2024/04/ellen-greenberg-case-bombshell-her-body-was-moved-family-attorney-says-in-court.html

Welcome to WS!

 

[Artis]

He had every excuse under the sun to not help her... why? jmo

Because he murdered her - IN MY OPINION.

This case is so disgusting. I'd read he comes from a politically connected family so that probably explains it.

There are actually a lot of murders that get written off as suicide. This one, though, takes the cake.

 

[Artis]

Actually that would be Bernie Madoff, who did the biggest pozie scheme (named after charles ponzie who was the first guy on record to do this!) and lied to clients in the Black Monday 1987 stock market crash and then caused the 2008 housing crash.

After that is Jordan Belfort, the main inspiration for "Wolf of Wall Street".

Both are psychopaths, which is very common to find in the financial sector.

Psychopaths on Wall Street by Ronald Schouten, MD, JD writes in their published article paper:

The headline-grabbing factoid in the article was an estimate that 10% of people in the financial services industry are psychopaths. And that’s a conservative estimate, according to Christopher Bayer, a Wall Street psychotherapist cited by DeCovny.

DeCovny describes “financial psychopaths” as individuals who seek thrills, lack empathy, don’t care about what others think, are charming and intelligent, and are skilled at lying and manipulation. Citing Richard Peterson, managing partner of MarketPsych (a firm that provides psychological and behavioral finance training for the industry), DeCovny notes that these are some of the traits that also predict success on Wall Street.

To understand the implications of all this, it helps to define psychopathy. It is a psychological condition based on well-established diagnostic criteria. These include glibness and superficial charm, conning and manipulative behavior, lack of remorse and empathy, refusal to take responsibility for one’s behavior, and others.

Determining whether a person is a psychopath is generally done using a test like the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R), developed by Robert Hare and his colleagues. People who are “normal” invariably score a few points on such scales. True psychopaths score in the top 25%.

Using formal diagnostic criteria, researchers have estimated that about 1% of Americans — about 3 million people — are psychopaths. Based on statistics alone, there are some true psychopaths on Wall Street, as there are in all walks of life. The odds increase further when we consider the competitive advantage that some of the characteristics of psychopathy, including willingness to take risks, can provide in the field.

So glad you joined. This is a subject that I've also been interested in for years. I'm convinced that the actual population percentages of psychopaths and cluster B are vastly underestimated. Robert Hare also co-authored a book about psychopaths in business, called Snakes in Suits. I'd estimate that the presence of these aliens posing as human is just as high in the top echelon of politics. I highly recommend doing a search for "Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes by Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Ph.D.".

 

[ilovewings]

I’m very late to the game here because I just learned about this case. I recently read the book “Working Stiff: Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner” by Judy Melinek. When she was working as a medical examiner in NYC, LE tried to convince her to rule a death as suicide or accident any time it was even remotely possible.

One example she provided: a wealthy 60-something woman was found dead at the bottom of her stairs by her estranged husband. Her apartment appeared to be ransacked, the husband didn’t have a key, and he tried to sell her very expensive jewelry to a nearby pawn shop the next day. That’s how the medical examiner became aware that her death might not have been an innocent fall. The owner of the pawn shop knew the deceased woman, recognized the jewelry her estranged husband was trying to sell, and contacted a mutual friend. The friend contacted the ME and relayed all of this information to her. The ME decided to re-examine the woman’s back the following day after lividity had settled and found bruises in the shape of a handprint—indicating she’d been pushed down the stairs. When she took all of this evidence to the investigators (the handprints, the jewelry, the ransacked apartment, the fact that her estranged husband found her deceased but didn’t have access and they hadn’t spoken to each other in years), they asked her if it was possible that EMS caused the bruising when rendering aid and that she’s just a messy person. She said while it was technically possible, it was also highly unlikely. They still wanted her to rule the death an accident, but she refused and ruled it a homicide.

She said this happened all the time.

I am so not surprised. I believe that some police, when they first approach a potential crime scene, unless a homicide is extremely obvious, the first thing that comes to their mind is suicide. I have to think this happens for several reasons, one of which is they are so busy, it would be so much easier to call a crime scene a suicide- much less work-- actually it isn't even a crime scene if it is a suicide. I have watched so much true crime and have seen this too many times-- and later of course it turns out to be a homicide. Why do you think ME's are pressured to call a case a suicide when the case could be a homicide? Cases like Rebecca Zahau and Ellen Greenberg have become high profile, but think of all the cases that are ruled suicides that may actually be homicides, but those cases never see the light of day.

 

[arielilane]

There’s conflicting information as noted below:

A civil suit reveals new details in the case of Ellen Greenberg, whose death by 20 stab wounds was ruled suicide. Attorney Joseph Podraza Represents the Family | Lamb McErlane PC

‘It was very, very weird’: A civil suit reveals new details in the case of Ellen Greenberg, whose death by 20 stab wounds was ruled suicide. Lamb McErlane attorney Joseph R. Podraza represents the Greenberg family.

www.lambmcerlane.com

From 911 call- The operator then instructs Goldberg to lay Ellen on her back and take off her shirt. Goldberg, who noted that Ellen was already on her back, struggled.


The 911 call paints a clearer picture about what the first chaotic moments were like after Ellen’s body was found. But it also revealed an inconsistency with police’s long-held stance that Ellen was never moved from the slumped position on the floor in which she was found when they arrived, with her head, neck, and shoulders propped against corner cabinets — not, as Goldberg said on the call, lying on her back on the floor.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848115053444186566

 

[Quiet Time]

Kinda looks like her boyfriend, just a little tussled.

jmo

 

[Tower]

Kinda looks like her boyfriend, just a little tussled.

jmo

I think so, too.

 

[flaming_rainbow]

If that isn’t him, that’s his twin. Sorry but he killed her.

 

[arielilane]

The footage, obtained and cut by Fox News, showed Sam Goldberg in a pair of grey shorts and what appears to be a blue Penn State T-shirt clutching his phone in his hands as he walked down the hallway towards the apartment's gym.

Clip shows man bouncing around Ellen Greenberg's apartment building

UPDATED: 15:00 EDT, 22 October 2024

 

[snarast]

The footage, obtained and cut by Fox News, showed Sam Goldberg in a pair of grey shorts and what appears to be a blue Penn State T-shirt clutching his phone in his hands as he walked down the hallway towards the apartment's gym.

Clip shows man bouncing around Ellen Greenberg's apartment building

UPDATED: 15:00 EDT, 22 October 2024

This is just……bats*** crazy stuff. Who does he think he is?

 

[arielilane]

Surveillance video shows Ellen Greenberg's fiancé Sam Goldberg wearing shorts when he goes up to find her in their apartment.But the paramedic who was one of the first on the scene says he is sure Goldberg was wearing sweatpants when he arrived. Latest report from Philly:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1837496322196189324

Here's a photo of SG wearing gray shorts.




The visibly sweaty Goldberg then walked back on screen, after a while, and appeared to holding a paper towel or tissue while dabbing at something on his hands.

Though it's unclear what he's wiping, there's a visible dark color against the white.

He stood there looking at his hand for a few seconds before pressing the elevator button to go up.

At some point, he went back downstairs with nothing in his hands and once again walked off camera.

He then came back into the elevator on the right, before coming back downstairs with a visible bulge in his right pocket.

Goldberg stood inches away from the elevator doors while looking down at his phone, so close he had to back up to get out of the way of another person getting off at the lobby.

He quickly entered the elevator once again - counting a total of four times in the span of around two hours - from 4pm to 6.10pm according to PennLive.

Clip shows man bouncing around Ellen Greenberg's apartment building

Greenberg's tragic death has since been ruled a suicide - but advocates have long argued that her stab wounds were inconsistent with being self-inflicted.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[snarast]

It’s deplorable. What I find very strange is that she must have appeared to have one stab to the chest and nothing more - otherwise how can you possibly assume that it was suicide?

How is that possible? Someone must have arranged her to appear to only have that one stab.

And though I may sound like a broken record:

1. How many women commit suicide by stabbing themselves in the heart?
2. How many women commit suicide by repeatedly stabbing themselves in the back of their neck into the brain?
3. In fact - Are there de facto women or men who actually have committed suicide by stabbing themselves in the back of their neck neck into the brain?

Someone should mine PubMed for this - it would be enlightening.

 

[IDK]

Here's a photo of SG wearing gray shorts.


View attachment 539998

The visibly sweaty Goldberg then walked back on screen, after a while, and appeared to holding a paper towel or tissue while dabbing at something on his hands.

Though it's unclear what he's wiping, there's a visible dark color against the white.

He stood there looking at his hand for a few seconds before pressing the elevator button to go up.

At some point, he went back downstairs with nothing in his hands and once again walked off camera.

He then came back into the elevator on the right, before coming back downstairs with a visible bulge in his right pocket.

Goldberg stood inches away from the elevator doors while looking down at his phone, so close he had to back up to get out of the way of another person getting off at the lobby.

He quickly entered the elevator once again - counting a total of four times in the span of around two hours - from 4pm to 6.10pm according to PennLive.

Clip shows man bouncing around Ellen Greenberg's apartment building

Greenberg's tragic death has since been ruled a suicide - but advocates have long argued that her stab wounds were inconsistent with being self-inflicted.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wish we could view that unedited video.

 

[arielilane]

AUG. 2 2024

PA. SUPREME COURT TO WEIGH WHETHER ESTATES MAY CHALLENGE FAULTY DEATH CERTIFICATE FINDINGS – GREENBERG​

Pa. Supreme Court to Weigh Whether Estates May Challenge Faulty Death Certificate Findings - Greenberg | Lamb McErlane PC