PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Ironhorse 332]

Tonight's episode is about Ray Gricar.
YouTube /@unsolvednomore

 

[J. J. in Phila]

They did Brenda Condon earlier. She was another Centre County missing person's case.

 

[Black Diamond]

Tonight's episode is about Ray Gricar.
YouTube /@unsolvednomore

Not a bad discussion. It would be nice to get a tidbit of the inside info not known by the public he mentions that he heard from the detective.

 

[Betty P]

Not a bad discussion. It would be nice to get a tidbit of the inside info not known by the public he mentions that he heard from the detective.

Yes, I'm looking forward to his next report, if he decides to continue. I was somewhat surprised to learn that he was somewhat close to and familiar with the case. He didn't know Ray personally, but knew of him. He said some referred to him as "quirky". Maybe that also meant he was independent?

Though he was a respected prosecutor for many years, I've always wondered if some locals in the criminal justice system still considered Ray an "outsider" because he wasn't from their area, but from Cleveland, OH.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, I'm looking forward to his next report, if he decides to continue. I was somewhat surprised to learn that he was somewhat close to and familiar with the case. He didn't know Ray personally, but knew of him. He said some referred to him as "quirky". Maybe that also meant he was independent?

Though he was a respected prosecutor for many years, I've always wondered if some locals in the criminal justice system still considered Ray an "outsider" because he wasn't from their area, but from Cleveland, OH.

For many people in Centre County an "outsider" is someone without a Penn State connection. He first ex-wife was a professor there and his girlfriend was an alumna. I think he would be considered an insider. A LOT of central PA is like that.

 

[Betty P]

For many people in Centre County an "outsider" is someone without a Penn State connection. He first ex-wife was a professor there and his girlfriend was an alumna. I think he would be considered an insider. A LOT of central PA is like that.

It occurred to me that some in the community, specifically in law enforcement, thought of Ray as an "outsider" or not native to the area because most seemed to have a casual approach to Ray's disappearance. The attitude that "well he ran off with a woman" or "he took a bunch of money (?) and moved to another country" or "well his brother was depressed, so he must have committed suicide" has always sounded as if most people didn't really care what happened to Ray.

I heard a little of this in KM's podcast about Ray. Perhaps it's unintentional but it reflected what I've perceived in other locals who've been interviewed over the years. "Why are people still interested in this case?"

Aside from Ray's family and some close friends, no one seems to really care that he went missing. JMO It's a feeling that relevant locals seem to want to leave it in the past and feel little irritated that outsiders keep asking questions, trying to find out what happened to Ray.

JMO, only.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It occurred to me that some in the community, specifically in law enforcement, thought of Ray as an "outsider" or not native to the area because most seemed to have a casual approach to Ray's disappearance. The attitude that "well he ran off with a woman" or "he took a bunch of money (?) and moved to another country" or "well his brother was depressed, so he must have committed suicide" has always sounded as if most people didn't really care what happened to Ray.

I heard a little of this in KM's podcast about Ray. Perhaps it's unintentional but it reflected what I've perceived in other locals who've been interviewed over the years. "Why are people still interested in this case?"

Aside from Ray's family and some close friends, no one seems to really care that he went missing. JMO It's a feeling that relevant locals seem to want to leave it in the past and feel little irritated that outsiders keep asking questions, trying to find out what happened to Ray.

JMO, only.

Keep in mind that the people that thought RFG was with a woman were the people that knew him, not to mention the fact that witnesses (I think plural) saw him with a woman, who looked like an old girlfriend, in Lewisburg.

No one has suggested that RFG "took a bunch of money."

Suicide can to the forefront when the Gricar brothers showed up and talked about RFG's brother killing himself; it was their first thought. It was well known in 2005 that depression could lead to suicide and depression could be genetic. Anyone passingly familiar with the family of Ernest Hemingway would see that even in 2005. Couple that with everyone talking about RFG's change in demeanor and tiredness.

I am critical of some of the things LE did not do, but I have said that the initial investigation was very good, the first 48 hours. They followed up the initial leads.

 

[Betty P]

Keep in mind that the people that thought RFG was with a woman were the people that knew him, not to mention the fact that witnesses (I think plural) saw him with a woman, who looked like an old girlfriend, in Lewisburg.

No one has suggested that RFG "took a bunch of money."

Suicide can to the forefront when the Gricar brothers showed up and talked about RFG's brother killing himself; it was their first thought. It was well known in 2005 that depression could lead to suicide and depression could be genetic. Anyone passingly familiar with the family of Ernest Hemingway would see that even in 2005. Couple that with everyone talking about RFG's change in demeanor and tiredness.

I am critical of some of the things LE did not do, but I have said that the initial investigation was very good, the first 48 hours. They followed up the initial leads.

Thanks for your explanation J. J. , but it still doesn't explain why some locals seem so disinterested in trying to actively solve this cold case. That's why I was wondering if the lack of interest was due to Ray not being from the area, but from another state.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks for your explanation J. J. , but it still doesn't explain why some locals seem so disinterested in trying to actively solve this cold case. That's why I was wondering if the lack of interest was due to Ray not being from the area, but from another state.

Cost of the investigation and legacy protection.

 

[CG1692]

Hi, new here and trying to get up to speed.
Was the victim's cell phone sent for analysis?
Was the phone call to Patti at the court house verified to have occurred or was this ascertained during the polygraph?
Life insurance policy?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi, new here and trying to get up to speed.
Was the victim's cell phone sent for analysis?
Was the phone call to Patti at the court house verified to have occurred or was this ascertained during the polygraph?
Life insurance policy?

The looked at the call records for the cell phone; there is a record of the call from the cell phone and the call originated from Brush Valley. A witness saw RFG in the middle of Brush Valley, Centre Hall, very close to the time that the call was made (within 20 minutes).
There was a $30 k insurance policy that his daughter got, IIRC.

 

[CG1692]

The looked at the call records for the cell phone; there is a record of the call from the cell phone and the call originated from Brush Valley. A witness saw RFG in the middle of Brush Valley, Centre Hall, very close to the time that the call was made (within 20 minutes).
There was a $30 k insurance policy that his daughter got, IIRC.

Hi J.J., Thanks would you know if they looked at the towers not only when he went missing but historical information to see if he had a regular pattern up that way? Was the cell phone mirrored to retrieve any deleted information? My last question I promise.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi J.J., Thanks would you know if they looked at the towers not only when he went missing but historical information to see if he had a regular pattern up that way? Was the cell phone mirrored to retrieve any deleted information? My last question I promise.

He generally did not drive in that area on a regular basis. We know where he was the day before and it was at Raystown Lake.
They have the actual phone records. so it is not looking at the phone.

 

[CG1692]

He generally did not drive in that area on a regular basis. We know where he was the day before and it was at Raystown Lake.
They have the actual phone records. so it is not looking at the phone.

Understood, any chance they could mirror the phone? Not sure what the technology looked like back then.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Understood, any chance they could mirror the phone? Not sure what the technology looked like back then.

I have never heard that they did, but even if something was deleted, there would be a record of it with the carrier.

 

[CG1692]

I have never heard that they did, but even if something was deleted, there would be a record of it with the carrier.

Yes but only if it was transmitted. For example if he took a photo and then deleted it, that wont show up on the records, would show on the internal hard drive if it was mirrored. Also, carriers don't retain text messages in todays day an age, did they get texts back then?

 

[CG1692]

Yes but only if it was transmitted. For example if he took a photo and then deleted it, that wont show up on the records, would show on the internal hard drive if it was mirrored. Also, carriers don't retain text messages in todays day an age, did they get texts back then?

Sorry, let me clarify, carriers in Canada don't retain text messages. Not sure about US carriers. My bad.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes but only if it was transmitted. For example if he took a photo and then deleted it, that wont show up on the records, would show on the internal hard drive if it was mirrored. Also, carriers don't retain text messages in todays day an age, did they get texts back then?

At that time. it may not have a camera. I don't think it had Internet.

 

[Betty P]

Understood, any chance they could mirror the phone? Not sure what the technology looked like back then.

There were witnesses in Lewisburg who saw Ray talking on a cell phone on multiple occasions, but the call records for his personal cell phone didn't show records of calls during that time. For that reason, some of us have speculated Ray was using a "burner" phone that day.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There were witnesses in Lewisburg who saw Ray talking on a cell phone on multiple occasions, but the call records for his personal cell phone didn't show records of calls during that time. For that reason, some of us have speculated Ray was using a "burner" phone that day.

No. There were witnesses that think they saw RFG talking to himself, which might have been a Bluetooth device. They could not say that it was a phone for sure.