PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

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I don't doubt that people who are depressed may very well commit suicide to end their depression. What I've always had a problem with is that Roy couldn't swim, and also his timing. He was on his way to pick up the youngest son at a school function. That youngest son was either in kindergarten or first grade at the time. As a father on his way to get the youngest child, he pulls over and decides to jump off the bridge into the water???? Thats what I have a problem with it's timing and his method to end it. Ray didn't buy it either. Now why would Roy let his son to wonder where his daddy is? Also Roy couldn't swim and do you think it would be easy for Roy to jump into a great fear of water he had??? A high up bridge to boot. I can see why Ray didn't believe it either. Its not logical in my mind. I know they ruled it a suicide but seriously they need to look at that again. Tony the nephew even mentioned how both scenes were alike. Almost seems like the same person had to be involved. I would check the cases that started the year before Roys drowning and continued into 2005. The articles about Roys drowning was all false they said Roy was on his way to buy a bag of mulch. Funny how that was never corrected.
 
I don't doubt that people who are depressed may very well commit suicide to end their depression. What I've always had a problem with is that Roy couldn't swim, and also his timing. He was on his way to pick up the youngest son at a school function. That youngest son was either in kindergarten or first grade at the time. As a father on his way to get the youngest child, he pulls over and decides to jump off the bridge into the water???? Thats what I have a problem with it's timing and his method to end it. Ray didn't buy it either. Now why would Roy let his son to wonder where his daddy is? Also Roy couldn't swim and do you think it would be easy for Roy to jump into a great fear of water he had??? A high up bridge to boot. I can see why Ray didn't believe it either.

Okay:

1. Ray could swim, but not well.

2. I'm not sure if Roy could not swim or had a fear of water.

3. Roy did not stop on his way and jump. Her drove, IIRC about 30-40 miles out of his way to get to the spot where he jumped.
 
I have a hard time believing a father would fail to pick up a young child he was expected to get. Was his son with another trusted adult that he knew would not leave the child waiting for his father who did not show?
 
I have a hard time believing a father would fail to pick up a young child he was expected to get. Was his son with another trusted adult that he knew would not leave the child waiting for his father who did not show?


I think it was soccer practice. I don't know how "young," but either he or the people at the practice phoned home.
 
In May 1996, Roy J. Gricar -- Ray Gricar's brother and Tony Gricar's dad -- disappeared in Dayton, Ohio. His car was found abandoned across the street from the office where his son worked. A search of the area was conducted, but authorities found no trace of Roy Gricar.

"He was missing for a few days before his body turned up in the [Great Miami] River," Tony Gricar said. "He was a mile down the river. His body found one morning by joggers on a bike path that runs by there."

The coroner later ruled Roy Gricar's death a suicide by drowning. He reportedly had been fired from his job as a private contractor at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in the days leading up to his death and had suffered from bipolar disorder.

Tony Gricar is uncertain what to think when he looks back on his dad's death.

"He was not a swimmer," Tony said of his father. "He was not a fan of water. So, if there has ever been anything questionable about my dad's suicide, that is it. It's sort of like if you're afraid of fire, you're not going to set yourself on fire. So that is the one question that's always been in the back of my mind. Other than that, it's cut and dry."

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/
 
LOHR: Not really. I mean, according to the nephew, he never exhibited any signs. And the nephew himself, he actually questions his own dad`s death.

He said his father was afraid of the water, didn`t know how to swim, didn`t want anything to do with the water. So, in his mind, you know, if you`re somebody who`s afraid of fire, are you going to burn yourself to death?

So those questions have always been on his mind in regard to his father. And in regard to his uncle, he was there the week after he went missing. He stood on the bridge. He said that it was about a 25-foot drop to the water below.

He said it was shallow. The worst thing that would have happened is you would have broke your leg. He said more concerning at that point would have been hypothermia. So it seems unlikely he would have jumped into the water and drowned.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/25/ng.01.html
 
LOHR: Not really. I mean, according to the nephew, he never exhibited any signs. And the nephew himself, he actually questions his own dad`s death.

He said his father was afraid of the water, didn`t know how to swim, didn`t want anything to do with the water. So, in his mind, you know, if you`re somebody who`s afraid of fire, are you going to burn yourself to death?

So those questions have always been on his mind in regard to his father. And in regard to his uncle, he was there the week after he went missing. He stood on the bridge. He said that it was about a 25-foot drop to the water below.

He said it was shallow. The worst thing that would have happened is you would have broke your leg. He said more concerning at that point would have been hypothermia. So it seems unlikely he would have jumped into the water and drowned.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/25/ng.01.html

I'd forgotten about that. TG mentioned the hypothermia.

Thanks.
 
I've seen a copy of the petition, that I can't post.

No new information and everything related to LE is from quotes in the newspaper.

The petition was date stamped 6/30/11. LG signed her part, in WA, on 6/17/11.
 
How old was Tony when his father Roy died? Did Roy have any other sons? Was he a man of means who would have left a sizable estate?

Has Tony said what he believes happened to his Uncle Ray Gricar? How much input has he had in things such as interviews with media in the years since Ray has been missing?

I think that any time two close relatives are presumed to have possibly died by the same unusual means ( suicide in a shallow river 30 or so miles " out of the way"), one should look at the common denominators in both deaths. One is a confirmed death, while one is a possible unconfirmed theory of suicide, of course.

I would very much like to read a copy of Roy Cricar's autopsy report. Areas of interest include locations of any fractures or other antemortem trauma and the toxicology report. Ray had to have known this was a gruesome and painful way to die, with the water being shallow and cold. What ARE the chances that he would have chosen the same method in the same river? I think they are so slim as to be a fraction of 1 percent. IF he was even suicidal, which I also highly doubt.

I also wonder how Ray Gricar, highly trained in matters related to death via his profession, accepted his brother's death as a suicide at face value.. or IF he did? I wonder how much conversation was generated by Ray regarding his brother's demise... if any.. Or who would have known about it due to their association with Ray at the time?

There are 4 possibilities: 1) Roy Gricar committed suicide in a probably very inept and painful way. 2) Roy Gricar was murdered and his body was found in the river. 3) Ray Gricar committed suicide in the same improbable manner as his brother, jumping in daylight hours from a high bridge into the shallow Susq. River or 4) Someone wanted the world at large to think Ray Gricar committed suicide via the above method.. dropping the PC and HD into the shallow river at another point in time where they were likely to be found, and were recovered...

Want to do some probablilty stats on the above? Or have you done so already? :)

This is one case I cannot " walk away" from, pardon the pun.
Maria
 
How old was Tony when his father Roy died? Did Roy have any other sons? Was he a man of means who would have left a sizable estate?

Tony has two brothers, one was under 18 at the time of the disappearance. As far as I know, not a gigantic one. He was a government employee.

Has Tony said what he believes happened to his Uncle Ray Gricar? How much input has he had in things such as interviews with media in the years since Ray has been missing?

He raised suicide a lot early on, but in his last interview, he backed away from it. Early on, Tony did a lot, though he pulled back in 2009. He had little contact with LE.


I would very much like to read a copy of Roy Cricar's autopsy report. Areas of interest include locations of any fractures or other antemortem trauma and the toxicology report. Ray had to have known this was a gruesome and painful way to die, with the water being shallow and cold. What ARE the chances that he would have chosen the same method in the same river? I think they are so slim as to be a fraction of 1 percent. IF he was even suicidal, which I also highly doubt.

These were two different, non-connected rivers in two different states. As far as know, and Tony read the report, and something on his father's mental state. He came out of it with suicide.

I also wonder how Ray Gricar, highly trained in matters related to death via his profession, accepted his brother's death as a suicide at face value.. or IF he did? I wonder how much conversation was generated by Ray regarding his brother's demise... if any.. Or who would have known about it due to their association with Ray at the time?

He never raised it with the family, according to Tony. RFG had a hard time understanding or accepting mental illness, in his professional life.

There are 4 possibilities: 1) Roy Gricar committed suicide in a probably very inept and painful way. 2) Roy Gricar was murdered and his body was found in the river.

There was no evidence that Roy's death was anything but suicide. Roy, I think, was bipolar.

3) Ray Gricar committed suicide in the same improbable manner as his brother, jumping in daylight hours from a high bridge into the shallow Susq. River

Roy died in the Miami River in Ohio. The Susquehanna was high on 4/15/05, swift and cold. It is possible for someone to jump into it and drown or die of exposure. It, however, usually yields a body.

or 4) Someone wanted the world at large to think Ray Gricar committed suicide via the above method.. dropping the PC and HD into the shallow river at another point in time where they were likely to be found, and were recovered...

RFG was known to have wanted get rid of the data on the laptop and he did the computer searches about destroying the drive. Tony said that, as soon as they heard the location of the Mini, on Water Street, both he and his brother said "Suicide." That is understandable when remembering what they went through with their own father.

Everyone was thinking suicide after the Mini was found, and the searches focused on the Susquehanna.
 

OMG. JJ, I almost came back on line last night to ask you when or if you thought Ray's next of kin would have him declared legally deceased. OMG. This means there will be more investigations, it's all over, right?

He's either alive and finally truly free, or he is now an UID.

JJ, do you know if the part of his county pension plan which was vested now goes to his beneficiary or beneficiaries? Is that why the " financial hardship" statements were made by both Lara and Patty? Patty already owned the house and the car.
IMO, this was done not for " closure". There is NO closure for the loved ones of a missing person without a body, either breathing or long dead.

Ray Gricar, I am praying that you are living your own version of " the good life" in Costa Rica or maybe Brazil ( no extradition in case there is something in your past we don't know) or any place of your choosing.
And someday. I hope you Google " Ray Gricar" and find posts from a group of people who never met you, never knew you, but who care very much about you just the same. Your name doesn't matter, your location doesn't matter ( if you are alive). Be happy, be free, and be ALIVE!!!
 
OMG. JJ, I almost came back on line last night to ask you when or if you thought Ray's next of kin would have him declared legally deceased. OMG. This means there will be more investigations, it's all over, right?

He's either alive and finally truly free, or he is now an UID.

Even LG's attorney said the investigation will continue. As late as last week, LE was folowing up a lead.

JJ, do you know if the part of his county pension plan which was vested now goes to his beneficiary or beneficiaries? Is that why the " financial hardship" statements were made by both Lara and Patty? Patty already owned the house and the car.

I know of no "financial hardship statements." His pension will go to his beneficiary, which is probably LG.

IMO, this was done not for " closure". There is NO closure for the loved ones of a missing person without a body, either breathing or long dead.

This was a financial settlement. LG's attorney also said that, if RFG returns, they will have to return the money.

The only option strongly argued against was witness protection, a point I've made several times over the years.
 
This morning, one day after being declared dead, Utah authorities are trying to ID a "John Doe" prisoner....who looks like Gricar!!! The man is the same height and approximate age and does resemble Gricar....AND he is refusing to give police his name after being arrested on misdemenor charges.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/07/could_this_be_ray_gricar.html
Interesting. See where it goes. He is also posted under DB Cooper at WS.

db cooper - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
This is sad for me and I'm not even family. I'm sure it was something that needed to be done. Glad it could be done before seven years. Oh how I dislike the work closure.

It is basically a financial move, so the estate can be settled. LE is still investigating.
 
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