PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[rlc]

There was a major drug case, but RFG was not prosecuting it. When he disappeared, the case was being handled by Michael Madeira, who eventually replaced him.

That case ended with a conviction, and the main defendant, Taji "Verbal" Lee, is still in jail.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. For some reason, I was under the impression he had been involved with the case up until a few weeks/month before his disappearance, so I thought he had brought Madeira up to speed first, then left.

ftr, it's not that I think he is the kind of guy who would intentionally disappear. It's just that I want a scenario where he is still alive and well.

 

[rlc]

were there any cold cases that RFG may have had a special interest in? Something that may have never made its way into his jurisdiction, or that he would not have wanted to discuss with anyone in the office, so that he would have taken a day off in order to meet with potential witnesses?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

were there any cold cases that RFG may have had a special interest in? Something that may have never made its way into his jurisdiction, or that he would not have wanted to discuss with anyone in the office, so that he would have taken a day off in order to meet with potential witnesses?

RFG spoke about the 1985 disappearance of Hinkley, OH police chief Mel Wiley. Wiley voluntarily vanished. RFG had left OH five years before Wiley vanished, and Hinkley was never in his jurisdiction there. The earliest RFG spoke about Wiley was 1992.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/22/2397093/wiley-and-gricar-the-timing.html

RFG encouraged Pam West to write a non-fiction book about the Aardsma murder at Penn State; she wrote a very good sci-fi novel, 20/20 Vision based loosely on the case.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/03/2396735/2020-hindsight.html

RFG read Wambaugh's book on the Susan Reinert in the late 1980's, but I don't know the level of interest

 

[rlc]

RFG spoke about the 1985 disappearance of Hinkley, OH police chief Mel Wiley. Wiley voluntarily vanished. RFG had left OH five years before Wiley vanished, and Hinkley was never in his jurisdiction there. The earliest RFG spoke about Wiley was 1992.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/22/2397093/wiley-and-gricar-the-timing.html

RFG encouraged Pam West to write a non-fiction book about the Aardsma murder at Penn State; she wrote a very good sci-fi novel, 20/20 Vision based loosely on the case.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/03/2396735/2020-hindsight.html

RFG read Wambaugh's book on the Susan Reinert in the late 1980's, but I don't know the level of interest

Am I remembering correctly that there was a sighting of RFG in Michigan, and that Betty A. was from Michigan?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Am I remembering correctly that there was a sighting of RFG in Michigan, and that Betty A. was from Michigan?

Relatively close (about 30-35 miles by air); she when to the University of Michigan there. Her actual home town was Holland, MI, about 150 miles from Southfield.

My understanding is that Ms. West approached RFG about the book, however. She was doing some research and wanted his help. The Aardsma case was under his jurisdiction the entire time he was DA, and I don't know of anything he did with it, or any specific interest.

It was an urban legend by the time he moved to Centre County. Aardsma was murdered in November 1969; RFG didn't move there until 1980.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW: Littlehorn is the real expert on Aardsma. You might want to ask him about the details of what was done on the case 1986-2005.

 

[rlc]

BTW: Littlehorn is the real expert on Aardsma. You might want to ask him about the details of what was done on the case 1986-2005.

Thanks, J.J. I am kind of curious about when CA stopped giving interviews. I am wondering if RFG had taken some interest/learned some new information in that case, and had gone to MI to interview her, then went missing, it may explain both why she stopped talking and did not mention meeting with him at that diner (if the sighting of him with an older woman was real, and the older woman was CA or some other member of the Aardsma family).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, J.J. I am kind of curious about when Carole Aardsma stopped giving interviews. I am wondering if RFG had taken some interest/learned some new information in that case, and had gone to MI to interview her, then went missing, it may explain both why she stopped talking and did not mention meeting with him at that diner (if the sighting of him with an older woman was real, and the older woman was Carole or some other member of the Aardsma family).

I think she stopped talking in the 1990's and that she might have been dead by 2005. Betsy had a sister, that I think lives in MI, but I think she is younger.

 

[rlc]

I think she stopped talking in the 1990's and that she might have been dead by 2005. Betsy had a sister, that I think lives in MI, but I think she is younger.

I thought CA was the sister? That she still lives in Michigan, and that as of 2008 and 2009, when asked, she said she no longer gives interviews?

Maybe I'm wrong. You're more knowledgeable on this topic than I am.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought CA was the sister? That she still lives in Michigan, and that as of 2008 and 2009, when asked, she said she no longer gives interviews?

Maybe I'm wrong. You're more knowledgeable on this topic than I am.

I know of a sister that was with a prison ministry, inspired in part by Betsy. I thought that was in MI, but I could be wrong. I also know it might have been a decade or more ago that I saw a reference to her.

The sister was younger and did speak to the press after at least one parent had died. I thought you were referring to the mother; both parent stopped granting interviews.

Really, I'd suggest you contact Littlehorn here: http://www.whokilledbetsy.org/pg1.html I have not studied the Aardsma case as much as he has.

If there was a relative in the area in 2005, I'd be somewhat interested.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The time of the Southfield, MI sighting argues a bit against it being related to the Aardsma case.

RFG's last known contact was 4/15/05. Southfield was 5/27/05, and several hundred miles away. RFG would have had to:

A. Somehow gotten to MI.

B. Been living incognito for 6 weeks, just to talk with someone about Aardsma.

C. Not told anyone what he was doing in regard to the case. Many people on staff were younger and not involved in the case.

 

[rlc]

You're right, J.J, that is not all that logical. I am going to check out littlehorn's site, though.

Edited to add: one other question regarding RFC. I remember reading that he was not convinced his brother committed suicide. He was sure the body was his brother's, though, right?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You're right, J.J, that is not all that logical. I am going to check out littlehorn's site, though.

Edited to add: one other question regarding RFC. I remember reading that he was not convinced his brother committed suicide. He was sure the body was his brother's, though, right?

Yes, the body was clearly identifiable. According to Roy's oldest son, RFG never raised those doubts with him. He did with a fellow DA, Ted McKnight.

In regard to RFG's mindset, you might want to read this blog: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/09/13/2397613/the-least-weak-evidence-for-suicide.html

I will readily concede that RFG could have been severely depressed, and not realized it. Sloane, a friend and coworker, indicated that RFG really was not the type to seek treatment even for physical problems.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Yes, the body was clearly identifiable. According to Roy's oldest son, RFG never raised those doubts with him. He did with a fellow DA, Ted McKnight.

In regard to RFG's mindset, you might want to read this blog: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/09/13/2397613/the-least-weak-evidence-for-suicide.html

I will readily concede that RFG could have been severely depressed, and not realized it. Sloane, a friend and coworker, indicated that RFG really was not the type to seek treatment even for physical problems.

JJ the blog article was well written!! I knew Ray never believed his brother committed suicide, it was a feeling I had. Later I seen it mentioned by PB of the centre daily times. Thanks to your article I know now where that came from. Finally its the district attorney of Clinton County who know about Ray's feelings on Roy's suicide. Thanks for the clarity.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ the blog article was well written!! I knew Ray never believed his brother committed suicide, it was a feeling I had. Later I seen it mentioned by PB of the centre daily times. Thanks to your article I know now where that came from. Finally its the district attorney of Clinton County who know about Ray's feelings on Roy's suicide. Thanks for the clarity.

I heard about it from Mr. Buehner, who heard about it from Mr. McKnight; it was from one the cable shows they did.

The point made there, that RFG might not seek help was a characteristic backed up by Mr. Sloane on Disappeared. SS said RFG wouldn't even take an aspirin.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BTW, that blog is part of a series called "The Least Weak Evidence... ." I've tried to the strongest cases I could for and against murder, walkaway, and suicide. Suicide is by far the weakest.

 

[rlc]

I wonder if RFG was the type to buy into conspiracy theories? I thought I read that his brother worked on an air force base that is the source of some conspiracy theory rumors. If he did not believe his brother committed suicide, maybe he started to take some of those rumors seriously, and that led him to either anger someone enough to harm him, or to believe his life was in danger so that he wanted to walk away from his life.

The more possibilities I consider, the more they all sound so farfetched, and the mystery becomes that much more baffling to me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder if RFG was the type to buy into conspiracy theories? I thought I read that his brother worked on an air force base that is the source of some conspiracy theory rumors. If he did not believe his brother committed suicide, maybe he started to take some of those rumors seriously, and that led him to either anger someone enough to harm him, or to believe his life was in danger so that he wanted to walk away from his life.

The more possibilities I consider, the more they all sound so farfetched, and the mystery becomes that much more baffling to me.

I've not heard of RFG being a conspiracy theorist, but it wouldn't be the strangest thing to come out Bellefonte. Roy Gricar, the brother, had retired prior to his suicide, so it wouldn't be something job related. RFG didn't comment to Roy's children about it either.

I've never heard of any suggestion that he was conspiracy-minded, and I've never of heard of a case he approached with a "grand conspiracy" type of theory.

There are some things in his background that could indicate he was interested in the clock and dagger, friends, college major. I've had people ask me if he could be a sleeper agent; I think the answer is no.

 

[cloudbuster05]

As per the son of Roy he mentioned that his dad was a private contractor working at WPatterson Air Force base. I don't recall what exactly Roy did though.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As per the son of Roy he mentioned that his dad was a private contractor working at WPatterson Air Force base. I don't recall what exactly Roy did though.

I've never heard what Roy's specific job was. He had retired and had a long battle with depression. I'm not sure if that is why he retired, but I think it was disability.