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Darkblue said:
" I understand the frustration of the gay community, but I am not sold on this being a gay-bashing, either.

Watching the video, he attempts to cross the street, right? The SUV drives by, and....he walks along the street in the direction of the vehicle. Is this correct or am I seeing things?

It looks to me like he was lured over in that direction. The reason, though, is another matter.

Are there cameras that actually captured the assault? That isn't clear.

Who made the 911 call?

I agree that this may have originated wherever he was socializing. He may have upset someone at the function he was attending. I think it was his sister's birthday, so I doubt there would have been too many people he didn't know well, but you never know."

I wish we could enhance the video with all the reflections and the pixellation it is tough to see what movements Chris is making. Since we have little to go on even with the video I am still interested in the black car that remains parked to the top left of the screen appear to have one person in the front seat - again not sure if I am imagining - is Chris looking at that car also is there someone watching behind that car.

I am not sure he is trying to cross the street. I am pretty sure the car didn't hit him and he didn't hit it. Where the car is parked: is that Ching Lane or a more major street?

Important to know they were in a bar the most likely thing now is there is some connection to that exact bar that exact evening. But what? It is a case where a reward of 100,000 or over might spring something loose - obviously the passengers know what happened and for whatever reason, no doubt fear, it is not worth it for them to come forward. Of course any amount of money may not work.

Yes who made the 911 what did they say?

As I understand it the attack is unrecorded.

One question I have is how Chris ended up in front of the vehicle. I mean exactly how.

Three things I can think of 1. by far the best of course would be if someone in the car or by now someone any of them talked to would come forward. It seems like a case where they would have a good chance of getting second degree murder and maybe something less if they could argue they did not know he was still on the street etc. Just saying there are lots of reasons to come forward and the other people in the car or a confidante MAY BE BE DOING THE PERPETRATORS A FAVOUR by persuading them to turn themselves in or turning them in. There is a big difference between first degree murder and all other charges. Of course if the passengers know there was full intent that would be different - and they should still do the right thing. 2. as someone suggested is there really no other footage of the vehicle that would supply the license number. Not to be critical but did they really gather film evidence in the area promptly and effectively? What is still possible in that regard? 3. this would be back to the family and friends if they can think of anything else. Even someone they have the slightest suspicion of but they don't feel right bringing it forward since they face social obloquy from friends or family for even suggesting it etc. 4. and I guess for if there were other gay bashing incidents that anyone in that community finds familiar even if it was something not this drastic - just something that fits.

Do we know what bar they were in? I mean that would really help someone might remember something.

I am not sure what else we can see in the video that will help though I am trying. Poor Chris he looks like such a lovely guy feel terrible for him and his friends and family.
Click to expand...
 
Darkblue said:
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/19/to-rapper-charged-in-4-murders

I wonder if police looked at this guy in the Ellis/Martin investigation.

Apparently very violent, shooting left and right at anything, according to charges against him.

He was arrested after a shooting at a Richmond Street nightclub, so he did frequent that area of the city, to some degree.

The Toronto Sun article also suggests that he may be tied to other unsolved murders.
Click to expand...

In the news today.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...urders_now_charged_in_courthouse_assault.html

"A Toronto man awaiting trial on four charges of murder now faces an additional charge of aggravated assault for allegedly attacking a fellow inmate after the two were mistakenly locked in a cell together at a downtown courthouse.

Moore made a brief court appearance Friday at Old City Hall.

In contrast to the heavy-set, jewelry-wearing figure who appears in YouTube rap videos, Moore looked like a casually dressed businessman in a black suit jacket and wire-rim glasses"
 
2 and as many as 4 men latter would take away our theory impressing gals in he back seat.

not sure where they got this hand touching car thing jeesh
 
I have finally completed another collection of five murders. It will be one of the last. To the best of my knowledge these cases are unsolved, but if anyone knows otherwise, please advise.

[FONT=&quot]●29-year-old Antonio Garito, of Margueretta St., died of head wounds after a fight with several men on Saturday, June 28th, 1986. The fight, which was witnessed by two women, occurred in a laneway behind Noble St. Afterwards, Garito was driven to and dumped in a parkette on St. Clarens Ave., north of Bloor St. by a person believed to be named Pat.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Garito stumbled south towards his home. When he arrived home, he complained to his family of shortness of breath and then lost consciousness. He was taken to hospital where he died.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No further information.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]●On Friday, March 26th, 1976, the body of 54-year-old Raymond Pius Harte was found in the basement of the run-down house on Ontario St. where Harte had been squatting. He had been dead for about 10 days.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is believed Harte, an alcoholic vagrant, was clubbed to death by drinking buddies after he was given money to buy booze and returned empty-handed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No further details or updates were found.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]●At midnight on Thursday, December 22nd, 1988, Nick Gournis, 50, was found by two passersby at Galactic Amusements Arcade, an establishment he owned at 1058 Kingston Rd. He had been beaten about the head with a baseball bat, which was found at the scene. He died in hospital hours later. Police found that the arcade had been robbed by Gournis’s killer, and that the crime had occurred between 10 p.m. and the time he was found. He was last seen alive at 9:15.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gournis, a father of two girls, lived on Raquel Ct. in west Toronto.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No further pertinent information.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Victim:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Gournis_zps43d70d8f.png
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Crime scene, 1058 Kingston Rd:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Gournis2_zpse8adb376.png
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]●Ernest Earl Keith, 55, was found beaten to death with a whiskey bottle outside his room on the second floor of the Winchester Hotel at 531 Parliament St. early on the morning of Tuesday, July 20th, 1976. He had died of multiple skull fractures.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Keith, a brewery worker, had resided at the hotel for five years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No additional information was found regarding the disposition of this case.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]●Kevin Lionel McBride, 47, was found stabbed to death in his apartment at Sheppard Ave. E. and Markham Rd. on Monday, May 17th, 1982. He had been dead for a couple of days.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]McBride’s car and credit card had been stolen. Police believed his killer was invited into McBride’s apartment on Saturday night after answering McBride's ad for a roommate.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The victim’s credit card was used in Windsor, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan, and police were able to create a composite sketch (below) based on witness descriptions. He was described as white, 6’2”, in his mid-20s to early-30s, with wavy dark brown hair swept back from his forehead. He was in the company of another man.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]On September 22nd, McBride’s car was found in Rochester, Minnesota. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]McBride was an interior decorator and antique dealer who had moved to Canada from Australia 17 years earlier.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No further information.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Victim:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
McBride_zpsfad60b2f.jpg
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Composite of suspect:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
McBride2_zps3250282b.jpg
[/FONT]
 
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2011/02/26/17421486.html

I wonder if these guys (suspects in McBride killing) had anything to do with the murder of Christine Prince, which happened a month after McBride was killed.

The scene of his homicide and that of Prince in the Rouge Valley are only a few kilometers apart from one another. And only a month separates them.

While the motives are clearly different (one a robbery of a male, the other a sex slaying of a female); they are both very brutal homicides that have gone unsolved with what seems to be no progress or leads decades later.

So, they have in common the proximity to one another. This suggests that these men may have spent some time in east end Toronto (Scarborough) and got to know the area. They could have committed the abduction of Prince in the west end of the city, returning to an area they were more familiar with.

Also, police think that Prince was likely abducted by two men. The McBride case indicates someone else, along with the suspect depicted in the sketch. Prince had also been robbed, I believe, as well as sexually assaulted.

There doesn't seem to be an indication of when McBride's vehicle was taken over the border, so it is possible that the suspects lingered in the area for a month or longer before disappearing.

Both very sad cases, and ones that would likely have been solved if they happened today, with all the technology available, IMHO.
 
Thanks for the correction, Darkblue. It's too late for me to revise the post, since the edit function here disappears, which I find extremely aggravating.:banghead:
Good idea comparing the McBride killing to Prince. I strongly suspect the Prince case involves at least two perpetrators. Different victim profiles and M.O.s, but it's possible they're connected.
 
Darkblue said:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2011/02/26/17421486.html

I wonder if these guys (suspects in McBride killing) had anything to do with the murder of Christine Prince, which happened a month after McBride was killed.

The scene of his homicide and that of Prince in the Rouge Valley are only a few kilometers apart from one another. And only a month separates them.

While the motives are clearly different (one a robbery of a male, the other a sex slaying of a female); they are both very brutal homicides that have gone unsolved with what seems to be no progress or leads decades later.

So, they have in common the proximity to one another. This suggests that these men may have spent some time in east end Toronto (Scarborough) and got to know the area. They could have committed the abduction of Prince in the west end of the city, returning to an area they were more familiar with.

Also, police think that Prince was likely abducted by two men. The McBride case indicates someone else, along with the suspect depicted in the sketch. Prince had also been robbed, I believe, as well as sexually assaulted.

There doesn't seem to be an indication of when McBride's vehicle was taken over the border, so it is possible that the suspects lingered in the area for a month or longer before disappearing.

Both very sad cases, and ones that would likely have been solved if they happened today, with all the technology available, IMHO.
Click to expand...

From link, "Did anyone receive an unexpected gift of a ring, a watch or a Kodak Instamatic camera?"

Would a camera be a common thing for a thief to take, or could C. Prince have taken pictures of her assailants earlier in the day or week?
Maybe the camera might still be around somewhere?
 
dotr said:
From link, "Did anyone receive an unexpected gift of a ring, a watch or a Kodak Instamatic camera?"

Would a camera be a common thing for a thief to take, or could C. Prince have taken pictures of her assailants earlier in the day or week?
Maybe the camera might still be around somewhere?
Click to expand...

Awesome thinking, dotr.

I have wondered if the abduction of Prince was planned i.e. hanging out on the street she lived on and waiting for a chance to abduct her.

The reason I was connecting this to McBride is that I am sure there is a cross-section of criminal tendencies with sex offenders. Even though the cowardly aspect of a sex offence is there, it does not necessarily mean that such an offender (attacking women) may not be aggressive toward males in other circumstances.

Also, I have thought that the area Prince ended up was more pertinent to the case than where she was abducted from. The offenders for whatever reason were in the west end of Toronto, but went to an area that is accessible off the highway and still within city limits, but remote wilderness. I have a feeling they had some knowledge of the area.

To that end, I have thought that these individuals who went after McBride were hanging around east end Toronto. They obviously took the time to either find him in a newspaper listing (he was looking for a roommate), or they had run into him somewhere and had tracked him down to his apartment.

If they were in Toronto's east end, they may have gotten familiar with the surroundings, perhaps then committing crimes.

However, the way I read it, these guys disappeared within a couple of days of killing McBride. I guess it does not rule out them returning to Toronto, though.

Weird case, the McBride homicide. Not too much detail in the papers about it. You would think they would develop the story a little more. Under what circumstances did witnesses see the man, in order to give a reasonable composite? What stores did the killer visit, using the credit card? The other suspect was a "good looking Hungarian freelance photographer". How did someone arrive at that? JMHO.
 
It seems like many of the murders in the early 80's, occurred after the victims spent time near Yonge and Bloor imo. Could they all have been targeted by someone who worked or lived nearby, or hung around the area?
Could the killer of Susan T and Erin G. also be responsible for Christine P, K. McBride and others?
One profiler, L.Mellor mentioned that the doors were left open in both S Tice and E G homes after the murders, suggesting the perp. was irresponsible - but I wonder if there was a cultural/ religious reason for it ie. let the soul escape ect. or a practical reason like not wanting an odour where perp or family member may work, or hands/gloves are cut/ ripped and cannot grasp door handle.
http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.c...killed-toronto-women.html?zx=e7689c57748614e5
 
Wondering why in C Prince's murder, her umbrella was dropped but not her purse in whatever struggle may have occurred outside where she lived.
Does that mean the initial motive was robbery? If there were two perps why would they have to bind her hands ?
 
From what I've seen of most women, they instinctively hold their purses close, and clutch them in order not to lose them due to robbery or misplacing them.

This would probably be heightened on a dark street, and she would likely grip the purse during the abduction, again almost instinctively.

Also, if she had the purse on a long strap, it may have gotten twisted around her.

Of course, if the purse were something the suspects were after, along with her, one may have stooped and picked it up on his way back into the vehicle.

An umbrella would not have had much value. In fact, if she tried using it to hit the suspects, one of them may have grabbed it and thrown it away in anger.
 
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/n...it-killer-says/article4162061/?service=mobile
Bbm.
Oct 29 2012

"Mr. McGray was born in Collingwood, Ont., but his family moved to Yarmouth, N.S., when he still a child. He was the second youngest of six siblings, the son of a welder.

When he was a teenager, he says he was put in a group home where he suffered physical and sexual abuse. By 16, he was on his own -- by his own description, a pot-smoking, boozing teenager consumed with rage and a dislike for people, and already fascinated by serial killers.

He began the first of his varied run-ins with the law. And in 1985 -- though he only recalls the date approximately -- he says that he and a friend, driving a truck on an empty road in Nova Scotia, came across Ms. Tucker thumbing a ride to a new job at the Digby fish plant. Even before his statement yesterday, Halifax police were investigating his role in her death.

"I liked it," he said. "I liked it a lot."

Mr. McGray said he is not sure where his "urge" comes from, or how it started, he only knows that he cannot control it. Since his first killing, he estimated that he has killed at least once a year, but sometimes twice. The killings, he said, were never sexually motivated, and he often stalked his victims beforehand.

Though he was vague on a time line, he said he knows the cities where he has killed. On request, he matter-of-factly listed them off: the two prostitutes in Vancouver, a pair in Seattle, Joan Hicks, of course, in Moncton. Beyond the two murder charges in Montreal, he claimed to have killed another gay man in the city about four years earlier. "It was just unbelievable how easy they tried to take you home, a total stranger."

In Toronto, in addition to the body in High Park -- a lonely addict on welfare he lured there in the summer of 1997, he said -- he claims to have killed several homeless people. "I always kept going to Toronto," he said. "I went from city to city."
 
Reading Hoshowsky on Tice Gilmour a couple of not very important things - she is buried in Leith ON (I had asked why) because it was her home town and that is where she had just come back from up north before she was killed. Note: In the Wendy Tedford Donna Stearne one of them I believe the latter had family or came from the same area a different small town outside of Owen Sound.

Erin: had two young brothers over for a sleepover night before. Realize the boyfriend is not a suspect but strange they say he was late because he had to stop at a cash machine - how late could that make you? Hoshowsky maybe quoting LE says social circle was high class implying no possible suspects there had to be a low-life. Absurd idea of course. Had moved not long before from Oriole Parkway.

According to Hoshowsky they found the guy who had made obscene phone calls to Erin determined he was not involved I am sure by now they would have checked his DNA.
 
June 10 2009

"It was a warm spring night when the men were killed and authorities say there were several people milling about the Queen West neighbourhood when the murder took place.

No one has come forward with information.

The detective said something must have happened between the time the men got into their car and when they returned to Niagara Street a few minutes later.

"No one in the world knew they were returning the keys," Giroux said.

"It might have been a hugely insignificant event but it was important enough to the offender," he said. "(An event that is) not important in the minds of his family or the girlfriend in the backseat but significant enough to the offender for him to pull out a firearm in a public place and start shooting."

The detective said he's confident there are people in the neighbourhood who saw something but are hesitant to come forward because of their own personal reasons.

Early in the investigation, police believed they were looking for a suspect described as a young black man on a bicycle. On Tuesday, Giroux said investigators are no longer certain how that person fits into the story's narrative"

bbm.

Read more: http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-still-need-motive-in-ellis-martin-murders-1.406651#ixzz2WDYxtbxT
 
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