‘Mother hen’ to media villain: The life of Debbie Bradley - Kansas City Star 11/5/11

[AngelWings444]

But yet everyone is making judgements on DB based on what they think she is or is not doing? Nobody was there when LE told her these facts, nobody is with them NOW to know how they are dealing with this day in and day out.

I'm not making "judgements" on DB. My opinion is not a judgement. We only know what she and her attorney's have spewed to the media.

WE are entitled to our opinions here, based on what we see and hear. Personally, I'm not basing an opinion on what I don't see or hear, other than the fact DB and JI are not BEGGING for their daughter to be returned. That is just "unusual" in a "kidnapping" case. JMO

 

[mysteriew]

The first time LE was at the house with the dog, DB & JI gave verbal consent on what rooms they could search. The master bedroom was off limits! This info was on WS early on and I do not know how to track past info like our long time sleuthers.

You may be right, at least as far as the parents giving consent for the early searches. As a matter of fact I think I read that. And they would have had the right to limit the search area. Whether the parents allowed dogs throughout the home or whether they limited it or not I don't think we know. I do know that dogs were in and out of the home early on.

She has been on media and whined about her treatment by LE, but never once has she even mentioned any fear that the alleged intruder stood in her room and watched her while she slept.

 

[mysteriew]

That's great but does anyone know if DB did what you are describing when LE told her this? I'm getting the impression people don't and I don't know how you would know otherwise.

She hasn't been in for an interview since Oct. 8. And the interviews before that time were restricted.

 

[loveandhugs]

A police officer called you a "f*cking *****head" during a criminal interview? Was it taped? I would think that would be grounds for a reprimand. Police officers are humans too and I'm sure there are occasions when their tempers get the best of them. But now days most everything they do is taped. Even the patrol officers cars are monitored as to speed. So I find it hard to believe any officer/detective called DB white trash when she was being questioned. In fact unless I see a tape of it, I will never believe she was called that.

ITA, I am a LE family, I know how much these cases mean to the LE community. Most of the time it is a thankless job. Many LE have lost their lives trying to protect and serve. You are correct, interviews are taped, and most patrol cars now have videos on the dashboards. Yes there are members of the LE community that should not be in the profession, but it is a very small percentage. In all professions and walks of life there are people that do not represent the majority.

Like you, unless I see a tape of LE calling DB "White****h", I will not consider it a fact. Most people (not all), that commit a crime will lie, tell stories, blame other people, blame LE, refuse to talk, etc. etc. etc., they usually do not raise their hands and say "I am guilty". It is up to LE to try to see through the facts and lies without cooperation of the criminal.

KCLE wants to find out what happened to Lisa, the last people that saw her are the only ones that can answer the questions of what happened in the final hours of her disappearing, but DB and JI want to take the focus off the fact that they are not cooperating by saying that LE called them names and yelled at them. They want to make LE look bad, so then they can look like victims. Unfortunately the one and only victim in all of this is LISA, and that is suppose to be a parents one and only concern.

 

[AngelWings444]

ITA, I am a LE family, I know how much these cases mean to the LE community. Most of the time it is a thankless job. Many LE have lost their lives trying to protect and serve. You are correct, interviews are taped, and most patrol cars now have videos on the dashboards. Yes there are members of the LE community that should not be in the profession, but it is a very small percentage. In all professions and walks of life there are people that do not represent the majority.

Like you, unless I see a tape of LE calling DB "White****h", I will not consider it a fact. Most people (not all), that commit a crime will lie, tell stories, blame other people, blame LE, refuse to talk, etc. etc. etc., they usually do not raise their hands and say "I am guilty". It is up to LE to try to see through the facts and lies without cooperation of the criminal.

KCLE wants to find out what happened to Lisa, the last people that saw her are the only ones that can answer the questions of what happened in the final hours of her disappearing, but DB and JI want to take the focus off the fact that they are not cooperating by saying that LE called them names and yelled at them. They want to make LE look bad, so then they can look like victims. Unfortunately the one and only victim in all of this is LISA, and that is suppose to be a parents one and only concern.

Thank you! Great post.

 

[Whisperer]

When I read this thread and saw "Mother Hen" I was aghast. Casey A. was described like that..

 

[mysteriew]

They can actually do that, dictate where a dog can search and not search? I've never heard of that before. Even so, once they got the hit, couldn't they just search again with the warrant?

The only way an LE can even enter your home is with your permission. As such you can give them blanket permission for access or you can limit where you will allow them. If they wish to see more and feel there is evidence of probably cause that a crime was committed there they can get a search warrant and do it without your permission.

 

[nursebeeme]

The Kansas City Star article of 11/5/11.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/0...n-to-media-villain.html#.TrYDcX3KlkE.facebook

There is discussion about it on at least 2 threads (MSM Coverage 11/5/11 and 11/6/11), so it probably needs its own thread.

David Netz, Jr., Lisa's maternal grandfather, and Hazel Bradley, Deborah's mother-in-law, are interviewed.

ETA: Deborah's uncle, Johnny Chivalette III, is also interviewed.

ETA2: Article also being discussed on "Mother preparing to be arrested" thread (FYI to the mods)

bumping up the opening post:seeya:

 

[cityslick]

She hasn't been in for an interview since Oct. 8. And the interviews before that time were restricted.

The early interviews were restricted? That's news to me.

 

[cityslick]

The only way an LE can even enter your home is with your permission. As such you can give them blanket permission for access or you can limit where you will allow them. If they wish to see more and feel there is evidence of probably cause that a crime was committed there they can get a search warrant and do it without your permission.

I would think once they got the 'hit' it would give them all access via the search warrant.

 

[nursebeeme]

peeps... this thread is concerning the mother hen article... if you want to discuss the search warrant or the lawyers or the dog hits or home searches etc etc etc there are threads for all of these topics.

 

[cowtowner]

I'm not making "judgements" on DB. My opinion is not a judgement. We only know what she and her attorney's have spewed to the media.

WE are entitled to our opinions here, based on what we see and hear. Personally, I'm not basing an opinion on what I don't see or hear, other than the fact DB and JI are not BEGGING for their daughter to be returned. That is just "unusual" in a "kidnapping" case. JMO

How many times do they have to beg for their daughter to be returned to stipulate that JI and DB have, in fact, begged for their daughter's safe return?

 

[cowtowner]

ITA, I am a LE family, I know how much these cases mean to the LE community. Most of the time it is a thankless job. Many LE have lost their lives trying to protect and serve. You are correct, interviews are taped, and most patrol cars now have videos on the dashboards. Yes there are members of the LE community that should not be in the profession, but it is a very small percentage. In all professions and walks of life there are people that do not represent the majority.

Like you, unless I see a tape of LE calling DB "White****h", I will not consider it a fact. Most people (not all), that commit a crime will lie, tell stories, blame other people, blame LE, refuse to talk, etc. etc. etc., they usually do not raise their hands and say "I am guilty". It is up to LE to try to see through the facts and lies without cooperation of the criminal.

KCLE wants to find out what happened to Lisa, the last people that saw her are the only ones that can answer the questions of what happened in the final hours of her disappearing, but DB and JI want to take the focus off the fact that they are not cooperating by saying that LE called them names and yelled at them. They want to make LE look bad, so then they can look like victims. Unfortunately the one and only victim in all of this is LISA, and that is suppose to be a parents one and only concern.

I too am from an LE family and I agree with a lot of what you said. There is every reason to believe that KCPD wants to find Lisa, and those who are involved. And, to be fair, the reason these defense strategies of deflecting blame onto LE work is because they are based in real life.

Let's acknowledge that these members of the LE community that you righty say should not be in the profession have been responsible for too many people who have lost their lives and/or rotted away in prison for crimes they were accused and convicted of yet did not commit. This includes kidnapping, murder (WM3 anyone?), sex crimes against children (a man in the KC area (not KC proper) was recently awarded a multi-million-dollar award because he was wrongly convicted of a sex crime against minors).

Is this the norm? Absolutely not.

Are these terribly devastating consequences perpetrated by the very members of LE you appropriately say should not be in the profession? Yes.


The fact is these VERY VERY few cases of poor LE judgment can and do wreak devastating consequences for those wrongly accused, the department and the community.

Considering my family LE member trained investigators, in part, on how to avoid the investigative tunnel vision - I have to acknowledge that it does exist. I personally don't easily dismiss that.

 

[stilettos]

How many times do they have to beg for their daughter to be returned to stipulate that JI and DB have, in fact, begged for their daughter's safe return?

One would think that you would beg and continue begging until your child is returned to you or you find out what happened to her. I know a mother who searched for her parentally abducted child for 7 years until she found her. She begged God, the police, the judge and anyone else who could help her until her baby was returned to her. JMO

 

[Donjeta]

I read this yesterday and dismissed it as a typical grandparent/parent article. Scared, disbeliving their child could do something bad like this, being supportive to their child.

But evidently the article made more of an impression than I thought, at least peripherally because I am still thinking of it.

Points I have been thinking of.

He gave his interview to local media, not national media. A sign of dissension within the family? Immediate family has been refusing to talk to local media since soon after Lisa went missing. When Short scheduled interviews with local media she got fired. Now when he decides to give an interview it is with the locals. Is that a sign that he disagrees with the local media ban?

He indicates most family is saying "trust nobody" but he seems to think that is making things worse. So he is going public, and with the locals.

He shows an awareness of what is being said about the parents. So they aren't just playing video games in the house, they are actually following the public perceptions of the case. I have wondered about that.

He mentioned all the family's problems over the years, even discusses alcoholism, yet stops short of any comments about DB's drinking. BTW was he talking about DB's mom having alcoholism or does he? He doesn't mention if he believes she inherited anything related to the alcoholism. Was he trying introduce mitigating factors here?

To me, the incident with the dog doesn't even make sense. It doesn't give any indication of what DB would do if an accident would happen to her daughter. Only what happened when someone else brought her a living child that had been involved in an accident that she had no involvement with.

As a father and a grandfather I think he sounds like a very nice man. A man who loves he daughter and a man who loved his granddaughter. A man who fears for both. But the way he talks about DB's early family life, besides mitigating factors he almost lays out how it could have happened. A girl who grew up in a dysfunctional family, who had an alcoholic mother. A "Daddy's girl" who fought with her father when she had to live with him. Could she be an alcoholoic herself, who did love her children but who didn't have early responsibile parental role models to help guide her decisions with her own children?

Another interesting note on the mother in law. She obviously cares a lot for DB. And she speaks highly of her as a mother and as a person. But considering that this woman she loves as a person left her home and never kept in contact, never offered to allow her to spend time with her grandson it just sounds like there is something missing there.

Great post. Hazel is SB's stepmother so DB's and SB's son is not biologically related to her. Maybe it's a factor. But frankly it sounds to me like DB wore out her welcome with the strange stuff. She was asked to leave.

Debbie talked of getting her G.E.D. and insisted that her youngest brother, Phillip, graduate. But she didn’t go back to school. Instead, she started leaving the house at night, taking Hazel’s truck without asking when the family slept.

“I never knew for sure where she went or what she did,” Hazel said. They had words. Debbie was again asked to leave.

“It’s just immature things,” she says. “I kept thinking she would settle down.”

Another part of the article says she "tried again to live with the Delaware relatives" but I gather it wasn't so successful an attempt. Apparently there has been a lot of tension between DB's maternal and paternal relatives so maybe it is why, IDK. Interesting, that's all.

It seems she's had almost a nomadic existence, she's lived in so many places and with so many people. Has she ever lived alone? I think people can learn a lot living alone and taking care of all their needs instead of finding someone to host themselves. This brief interlude sounds like the only period she might have lived alone but the article is not explicit about it and she might have had a boyfriend or a room mate I guess.

Debbie took her son back to her father’s house in east Independence, where her brother Tony still lives, too. She soon moved into Hawthorne Place apartments not far away and began working at Payless ShoeSource, according to Hazel.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/05/3250061/from-mother-hen-to-media-villain.html#ixzz1d95ip6Hr

Regarding the father talking to a local news outlet, I wonder if he was there when Gil Abeyta spoke about the importance of local media or has read what GA has said on the internet? Another thing I wondered was, was it a lawyer approved move (to get some family perspective in the local news) and did they advise him what to say? It might be the attorneys wouldn't have wanted all this to come out.

Bringing up the dog incident is absurd IMO. So if someone takes an injured child to the ER, it proves that they must be innocent when something else happens later. (Everyone planning a murder, take note, here's how you clear yourselves, take a kid to the ER now, then you're settled because a potential future child killer has never taken anybody to the ER in their lives.) What does he think that a potential future child killer would do in such a situation? :waitasec: Right, they would probably take the boy to the ER.

 

[justamommy]

The only way an LE can even enter your home is with your permission. As such you can give them blanket permission for access or you can limit where you will allow them. If they wish to see more and feel there is evidence of probably cause that a crime was committed there they can get a search warrant and do it without your permission.

Just bouncing off this post guys. Please don't beat me...

I have questions regarding the searches. I haven't read alot about them. Here goes.... if DB/JI gave permission for the searches, but said no access to master bedroom; how did the dog hit there in the first place? My other question is... why would they say no to initial searches of master bedroom only to later give permission, hence the cadaver dog hit? I understood that the way the warrant was obtained was in part because of the dog hit.

 

[Desdemona]

<respectfully snipped>
IMO, they need to man up and demand LE eliminate them as suspects. If they are innocent, they will want to pass LDT's and tell the LE they can tell the media they passed. This would move the case forward.

Yes, precisely. It would move the case forward. And tellingly, this is exactly what poor little Lisa's parents are NOT doing.

I don't recall which TV appearance it was... but I remember during one interview, after giving her story of having failed LE's LDT, and emphatically claiming that was "impossible," because she did not know where Lisa "was at," DB was pointedly asked whether or not she would be willing to undergo another LDT.

Her reply, after a brief pause to consider, was: "Sure. Why not?"

:waitasec: Huh?

IMO, as pointed out by Whisperer, if she were innocent in Lisa's disappearance, DB would have been DEMANDING to take another LDT, IMMEDIATELY, in order to prove her 'innocence' and get LE to stop wasting precious time and resources barking up the 'wrong' tree... A terror-stricken and innocent mother, in fear for the safety and well-being of her endangered child, would want to clear her name as quickly as possible, so that her beloved baby could be found right away, with no further delay.

Under the circumstances, "Sure, why not?" speaks volumes. As does fomenting antagonism in the media against LE (whose job it is to find out the truth about her precious missing child), and setting conditions for LE questioning. Doesn't look good for Baby Lisa IMO.

 

[menmo]

How many times do they have to beg for their daughter to be returned to stipulate that JI and DB have, in fact, begged for their daughter's safe return?

A gazillion if that is what it takes until Baby Lisa is found! MOO

 

[vlpate]

LE doesn't need to address every accusation made by the defense attorney. Defense attorneys make a lot of accusations and spin stories to make LE the bad guys (some more than others) when things don't look good for their clients. They want to create doubt and it appears to be working.Where's THEIR proof?
The defense attorneys want the public to take sides against LE. With nothing to back up their accusations they want the public to make the parents ,who aren't behaving like a family desperate to get their baby back,victims of LE.

What is LE supposed to do when the only witnesses won't talk? Where do they go from here?

And as a final thought to ponder ,wasn't Joe T. the lawyer / spokesman advocating for Joran Van Der Sloot? :waitasec: Great job there. JVS went on to brutally kill again. :furious:

BEM: Not to go OT, but since you brought it up....JT now makes excuses for Vandersloot, saying he went off the deep end after years of being falsely accused of killing Natalie Hollaway.

Now he's doing what his job is to do, make excuses for his client, even when they are absurd and have no basis in reality or validity.

Edited to reiterate this post has to do with the mother hen article in that it speaks to cooperation and lawyer's statements concerning their cooperation and LE demands.

 

[Sparklin]

The first time LE was at the house with the dog, DB & JI gave verbal consent on what rooms they could search. The master bedroom was off limits! This info was on WS early on and I do not know how to track past info like our long time sleuthers.

bbm= WHAT? They said that was how they got the warrant, from a 'hit' on the bedroom floor? I'm so confused!!!