‘Take Care of Maya’ - Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins Trial

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Can someone confirm my recollection that the hospital billed under the codes for the exact condition that they said Maya doesn't have?

To me that is the whole crux of the issue just from a common sense perspective.
 
oceanverde said:
Can someone confirm my recollection that the hospital billed under the codes for the exact condition that they said Maya doesn't have?

To me that is the whole crux of the issue just from a common sense perspective.
Click to expand...

This is a little complicated, IMO. You are allowed to bill for a working diagnosis or a diagnosis the patient got from someone else until you exclude said diagnosis. I haven't kept up with all the nitty gritty details of this case, but from what I understand, they billed for CRPS while doing the workup and investigation?

Where the hospital gets in trouble is if they charted that she didn't have CRPS and put her diagnosis down as something not pain related, yet they billed for CRPS. The diagnosis should match the billing. They can also bill for complex pain (less specific) without billing for CRPS.

I'm not clear on what the billing/diagnosis pattern was in this case, except that the hospital billed at least some of the encounters for CRPS.

If it's true that Beata was giving Maya Valium (especially as a "reward" which I dont' get), that isn't just a red flag. That's a hair-on-fire flag.

I think the hospital did a lot wrong in this case, but the more we hear, the more clear it becomes to me how everything unfolded.
 
oceanverde said:
Can someone confirm my recollection that the hospital billed under the codes for the exact condition that they said Maya doesn't have?

To me that is the whole crux of the issue just from a common sense perspective.
Click to expand...


It’s also interesting that many of the witnesses have claimed Maya didn’t have asthma, yet there were multiple charges for respiratory treatments/ care on the documents that were shown in court.
So which is it- was Beata exaggerating and Maya did not have asthma, which means there was some questionable billing going on, OR:
Maya had asthma and was appropriately treated at the hospital.

I feel like the defense is trying to have it both ways. Hopefully, the jury will be able to pick up on these discrepancies __ that’s just one example.
 
IDK said:
It’s also interesting that many of the witnesses have claimed Maya didn’t have asthma, yet there were multiple charges for respiratory treatments/ care on the documents that were shown in court.
So which is it- was Beata exaggerating and Maya did not have asthma, which means there was some questionable billing going on, OR:
Maya had asthma and was appropriately treated at the hospital.

I feel like the defense is trying to have it both ways. Hopefully, the jury will be able to pick up on these discrepancies __ that’s just one example.
Click to expand...

Actually, respiratory treatments are given all the time and not just for asthma. If Maya needed respiratory treatments, it likely would have heightened the hospital's suspicions that her mother gave her ketamine or Valium as both can cause respiratory problems. Trouble breathing can also be a complication of CRPS.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
Actually, respiratory treatments are given all the time and not just for asthma. If Maya needed respiratory treatments, it likely would have heightened the hospital's suspicions that her mother gave her ketamine or Valium as both can cause respiratory problems. Trouble breathing can also be a complication of CRPS.
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Thanks for your reply. From what I could see from the notes the other day, the respiratory treatments were billed throughout her stay, not just while she was in the PICU. Initially, JHACH had Maya on propofol, precedex and ketamine, so Maya would have needed treatments then. However, wouldn’t any possible respiratory effects have worn off 2-3 months into her stay at JHACH?

Also, as far as I know, there has been no evidence submitted that Maya was ever given Valium at home. One ICU nurse testified they heard Beata offering Maya Valium, but was this ever clarified? Was there an order for Maya to have Valium at the hospital? I’ve tried to keep up with the trial, but still have so many questions.
 
IDK said:
Thanks for your reply. From what I could see from the notes the other day, the respiratory treatments were billed throughout her stay, not just while she was in the PICU. Initially, JHACH had Maya on propofol, precedex and ketamine, so Maya would have needed treatments then. However, wouldn’t any possible respiratory effects have worn off 2-3 months into her stay at JHACH?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It depends on the cause of the breathing problems. There are many causes of breathing issues and patients sometimes require respiratory treatments throughout their stay.

If Maya actually did need respiratory treatments (and this can be proven by documented vitals), I wouldn't be surprised if that made the hospital even more suspicious that someone was giving her something not ordered by the doctors treating her.

IDK said:
Also, as far as I know, there has been no evidence submitted that Maya was ever given Valium at home. One ICU nurse testified they heard Beata offering Maya Valium, but was this ever clarified? Was there an order for Maya to have Valium at the hospital? I’ve tried to keep up with the trial, but still have so many questions.
Click to expand...

Well, the nurse was under oath. Could she have been wrong? Maybe. But if she really did overhear that, it would raise many red flags. Sometimes, well-intentioned family members do bring in treatments doctors didn't order if they disagree with how their loved one is being treated. Or they campaign relentlessly for the treatment they think the loved one needs, as people have said Beata did re: Ketamine.

MOO
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
Not necessarily. It depends on the cause of the breathing problems. There are many causes of breathing issues and patients sometimes require respiratory treatments throughout their stay.

If Maya actually did need respiratory treatments (and this can be proven by documented vitals), I wouldn't be surprised if that made the hospital even more suspicious that someone was giving her something not ordered by the doctors treating her.



Well, the nurse was under oath. Could she have been wrong? Maybe. But if she really did overhear that, it would raise many red flags. Sometimes, well-intentioned family members do bring in treatments doctors didn't order if they disagree with how their loved one is being treated. Or they campaign relentlessly for the treatment they think the loved one needs, as people have said Beata did re: Ketamine.

MOO
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Yes, I’m not sure what to make of the nurse. She’s obviously very experienced and knowledgeable. IMO only, there are some ICU nurses who are excellent with technology, medications and procedures, but maybe not quite as psychosocially aware? IDK.
It’s a children’s hospital so hopefully the staff would be well educated about dealing with all different kinds of parents and patients.

Honestly, it has rubbed me the wrong way how each staff member has brought up about Maya cursing. She was a 9 year old child in extreme distress and pain, no matter what the cause. Who knows where she picked it up, but kids are exposed to bad language all the time, even on the playground. The judgmental attitudes don’t help their case, IMO, but maybe the jurors will be as offended by the cursing as the staff was.

It will be very interesting how this all plays out with the jury.
 
I find this judge very biased and it's infuriating. It's like the defense are prohibited from actually putting up a defense!

I'm pretty set in stone on my opinion now, I believe that the hospital had every right to bring in CPS and they had every right to safeguard the child in those circumstances. I know that the trial is to do with the treatment Maya experienced at the hospital, but the circumstances of safeguarding play a huge part in that so I'm baffled as to why the judge is refusing so much to do with the MBP. I'm also struggling to believe anything from Maya herself, she was a child so I want to be careful and remember that, but she's almost 18 now and IMO the inconsistencies are still dripping from her. Whether that's a result of her mother's MBP, the obvious and horrendous amount of substances pumped into her, or that she has factious disorder herself... Whichever way, I just don't believe her :/

Imagine this hospital hadn't intervined and it ended up another case like The Blanchards or many others, people would be spitting blood asking how the medical professionals could let this happen!

Honestly I just can't buy into anything the plaintiffs say.
 
IDK said:
Yes, I’m not sure what to make of the nurse. She’s obviously very experienced and knowledgeable. IMO only, there are some ICU nurses who are excellent with technology, medications and procedures, but maybe not quite as psychosocially aware? IDK.
It’s a children’s hospital so hopefully the staff would be well educated about dealing with all different kinds of parents and patients.

Honestly, it has rubbed me the wrong way how each staff member has brought up about Maya cursing. She was a 9 year old child in extreme distress and pain, no matter what the cause. Who knows where she picked it up, but kids are exposed to bad language all the time, even on the playground. The judgmental attitudes don’t help their case, IMO, but maybe the jurors will be as offended by the cursing as the staff was.

It will be very interesting how this all plays out with the jury.
Click to expand...
I worked with children and families in a school setting. There are young children and their parents who curse like sailors. If the employee can't handle this type of outburst, they're in the wrong environment. The hospital staff is so focused on Maya’s cursing. Looks like the defense attorneys prepared the witnesses too much.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1719693203312615850

WATCH LIVE: ‘Take Care of Maya’ Trial — Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Ch...
https://youtube.com/live/AQrlSKukjes?si=_sGaRkyee0rsVvaV via @YouTube


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Jw192 said:
I find this judge very biased and it's infuriating. It's like the defense are prohibited from actually putting up a defense!

I'm pretty set in stone on my opinion now, I believe that the hospital had every right to bring in CPS and they had every right to safeguard the child in those circumstances. I know that the trial is to do with the treatment Maya experienced at the hospital, but the circumstances of safeguarding play a huge part in that so I'm baffled as to why the judge is refusing so much to do with the MBP. I'm also struggling to believe anything from Maya herself, she was a child so I want to be careful and remember that, but she's almost 18 now and IMO the inconsistencies are still dripping from her. Whether that's a result of her mother's MBP, the obvious and horrendous amount of substances pumped into her, or that she has factious disorder herself... Whichever way, I just don't believe her :/

Imagine this hospital hadn't intervined and it ended up another case like The Blanchards or many others, people would be spitting blood asking how the medical professionals could let this happen!

Honestly I just can't buy into anything the plaintiffs say.
Click to expand...
This is spot on. This blatant bias towards the plaintiff is infuriating! The jury won’t get the full picture as major evidence to support the defence hasn’t been allowed in court.

Maya has claimed many things which photo and video evidence proves to be untrue or at the very least a huge exaggeration IMO, most of which hasn’t and won’t be presented.

IMO this was a tragic combination of MBP + facticious disorder + malingering that had a devestating conclusion.

It’s all documented, not just by JHACH but various other professionals who had suspicions about what was really going on with Maya. The plaintiffs want us to believe that every one was against the Kowalski’s, yet IMO have failed to present any convincing evidence that any pain and suffering is the direct fault of JHACH in this case.

MOO
 
arielilane said:
Days after Maya Kowalski's attorney said she was having a CRPS flare with lesions, photos on social media show her celebrating at parties.
Photos Show Maya Kowalski At Party Days After Health Setback

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719685902648095002
Click to expand...
I do not find this surprising at all because CRPS has flares much like the flares of Multiple Sclerosis. My daughter can be in extreme pain and unable to walk on her left leg for an hour to a couple days and then the pain level decreases and movement is not quite as challenging or painful.

I think someone would have to be the person with CRPS or something like MS or be their caregiver to understand how you can be unable to function one day and be able to celebrate at a party days later. My daughter's life drastically changed with CRPS..most days she can do very little and when she has a good pain day she wants to grab whatever enjoyment she can get out of life. Often this leads to several days of more severe pain but who can blame her for wanting to be a part of the "living" for a few hours ? After dealing with days upon days of severe pain, having a few hours or a couple of days with moderate pain is a blessing.
 
arielilane said:
Days after Maya Kowalski's attorney said she was having a CRPS flare with lesions, photos on social media show her celebrating at parties.
Photos Show Maya Kowalski At Party Days After Health Setback

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719685902648095002
Click to expand...
Maya explained about this on the witness stand today during the rebuttal case. I found her explanation believable. I understand everything is fair game in a trial like this, but it seems a little desperate on the defense side. IMO.
 
IDK said:
Yes, I’m not sure what to make of the nurse. She’s obviously very experienced and knowledgeable. IMO only, there are some ICU nurses who are excellent with technology, medications and procedures, but maybe not quite as psychosocially aware? IDK.
It’s a children’s hospital so hopefully the staff would be well educated about dealing with all different kinds of parents and patients.

Honestly, it has rubbed me the wrong way how each staff member has brought up about Maya cursing. She was a 9 year old child in extreme distress and pain, no matter what the cause. Who knows where she picked it up, but kids are exposed to bad language all the time, even on the playground. The judgmental attitudes don’t help their case, IMO, but maybe the jurors will be as offended by the cursing as the staff was.

It will be very interesting how this all plays out with the jury.
Click to expand...

I haven't really been keeping up, except on social media. But the impression I have is that the staff keeps bringing up the cursing to suggest Maya was more verbally aggressive when her mom was in the room, but was much easier to get along with when mom wasn't. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. I also don't think it's normal for a 9 year old, even in pain, to curse out adults, especially medical staff who are trying to help her, without correction from a parent in the room.

MOO.
 
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