16 July 2013 status conference discussion thread

[geevee]

P.S. I don't think a memory stick can come out of a camera in the washer (and the pic shows the Sony card by itself) so I don't think the camera had a memory stick in it when pulled from the washer. I think the Sony card must have been in there separate from the camera.

Since we haven't had testimony on the chunky blue one, and I haven't found a pic with a marker number by it, we don't know for certain it was found in the washer, and we don't know which pics were on which card. And we don't know if she saved the pics to a stick and changed the file association (say from .jpg to .gif) if that would change the date on the time stamp.

And why are the time stamps in different places on the pics? On some it's centered, on some it's right justified, why? Maybe I'll arrange the pics as to where the time stamp is located and see if it shows a pattern.

 

[geevee]

Great observation about the memory stick. I had not realized that the memory stick did not belong to Travis's Sony. For those who are interested, below is an image that shows the Sony memory stick (top) and the memory stick entered into evidence (bottom).


The nude photos and the shower photos were recovered from the internal storage of the Sony, not from any external storage device.
No wonder you question the memory stick that was entered into evidence. I am very curious about it as well. What camera did it fit? What was on it and why did it end up in the washing machine? With this information that is new to me, I now believe it was entirely possible that CMJA did transfer images onto TA's camera. Before, I considered that very far fetched, involving too much time and advance planning.

I have always been in the camp that believed the camera was intentionally put in the washer in an attempt to appear to destroy evidence. Given that the memory stick does not belong to the Sony, I am even more convinced that both items were purposefully put into the washing machine.

BBM Oh, thank you for that gcharlie, I thought all pics were from the Sony stick, I thought Melendez said the camera was wrecked from the water/bleach and its internal memory couldn't be accessed.

I have always believed the camera was intentional put in the washer as well.

 

[geevee]

Was there ever a second card? Or was it just that JA mentioned the other card to Det. Flores??? I only remember ever seeing the blue card that was from TA's camera because it had prior pictures of Travis that had not been deleted. Anyone know for sure without me going back to dig this out?

This is from the transcript of JA's statement to Det. Flores:

DF: He usually deleted all the pictures like this.

JA: Yeah, well, before he got…

08:45
DF: Any pictures like this that I found anywhere on his computer, camera, anything, they were deleted.

08:56
JA: Well, prior to him getting his camera all of those pictures were on my camera. Umm…so,

09:05:
DF: All these same pictures?

09:09
Umm…I don’t know. I don’t know. We took…umm…we took a bunch the week before I left. Umm….we took a bunch over the last 6 or 7 months. Umm we took over the last year even when we were still dating but we would delete them mostly.

There were some that he sent me that I didn’t delete. Umm…what I’m asking… is it possible that you know that my memory card would have been in his camera, if they’re interchangeable?

09:47
DF: How do you know if they’re interchangeable?

09:49
JA: I don’t…That’s why I’m asking is what kind of memory card it was…

09:53
Just a regular little sd card.

09:56
(JA reaches across the table, picks up a pencil/pen and begins to draw on DF’s paper)
JA: Well, cos I’ve got one…I’ve got one that’s like this big, and it’s thin, like a cracker. The one I use in my professional camera is like this size, and it’s more kinda’ like that big, and the little one is really thin, and it’s got like little thingy’s here. (unintelligible)…one looks like that in the middle part, so that one obviously probably wouldn’t be interchangeable because it’s a Canon and it’s…

10:23
DF: It’s not interchangeable.

10:25
JA: But… the other one… (Sighs) I don’t know. I don’t know.
10:30
DF: Your camera’s here. His camera’s there. He just bought that camera.


10:33
JA: Well, the other camera that I used before that’s broken now it’s in my storage unit. But it’s still there.

10:39
DF: And you’re saying those pictures are on that camera?

10:42
JA: I’m… no… what I’m saying is, I had several memory cards for this camera that I don’t have any more, and so, I guess… it’s so far fetched… I would guess it’s possible that my card…

10:57
DF: You’re saying somebody took your pictures or your card and is framing you and put that into his camera and…

11:04
JA: No, no, no, no. I’m just saying that if… if my memory cards were left at his house he could…he would have used those for his camera. I don’t know. I don’t know. I can explain the blood though and I can explain the hair. I don’t know about the palm print.

11:21
DF: I can explain the blood or the hair.

11:24
Well, the hair, there’s hair everywhere and probably every square inch of that house, my hair. You sweep it and you’ll get hair everywhere – all over around the toilet, around in the shower… I don’t know about the shower because the shower gets used, but definitely around the bottom of the sink area and maybe in the trash…

11:42
DF: That still doesn’t explain the hair to me. It had a follicle in it. You haven’t been there since April. There’s no way. No way. The blood, no. The blood is mixed with his, and that’s the blood he bled that day when he was killed. Print…

12:03
JA: Well, you can check how fresh the blood was.

12:09
DF: No, we can’t check how fresh it is but we can go by where it is.

12:13
JA: Oh, okay, because I cut myself.

12:16
DF: And you’re saying that that blood that you cut yourself with back, who knows when, is still on the wall in the exact same spot?

12:28
JA: Oh, I don’t know

12:31
DF: where the bloody palm print was.

12:38
JA: It was a glass that Travis had that I was using to wash Napoleon with. I used to give him baths, and I dropped it, and when I picked up all the glass, and I’m pretty casual about it because I break glass at work all the time, and it’s not a big deal. It’s nothing to be scared of. I was probably just being careless with it and I sliced myself open and…

12:56
DF: Is that how you want to leave this? These far fetched excuses of why your blood is there, why your hair is there, why your palm print is there, what pictures are there?

13:08
JA: I don’t know about the pictures.


The mention of the card was to try and throw DF off regarding those pictures of her taken the day she was there. At the time JA was attempting to explain why it appeared she was there when wanted him to believe she wasn't.

BBM

Yes, but for that 'other one'...

 

[geevee]

Two thoughts and I'll hush up again. Perhaps TA was the one who deleted the photos on JA's sim card. She was angry and made sure to throw the stick in the washer so someone would still find them and recover them if they cared to.

Why does everyone take JA's word that they had sex that day. This I will never understand.

Because the nude pics have that day's time stamp on them.

 

[LambChop]

Now I'm confused. Where did the black memory card picture originate because it's not in an evidence bag, nor is it shown in the washer picture with the other card??? Plus the pictures were from a photobucket account to show the difference. Anyone know what the PRO part of the memory card means. Is this a card that would have come from Jodi's "professional" camera?

 

[LambChop]

This is all I was able to find in the timeline:

Re: Camera--Camera was in the washer, as all in one piece, memory stick was in the camera. Melendez had to buy a power cord. Camera doesn't appear to be ruined. There is nothing broken on it other than the button to take the photos is missing as it fell off when Melendez was handling the camera. The camera button is rubber.
--If the camera were upside down the button would be hitting the ground.
--When Melendez got the camera it wasn't wet. He couldn't really tell as he used gloved hands. It wasn't noted in his report if the camera was wet or smelled like bleach. He doesn't think he could smell bleach.
--The memory stick did not appear to be crushed and did not look like somebody tried to break it.


There was no mention of another memory stick in the washer.

 

[geevee]

Now I'm confused. Where did the black memory card picture originate because it's not in an evidence bag, nor is it shown in the washer picture with the other card??? Plus the pictures were from a photobucket account to show the difference. Anyone know what the PRO part of the memory card means. Is this a card that would have come from Jodi's "professional" camera?

---
09:56
(JA reaches across the table, picks up a pencil/pen and begins to draw on DF’s paper)
JA: Well, cos I’ve got one…I’ve got one that’s like this big, and it’s thin, like a cracker. The one I use in my professional camera is like this size, and it’s more kinda’ like that big, and the little one is really thin, and it’s got like little thingy’s here. (unintelligible)…one looks like that in the middle part, so that one obviously probably wouldn’t be interchangeable because it’s a Canon and it’s…

---

The Canon stick she's talking about (and drew) is the chunky blue one, she knows it's at the scene but Flores is holding out on her about it. I haven't seen a photo of the blue one at the scene with a marker number by it, I don't know where it was collected from, it certainly isn't the stick that fits the Sony camera (the skinny black one is, marker 37).

I looked through all the pics, the time stamp justification changes, all of the shower pics have it Center Justified but not perfectly centered, slight to the right, that stops with pic 5:29:12, the time stamps become Right Justified through the last accidental pic. On all of the nude pics the time stamp is perfectly Center Justified. I don't know if that means the shower pics were cut off on the right or if it means anything at all, I just found it odd that the time stamps are not all justified the same way if these are the full pics from the camera.

ETA: I should say I think the blue stick is for a Canon camera, I'm not positive but am looking it up now.

 

[MeeBee]

Her hair; I think the tone of her hair is lighter in the nudies than in the car pics from the 3rd, but the quality of the nudie where you can see her hair well is so bad it's really hard to determine. Supposedly there's a pic of her as she's leaving Mesa in the UHaul in April (showing/not showing neck bruises), I wish we could get that pic, it would solve it as to her hair color then.

Well there is a pic from her myspace that shows her with lightish brown/blonde highlights that is dated 2008. But minor 4th started a really good Jodi hair thread that show the pictures from that session (same hair, same clothes, same dog) were updated at least a year earlier. So, if I am not mistaken (and it is possible I am) the pictures of her with that brassy/blonde hair had to have been much earlier, probably before she even met Travis.

Supposedly there's a pic of her as she's leaving Mesa in the UHaul in April (showing/not showing neck bruises), I wish we could get that pic, it would solve it as to her hair color then.

I really wish we would could see this picture too, I forgot about that. IIRC, Jodi took a selfie in the UHAUL that she said showed bruises on her neck and apparently Juan was going to use it to a.) show that there were no bruises visible and b.) show that she is still bleach blonde by then. I think Jodi wanted to explain it away by saying well, she was wearing makeup over them (could you see the bruises or couldn't you Jodi) but somehow the defense was successful in not letting him use the photo. Ugh.

I remember that Jodi stayed at Travis' just before she moved, it was the occasion she was only supposed to stay one night but ended up staying 4. Wonder if the sexual tryst was from then and the shower pics were from June. Still doesn't explain the hair to me though.

 

[MeeBee]

Two thoughts and I'll hush up again. Perhaps TA was the one who deleted the photos on JA's sim card. She was angry and made sure to throw the stick in the washer so someone would still find them and recover them if they cared to.

Why does everyone take JA's word that they had sex that day. This I will never understand.

Well, personally I am not taking just Jodi's word that they are from that day. If Jodi's word was all we had then I might be inclined to not believe it either as it doesn't make sense. But there are two key things that suggest to me no other alternative: 1. The time stamps are from June 4th, mere hours before the shower pics and Travis' murder and 2. the color of Jodi's hair. There's just no other reasonable explanation other than conjecture. Supposedly Jodi was a blonde when she left Mesa. So these pics had to have been from after she dyed it brunette which she (allegedly) did after leaving Mesa. She never saw Travis in May. Only June 4th after her move. Only logical conclusion is that they are indeed from the 4th.

 

[geevee]

Allyne (a member here) found this Flickr album when we had the sequence of events thread going:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27308599@N07/

No clue who opened or uploaded the pics, but didn't JA go on the hot air balloon trip? Flickr shows the camera that took that pic was a Canon Eos Rebel XTi, I was trying to find a memory stick for that camera that matches the blue one but unsuccessful so far and the pic isn't good enough to read anything on the card itself.

A couple of those pics were taken with a Sony but the model is different than the camera we have.

 

[MeeBee]

Oh! Also, remember the picture with her sister was supposed to have been taken in May 2008 and Juan used it to show her finger was not broken in it? Her did not look either blonde or brown but that same brassy blonde that was in the pics with the dog. Hmmmm...the mystery deepens. I can't believe we cannot get a definitive answer on what color her hair was in the month of May. Jodi takes so many damn pictures of herself you'd think it would be well documented.

 

[geevee]

Oh! Also, remember the picture with her sister was supposed to have been taken in May 2008 and Juan used it to show her finger was not broken in it? Her did not look either blonde or brown but that same brassy blonde that was in the pics with the dog. Hmmmm...the mystery deepens. I can't believe we cannot get a definitive answer on what color her hair was in the month of May. Jodi takes so many damn pictures of herself you'd think it would be well documented.

Hahaha You got that right.

 

[MeeBee]

So, apparently the defense wants to argue that Jodi has BPD and there is mentally unwell and should not be put to death, even though they went to great lengths to refute this diagnosis that they even put on a rarely granted surrebuttal (they should never have been granted one BTW. They should have had the foresight to refute Dr. Horn in their CIC and Dr. Demarte's testimony was a rebuttal to the defense diagnosis of PTSD. But I digress). I read somewhere on here that they even want to call Dr. Demarte for their side to talk about BPD.

Bernina posted in the Michael Dunn thread about the trial of John Spooner. He was convicted of first degree intentional murder and today they rejected his insanity defense and he will probably be sentenced to life in prison.

The state called a phsychologist to rebut this claim and this is what happened:

"Deborah Collins, a psychologist and director of the Wisconsin Forensic Unit commissioned to testify by the prosecution, said Spooner was "seething in anger" but was otherwise mentally sane and in touch with reality when he shot Simmons. Notably, she said medical textbooks do not classify hypomanic personality as a mental disease but instead as a personality disorder."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...oised-to-go-to-jury-b9957841z1-216148051.html

I sure hope now that the state knows where they plan to go that they call someone like this to refute the claim that Jodi should not be put to death because she has a 'mental illness'.

Borderline Personality Disorder (or psychopathy for that matter) is not a mental illness, it is a personality disorder. It does not preclude her from knowing right from wrong, and it is not the reason she committed murder that day.

Also, WOW! Nurmi tried to quit again? I wonder what the tactic is here. Does he genuinely want to quit or is it a stalling technique. This defense team has issues. They don't know which way is up and I am not getting very strong lawyer vibes from them. I cannot believe that their case took THREE MONTHS when they didn't even call that many witnesses. Three months.

 

[Tiger09]

What a load of blah blah blah.
At least she got one word right.

This website has kept me intrigued and busy for hours now. Thanks lol. Eta: do we know what's on both memory cards? I'm curious.

 

[LambChop]

Allyne (a member here) found this Flickr album when we had the sequence of events thread going:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27308599@N07/

No clue who opened or uploaded the pics, but didn't JA go on the hot air balloon trip? Flickr shows the camera that took that pic was a Canon Eos Rebel XTi, I was trying to find a memory stick for that camera that matches the blue one but unsuccessful so far and the pic isn't good enough to read anything on the card itself.

A couple of those pics were taken with a Sony but the model is different than the camera we have.

There was none mentioned that I could see. Just the small memory card that was in evidence which they found inside the camera. No internal memory inside the camera itself, just on the blue card. The only person mentioning two memory cards and describing them was JA.

And then there is logic. Why would she have left him with a memory card when he had no camera on her last visit, which is the point she was trying to make?

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 6 - Afternoon Part 1/4 - YouTube

 

[Tuba]

Charts have consistently indicated that C.M.'s attorneys want their freedom. She, C.M., has been appearing as Neptune retrograde in Pisces: deluded, uncooperative and bogus. It was startling when Nurmi admitted he disliked her but it did ring true & there was considerable feeling behind it. We also have to say that he has been consistent over the years of involvement, an involvement he never wanted. Telling the court that he has other obligations, although true, is put forward as obstacle in hopes he will be relieved of representing Arias. As Websleuths have argued, his schedule can be rearranged. His stubborn insistence on prior commitments is depicted in the charts as Mercury square Uranus, a lingering influence because Mercury changed apparent direction. He and Willmott are also counting on diminished impetus & incentive to try the penalty phase as the months drag with no progress. I called it passive aggression. If Mom is serving brussels sprouts & boiled broccoli and junior doesn't come down for dinner & even pleads he's too wet from his bath, he's hoping the food will grow cold and he'll be excused. Just stall until everyone loses interest~that sort of passive aggression. A childish example because indeed it is childish, so transparent and so susceptible to rescheduling if the party wanted to accommodate this re-trial.

 

[Tiger09]

I kinda feel a tad sorry for Nurmi. I don't think he ever wanted to be her lawyer and it showed. The appeal writes itself- ineffective counsel. Dude is connected to this case forever.

 

[geevee]

There was none mentioned that I could see. Just the small memory card that was in evidence which they found inside the camera. No internal memory inside the camera itself, just on the blue card. The only person mentioning two memory cards and describing them was JA.

And then there is logic. Why would she have left him with a memory card when he had no camera on her last visit, which is the point she was trying to make?

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 6 - Afternoon Part 1/4 - YouTube

Melendez says there were no pictures on the camera's internal memory.

Melendez says the back was on the camera when he got it.

(Picture of camera in washing machine shows the inside of the back of the camera with batteries visible. I seem to recall one of the CSI (Heather?) said it was not on the camera during collection (will have to watch her testimony re camera again to be sure).

Melendez says the memory stick was inside the camera when he got it.

(Picture of a Sony memory stick by itself on washing machine).

He also says the stick had a cover that it was in and both were where a memory stick is inserted into a camera (can anyone tell on the washing machine pic where the memory stick goes?


I'm having a hard time squaring his testimony with the crime scene photos. Exhibit 215 is the camera memory card he shows when testifying, it looks the same as the pic we have of the blue one but I can't get a decent screen shot. It looks bigger than the Sony would and the Sony has nothing like a cover on it (that I can see).

P.S. Forgot to say thanks for the vid link, Lambchops.

 

[LambChop]

Melendez says there were no pictures on the camera's internal memory.

Melendez says the back was on the camera when he got it.

(Picture of camera in washing machine shows the inside of the back of the camera with batteries visible. I seem to recall one of the CSI (Heather?) said it was not on the camera during collection (will have to watch her testimony re camera again to be sure).

Melendez says the memory stick was inside the camera when he got it.

(Picture of a Sony memory stick by itself on washing machine).

He also says the stick had a cover that it was in and both were where a memory stick is inserted into a camera (can anyone tell on the washing machine pic where the memory stick goes?


I'm having a hard time squaring his testimony with the crime scene photos. Exhibit 215 is the camera memory card he shows when testifying, it looks the same as the pic we have of the blue one but I can't get a decent screen shot. It looks bigger than the Sony would and the Sony has nothing like a cover on it (that I can see).

P.S. Forgot to say thanks for the vid link, Lambchops.

I don't know. Does seem strange to see the stick on the washer. It's a mystery. I just have not been able to find any reference to a second memory card other than the one that belongs in the camera. jmo

 

[geevee]

I don't know. Does seem strange to see the stick on the washer. It's a mystery. I just have not been able to find any reference to a second memory card other than the one that belongs in the camera. jmo

Same here Lambchop (no 's', sorry about that), nor any explanation of why pictures vary from what's testified to. We already have too many unanswered questions to have to deal with this too. lol