17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[mercuriod]

GZ had a gun and weighs, I believe, twice as much as Trayvon at least. Maybe even three times as much. Trayvon was unarmed. Who exactly was going to have great bodily harm done to them here? How could GZ be afraid of great bodily harm when he was the only one armed and weighs a lot more than the boy he is chasing? He initiated this. Even if Trayvon mouthed back, GZ still weighs more and has a GUN. Claiming self defense is ludicrous here. There is no way that GZ was in fear of great bodily harm. I just don't see it.

The only person afraid of great bodily harm was Trayvon, which is why he fought back to protect himself!

I believe you have the weights WAY wrong, LOL. According to reports Trayvon weighed 160 and GZ's was not listed but for him to be twice as much as TM that would put him at 320 lbs and three times as much at 480 lbs, have you seen the police video of GZ walking into the station? No way he weighed 320 to 480 lbs. jmo, imo and all that jazz

 

[JeannaT]

Quoting myself because something else just occurred to me. So GZ didn't shoot Trayvon until after Trayvon jumped him and started beating him. Why didn't he shoot him BEFORE he jumped him? Wouldn't he have been afraid of great bodily harm with Trayvon coming at him? Why wasn't he afraid until after Trayvon was beating him? I'm basing this on GZ's description of the events, btw.

It just seems odd that an armed man that weighs twice as much as a non-violent teenage boy he was chasing was pushed down and beat on before shooting the boy. Something doesn't seem right with that. It seems to me GZ knew he wouldn't get away with it unless Trayvon beat on him a bit first. He couldn't claim self defense and stand your ground if he didn't have any wounds. Maybe this sounds all conspiracy theorist, but I think he antagonized Trayvon, let Trayvon beat him up a bit, and then shot him. The events just don't make sense to me otherwise.

THAT would have been murder. To shoot someone you are in a verbal argument with is murder. To shoot someone who is pounding your head into the concrete is self-defense.

In a verbal altercation, GZ would have no reason to fear for his life. A yelling match between two men isn't cause for shooting.

 

[LambChop]

Would this be the meeting that the SA denies attending, the one that he became extremely belligerent over?



~jmo~

I think the SA denies meeting with the Chief, who is on administrative leave. It appears the SA is trying to distance himself from having any contact with the Chief. But why? Did the Chief meet with RZ before they decided not to charge GZ? I would think George would have called his father as soon as he was given permission to use a phone. And we do know RZ was at the police station, we just don't know what time he arrived. jmo

 

[cityslick]

That's what we have heard...but GZ said he did. So did GZ lie about him running to make his story better? Or did TM say that trying to sound brave and then take off running?

IDK, that's the problem with trying to match these things up when we don't even have the full context of the TM phone conversation. Did the GF notice him running? Was he out of breath when he was talking to her (that he had been running)? Did he really sound scared or was trying to act tough?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Thanks LLL. That was a great article and one that I agree with a million times over. I wonder where Zimmerman Sr. was at when Zimmerman was outside spraying down "bullies" with the water hose? Why didn't he bother to correct his son's behavior then? If he had held Zimmerman accountable for his actions through the years, then perhaps Trayvon would be alive today though considering the destructive path in which Zimmerman was allowed to continue, to do as he pleased without fear of punishment, I feel certain if it hadn't been Trayvon, it would have been some other child at some point, perhaps the little 7-9 kids that he called and reported to 911?


~jmo~

You are welcome, Adrienne...just a few more days to go to see what The Grand Jury does and ACory...

Justice for Trayvon Martin....

 

[tlcya]

The first layer, of course, is the crime story: What actually happened between high school student Trayvon Martin and neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman on that fateful February night in Sanford, Florida? Who attacked whom first?

The second layer is the law enforcement story: What did the cops know, how thoroughly did they investigate and why didn't they arrest Zimmerman?

The third is the legal story: What is the "stand your ground' law? Did it apply in this case and should it exist at all?

The fourth layer is the media story: Why did so many news organizations fail to cover the story for so long and was there a rush to judgment once they did?

The fifth is a family story: What if this had happened to your child? Should you tell your kids to stop wearing hoodies?

And then, of course, there is the race story: Was the dead teenager suspected and trailed just because he was black? What does it mean that the man who shot him was Hispanic? How much racial baggage has everyone brought to everything that has happened since: the protests, the calls for investigations and hearings, the celebrity videos, the opinion columns and TV commentaries on all sides?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/opinion/whitaker-in-depth-martin/index.html?hpt=ju_bn1

 

[Footwarrior]

They'll have to check to see if the time sources are/were synchronized. I only mention this because, in my house, the iMac, iPad, iPhone and cable box—which are all supposed to be "accurate" time keepers—are off by several minutes. It's very frustrating and I haven't been able to figure out why because in theory they should all be synching to the same EDT master clock (or at least that's what I think they should be doing).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

The T-Mobile bill was rounded to the nearest minute. The cell phone system records that bill was based on will have call start and end times accurate to the nearest second. If the investigators are on the ball, they will have requested these records.

As for your iPhone and iPad times, go to Settings, General, Date & Time and check that the Time Zone is correct and Set Automatically is On.

 

[Aedrys]

He could have been killed, actually. People die in fist fights all the time.

BTW, GZ didn't outweigh Trayvon by 100 pounds. Trayvon weighed approx. 160, and looking at the video in the police station, that man is NOT 260 pounds. I read a blog, on MSM, with the misconceptions in this case and that's a glaring one.

If I had to back one of these two in a fight, it would be Trayvon 100%

Why? There is nothing to suggest that Trayvon was a violent individual or knew how to fight. All we have is GZ claiming that Trayvon beat him. So what is the basis for saying that Trayvon is a better fighter? I think a paranoid man who chases people with guns is more dangerous than a non-violent youth who is unarmed. There is also nothing to suggest that GZ doesn't know how to fight. Of the two, GZ has been far more aggressive and violent in his past. I'd bet on him being the better fighter. Size and height doesn't always determine who is the better fighter, IMO.

 

[cityslick]

It's been reported in numerous articles, numerous, that Trayvon weighed was 6 feet 3 and 240 lbs. We know from Zimmerman's 2005 mugshot that he weighed 250-260. The only person we have who states Zimmerman was no longer that heavy is his "uncle" Joe Oliver and to me, his word ain't worth the paper it's written on.



~Jmo~

The LE report has GZ under 200lbs.

 

[LambChop]

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-zimmerman/2012/04/05/zimmermans-father-speaks-out-hannity

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Which way is he running?

ZIMMERMAN: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: OK, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

ZIMMERMAN: The back entrance --

Still no proof he was running and TM certainly was not found by the back gate. He was no where near it. jmo

 

[mercuriod]

The LE report has GZ under 200lbs.

The LE report also has TM at 160 lbs.

 

[cityslick]

Why? There is nothing to suggest that Trayvon was a violent individual or knew how to fight. All we have is GZ claiming that Trayvon beat him. So what is the basis for saying that Trayvon is a better fighter? I think a paranoid man who chases people with guns is more dangerous than a non-violent youth who is unarmed. There is also nothing to suggest that GZ doesn't know how to fight. Of the two, GZ has been far more aggressive and violent in his past. I'd bet on him being the better fighter. Size and height doesn't always determine who is the better fighter, IMO.

I disagree, someone who is paranoid and wants to be LE, wants to be a person of authority, actually is probably very afraid when it comes to confrontation. Usually when you act like you are trying to be something you are not, you are covering up a deficiency or a fear. Hiding behind a persona.

 

[Aedrys]

THAT would have been murder. To shoot someone you are in a verbal argument with is murder. To shoot someone who is pounding your head into the concrete is self-defense.

In a verbal altercation, GZ would have no reason to fear for his life. A yelling match between two men isn't cause for shooting.

BBM. My point is proven. I wasn't talking about the verbal altercation part of it, btw. I was talking about GZ saying that Travyon came at him. That isn't standing there and yelling. That's someone coming into GZ's face and threatening him. But he didn't shoot him until after somehow Trayvon knocked GZ down and started beating him, the point when GZ could claim stand your ground. It's something to think about.

 

[LambChop]

Why? There is nothing to suggest that Trayvon was a violent individual or knew how to fight. All we have is GZ claiming that Trayvon beat him. So what is the basis for saying that Trayvon is a better fighter? I think a paranoid man who chases people with guns is more dangerous than a non-violent youth who is unarmed. There is also nothing to suggest that GZ doesn't know how to fight. Of the two, GZ has been far more aggressive and violent in his past. I'd bet on him being the better fighter. Size and height doesn't always determine who is the better fighter, IMO.

GZ worked as a bouncer. He knows how to handle people in a fight. jmo

 

[nao]

GZ new TM was a teenager, would GZ of followed an adult - don't think so-GZ let his ego rule - thats why he would not be a good cop.

 

[Aedrys]

I believe you have the weights WAY wrong, LOL. According to reports Trayvon weighed 160 and GZ's was not listed but for him to be twice as much as TM that would put him at 320 lbs and three times as much at 480 lbs, have you seen the police video of GZ walking into the station? No way he weighed 320 to 480 lbs. jmo, imo and all that jazz

Sorry about that. I changed the wording in my posts after that one. For some reason I thought Trayvon was lighter than one sixty, and GZ never looked all that skinny to me. But I hadn't seen the reports either. I was going just on what I saw.

 

[Velouria]

Yes. The lead investigator believed this was a case where charges should be filed.

I think that happens a lot - LE goes to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor refuses to press charges because they can't win in court with the evidence so far.

It's common, and I don't think there's anything shady or underhanded about it. Cops believe a crime was committed, the prosecutor believes there's not enough evidence.

Which is likely why the Martin family and many others have questioned the actions, or rather INaction, of SA Wolfinger that night.

The prosecutor's job is to pursue charges when there is evidence sufficient to support that a crime has been committed.

When the State Attorney’s Office receives a formal complaint from a law enforcement agency, an Assistant State Attorney, assigned to the case, will review the reports and may interview witnesses. It is important to cooperate with this office to ensure that all the information about the crime is provided.

This review of the case will determine if there is sufficient evidence to pursue criminal prosecution, and if so, the attorney will file the formal charging document, called an "Information" with the court. You will be notified by letter of this decision.

http://sao.co.sarasota.fl.us/legal.htm

Whether a prosecutor can "win a case in court" is not the standard he is required to follow, according to Florida law, as well as the law of pretty much every jurisdiction I'm aware of.

 

[Elley Mae]

The first layer, of course, is the crime story: What actually happened between high school student Trayvon Martin and neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman on that fateful February night in Sanford, Florida? Who attacked whom first?
The second layer is the law enforcement story: What did the cops know, how thoroughly did they investigate and why didn't they arrest Zimmerman?

The third is the legal story: What is the "stand your ground' law? Did it apply in this case and should it exist at all?

The fourth layer is the media story: Why did so many news organizations fail to cover the story for so long and was there a rush to judgment once they did?

The fifth is a family story: What if this had happened to your child? Should you tell your kids to stop wearing hoodies?

And then, of course, there is the race story: Was the dead teenager suspected and trailed just because he was black? What does it mean that the man who shot him was Hispanic? How much racial baggage has everyone brought to everything that has happened since: the protests, the calls for investigations and hearings, the celebrity videos, the opinion columns and TV commentaries on all sides?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/opinion/whitaker-in-depth-martin/index.html?hpt=ju_bn1

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/trayvon_martin

If you read the articles here from the beginning you will be able to determine for your self if the ball was dropped. I truly don't see that, jmo but what I see was that at some time early on in the case another jmo journalist ran with it as being prematurely dismissed because of race and then the train wreck began.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I still can't get past GZ's story about TM jumping him from behind. For the life of me, I can't figure out how someone that jumps you from behind manages to punch you in the face breaking your nose. :waitasec:




JMHO

 

[Aedrys]

I still can't get past GZ's story about TM jumping him from behind. For the life of me, I can't figure out how someone that jumps you from behind manages to punch you in the face breaking your nose. :waitasec:




JMHO

That does not make sense. The whole fight aspect makes no sense. This is what bothers me the most. I think GZ is lying about it.