17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[TonyGatto]

Given the very tight timeline we've been dealing with...match it against what GZ's father says transpired in that short time:

ZIMMERMAN: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes, and George was walking down the main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going.

He continued walking down that sidewalk to the next street. He wanted an address. All he could see was the back of the townhomes and he could not see an address. So he asked the dispatcher to have the responding unit call him, and he could tell him the address. So he walked down to the end of the street -- I'm sorry, to the end of the sidewalk to the next street to get an address. He did not know at that time where Trayvon Martin had gone. As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him.

ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address. He was walking back to his vehicle. Trayvon came from his left side, asked him did he have a problem. George said no. At that point Trayvon said well you do now. He punched him in the nose, knocked him to the concrete, and started beating him. George was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. It's clearly him on the tape. There's absolutely no doubt about who it is. A neighbor came, saw what was happening. Saw George being beaten. Heard George yelling for help and the neighbors said he was calling 911. That's what he went inside and did.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1rC33ItCH

 

[TonyGatto]

Good. He has every right to do so and I expect there will be plenty of donations. Others are certainly making money on this, the least GZ is entitled to is a defense fund imo.

This is kinda like the Martin family setting up a foundation.

 

[Elley Mae]

Given the very tight timeline we've been dealing with...match it against what GZ's father says transpired in that short time:

ZIMMERMAN: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes, and George was walking down the main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going.

He continued walking down that sidewalk to the next street. He wanted an address. All he could see was the back of the townhomes and he could not see an address. So he asked the dispatcher to have the responding unit call him, and he could tell him the address. So he walked down to the end of the street -- I'm sorry, to the end of the sidewalk to the next street to get an address. He did not know at that time where Trayvon Martin had gone. As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him.

ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address. He was walking back to his vehicle. Trayvon came from his left side, asked him did he have a problem. George said no. At that point Trayvon said well you do now. He punched him in the nose, knocked him to the concrete, and started beating him. George was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. It's clearly him on the tape. There's absolutely no doubt about who it is. A neighbor came, saw what was happening. Saw George being beaten. Heard George yelling for help and the neighbors said he was calling 911. That's what he went inside and did.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1rC33ItCH

I wonder if at this point GZ being out of TM's view that he (TM) did then turn to see where GZ was going and proceeded to follow him then after GZ did get the address and turned to go back to the sidewalk that runs between the homes in the back.

 

[vlpate]

If he got off the phone with gf @ 7:16p how can he be dead at 7:17p? Is the timeline correct? I believe the 911 recording have the gunshots going off at 7:17p.(I read this somewhere else so I don't know how factual that is).

I think the time he got off the phone with his g/f is assumed to have been before the screaming since that is when, according to GZ, Trayvon punched him and, according to g/f, when TM's headphones came off. This is a pretty good video that counts down the seconds and events of some of the first few calls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-a58plIcrdo#!

If this is accurate, the gunshot was heard at 7:16:56.

 

[LolaMoon08]

So Trayvon was an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**ing punk." A lot better than the other word I thought was muttered, but still... a little harsh.

 

[Allusonz]

The only source we have for the call between TM and his girlfriend only reports calls to the minute. We don't know if T-Mobile rounds time stamps the nearest minute or if they simply drop the seconds. We also can't assume that the call lasted exactly 4 minutes. Does T-Mobile round up call times to the next minute?

I don't recall any of the 911 calls starting at exactly 7:16 pm. Even if the first call did, the struggle must have been going on for some time before the start of the call. It takes time for someone to realize there is a problem, decide to call 911, dial the phone and for the 911 operator to answer the call. I would be amazed if this took less than 15 seconds.

Most cell phone companies round the time UP not down for billing purposes and I believe this is where some of the timing confusion is arising.

As well there were more than one call from the GF and I believe information is being attributed to the one call only not both calls.

ETA JMO MOO

 

[lillygator]

LOL LOL yeah it was really cold, 60 degrees and he had that big old coat on.

as a Native anything under 70 is freezing to me!

This is kinda like the Martin family setting up a foundation.

and the trademarking....

 

[MarthaM]

So Trayvon was an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**ing punk." A lot better than the other word I thought was muttered, but still... a little harsh.

More than a little harsh, IMO. Really, what had Trayvon done to earn any name-calling whatsoever from this guy? What is it about a teenager walking along that makes him either an a-hole or a 'punk' (or whatever the word turns out to be)?

 

[uvamerica]

uvamerica posted a link yesterday that I didn't read until a little while ago about a letter that someone in the Zimmerman family allegedly sent to the sister of a black homeless man that was beaten a couplr of years ago by an SPD officer's son. I vaguely remember the situation from the news because, like Zimmerman, the officer's son wasn't arrested right away and there were protests out of the black community.

I'm almost shaking my head in amazement at this letter that was also copied to the NAACP in Sanford by whoever wrote it:



Excuse Me?

Can they possibly think that GZ taking the life of Trayvon can be excused or forgotten about even IF it's true about George grandstanding at a church and handing out a few flyers? Then to close the letter with telling an outraged group of people what they NEED to do? If George Zimmerman had been telling the truth this ticking time bomb could have been diffused long ago in a very simple straight forward fashion.

:rocker:
Thank You Papa, I don't know if you saw the whole letter, but here it is
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/04/04/DOC040412.pdf

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So Trayvon was an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**ing punk." A lot better than the other word I thought was muttered, but still... a little harsh.

Maybe harsh but certainly not racial as has been reported, accused, assumed,... for a long time now.

 

[CathyinTexas]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-05/trayvon-martin-poll/54047512/1

Blacks were more likely to think Zimmerman is guilty of a crime; 51% say he was definitely guilty and 21% say he was probably guilty. Whites were more inclined to reserve judgment; 58% say his guilt was unclear based on information currently available.


http://www.lsa.umich.edu/polisci/people/ci.hutchingsvincent_ci.detail

If I had taken the poll I would say I am white, and GZ is guilty.

 

[CathyinTexas]

So Trayvon was an "*advertiser censored**hole" and a "*advertiser censored**ing punk." A lot better than the other word I thought was muttered, but still... a little harsh.

Yeah, really. How could he possibly know or think he was those things, unless he was profiling him?

 

[vlpate]

That does not match the timing on the police log in the "initial police report" posted on the City of Sanford web site.

The "he's running" comment is roughly two minutes into GZ's call, but the operator at SPD at 19:11:59 entered into the log, "subj now running towards back entrance of complex".

I rounded up 1 second.

I think some of the confusion may be that all the information the girlfriend is narrating has been attributed to the last call she had with TM. There were two earlier calls shown on the call log from ABC News - at 6:54 and at 7:04.

I think some of the events she has narrated happened during the call that began at 7:04 - TM passed GZ, saw him watching him, ducked under a porch, pulled up his hood, and ran. Maybe the call dropped while he was running, maybe when GZ (at about 7:11) saw TM's hand at his waistband and something in TM's hand, TM was disconnecting the call.

So is it your understanding that TM first saw GZ inside the community at around 7:04?

GZ did not describe someone suspicious standing under a porch, he described someone walking about, looking at houses. He then started staring at GZ and then walked toward him, then ran away. From what I can tell, looking at the maps, I don't know that GZ would be able to see TM under a dark porch. JMO
<snipped respectfully>

ETA - most of the media have been saying that GZ's call began at 7:10 - according to the SPD log of the call it connected at 19:09:34. That could be what is throwing their timeline off.

I've seen it from 7:09 to 7:11 - and you are right, the log shows 7:09 when contact was made with 911, and 7:11 as the time when the log was created. It wouldn't be a big deal under most circumstances, but the less than three minute window for everything to take place, makes every second count, IMO.

 

[frenchvixen]

The attack was likely going on for more than 44 seconds, the 911 caller contacted 911 when Trayvon was on top of GZ. The confrontation and punch in the nose had already happened.

I have a question that I think about every time I read someone's belief that it was Trayvon screaming on that call - what was he screaming about for over 45 seconds? If he is on top of Zimmerman, why is he screaming "help, help me, help..." over and over. I can't make sense of the person doing the beating yelling for help.

If the phone call with the g/f ended @ 7:16p and he died @ 7:17p that leaves one minute in between (if that much). There was no fight yet when the call ended with his g/f. The most you have to play with is 1 minute for all of this to occur. Please explain

 

[vlpate]

I think the time he got off the phone with his g/f is assumed to have been before the screaming since that is when, according to GZ, Trayvon punched him and, according to g/f, when TM's headphones came off. This is a pretty good video that counts down the seconds and events of some of the first few calls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-a58plIcrdo#!

If this is accurate, the gunshot was heard at 7:16:56.

Excuse my jumping off my own post, but it just hit me - the gunshot was 4 seconds before the first officer arrived at the community. How profoundly sad. Four seconds and Trayvon Martin would be alive.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I noticed in one of the photos of Trayvon, he is wearing glasses. Did anyone catch if he was wearing them that evening?

 

[rotterdam]

I noticed in one of the photos of Trayvon, he is wearing glasses. Did anyone catch if he was wearing them that evening?

I doubt it. GZ had a good look at Tray, close enough to report that he was wearing a button on his hoodie. Surely ,he would have mentioned glasses to the dispatcher.

 

[vlpate]

If the phone call with the g/f ended @ 7:16p and he died @ 7:17p that leaves one minute in between (if that much). There was no fight yet when the call ended with his g/f. The most you have to play with is 1 minute for all of this to occur. Please explain

The first 911 call we know of, came in at 7:16:11 - they had already been fighting, one would assume, when the call came in.

The g/f alleges the phone disconnected when the "scuffle" began, which had to be between 7:13:41 when GZ hung up with 911, and roughly 7:15 - 7:16.

 

[csziggy]

Given the very tight timeline we've been dealing with...match it against what GZ's father says transpired in that short time:

ZIMMERMAN: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes, and George was walking down the main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going.

He continued walking down that sidewalk to the next street. He wanted an address. All he could see was the back of the townhomes and he could not see an address. So he asked the dispatcher to have the responding unit call him, and he could tell him the address. So he walked down to the end of the street -- I'm sorry, to the end of the sidewalk to the next street to get an address. He did not know at that time where Trayvon Martin had gone. As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him.

ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address. He was walking back to his vehicle. Trayvon came from his left side, asked him did he have a problem. George said no. At that point Trayvon said well you do now. He punched him in the nose, knocked him to the concrete, and started beating him. George was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. It's clearly him on the tape. There's absolutely no doubt about who it is. A neighbor came, saw what was happening. Saw George being beaten. Heard George yelling for help and the neighbors said he was calling 911. That's what he went inside and did.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1rC33ItCH

From a timeline and measurements I put together the other day in a different discussion at a different place:

From the clubhouse porch where it is thought Trayvon stopped to raise his hood to the corner of the sidewalk where he turned to go home is 412 feet. At a walk it would take a little over a minute and a half to travel. If he started just before 19:12, that would get him to the corner of the sidewalk at 19:13:30. Running of course would be faster and put him there sooner.

GZ's call ended at 19:13:45. From where his truck was parked to the next street past where Trayvon would have turned is 344 feet, then 93 feet back to the corner of the sidewalk. It would have taken GZ over a minute and a half to walk that distance. If GZ left after the end of his call to SPD that would bring him back to the corner at 19:15:10.

The girlfriend's call ended at 19:16. She described hearing Trayvon ask "Why are you following me?" and a man ask "What are you doing here?" So Trayvon had a couple of unaccounted minutes and GZ had not quite a minute unaccounted.

Trayvon's body was found roughly 40 feet up the path - it would take about ten seconds to travel that distance. But let's deal with the couple of minutes that Trayvon "lingered". He thought he had lost his follower, he's talking to his girlfriend. When he gets back to where he's staying, his 13 year old soon to be step brother will be there. I don't know about you, but when I was dating, I didn't want my little sister listening to my calls to boyfriends. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TRAYVON WAS DOING - he was not doing anything illegal. He was talking to his girl - the first and last love of his life, apparently.

We'll never know what GZ was doing with that extra 50 seconds - stalking Trayvon?

I think Trayvon had turned the corner and was spending time before he went back to the townhouse. Then this strange man who'd been following shows up. Exactly what happened in those last forty four seconds of Trayvon's life is known only to George Zimmerman, but from the tone of those screams, Trayvon was being terrorized by this vigilante who then shot him.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Poor eyesight is a real problem, I know I have it. Seeing a hand reaching for something even though it is a cellphone could easily be confused with some one reaching for a weapon. The fright could cause you to tackle the person if thats the only means you have to protect yourself.