17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[princesspjs]

I'm so puzzled about the charging document that justifies the 2nd degree murder charge with the statement that TM was running home with GZ following him (disregarding the instruction "to stop.")

On the call audio, GZ says of the suspicious person: "He's running" at 2:08 into the video, apparently after TM walked toward GZ's position. So TM starts his frightened dash for home at that point.

After GZ is told "We don't need you to do that," and answers, "Okay," GZ does not sound as if he is running in hot murderous pursuit. He calmly continues the call, responding verbally to the call-taker's requests for information (name, address, present location, location where he'll be meeting LE, giving directions, etc.). Around 2:38, (30 seconds after TM started "running home,") GZ is still on the call, providing address/directions, etc. and calmly adds, "He ran." Past tense.

This is what puzzles me: How far was it from GZ's truck to TM's door? How long would it have taken a swiftly running TM to make it home?

Two whole minutes elapse between "He's running" and the end of the call. A good runner can cover a football field in less than 30 seconds. How could GZ have possibly caught up to a young athlete "trying to run home?" I can't make this work time-wise, even assuming GZ were out of his truck trying to regain sight of TM on foot while finishing up the call with LE.

Here is a youtube video of a guy running end zone to end zone at Cowboys stadium in about 20 seconds:
Me running from End Zone to End Zone at Cowboys Stadium in Dallas, Texas - YouTube

I cannot reconstruct any reasonable scenario in which TM, on his way home via the clubhouse area, began running in fear after passing GZ's location (2:08 on the audio recording) but only managed to cover such a short distance before tangling with GZ at least two minutes later. There must be something I'm missing here.

:waitasec:
JMO

If I recall correctly, the girlfriend on the phone with him said something to the effect that Trayvon stopped walking fast after a little bit because he mentioned to her that he didn't see GZ anymore...but right after he said that, Trayvon told her that GZ was right behind him.

In my opinion, I think that GZ may have walked around that first building on the left hand side and caught up to Trayvon along the center walkway between the buildings.

 

[m00c0w]

Speaking of running, I'd really like to know how fast Zimmerman was running as he was hunting Trayvon down. From the 911 call, it sounds like he was going pretty good because of the wind hitting the phone.


~jmo~

I believe it's much more likely that it was windy out (it was raining, after all) than he was running fast enough to produce wind noise like that.

JMO

ETA: Pretty steady 10mph winds in Orlando that day:

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCO/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...y-lawyer-tells/story?id=16123136#.T4dR93po9OU

The records also show that he bought $79.84 worth of items from the jail commissary including soaps, underwear, snacks and a couple of crossword puzzle books.

There was no sign of scarring on the back of his head and the booking photo shows no indication that his nose had been broken in his confrontation with Martin, as Zimmerman's former legal team had claimed.

 

[LolaMoon08]

We also have to remember that it was GZ who told the dispatcher to have LE call him back so he could tell them where he was. IF he was really going back to his truck, he would have told the dispatcher "I'll be in the black truck."

The moment that George Zimmerman had gotten out of that truck with the mindframe that these "*advertiser censored**holes always get away" and that Trayvon was a "*advertiser censored**ing punk" was the moment when George's intentions became clear. He got out of his truck, he followed Trayvon, and IMO, confronted Trayvon. He was not going to let Trayvon get away. I believe that he tried to detain Trayvon and according to Zimmerman's father, Trayvon was trying to get the gun... so Zimmerman had to have made it known that he had a gun for Trayvon to have gone for it.

MOO

 

[uvamerica]

"we do not need you to do that"

these words have been debated so much here.
I take them to mean NO do not continue following.

If I may use an analogy. If we were discussing a case here, and someone says I'm going to sleuth so n so, and a mod answers "we don't need you to do that" (for whatever reason), are you going to continue to sleuth that person and post here on them ? NO ! to me its pretty clear what that phrase means.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I believe it's much more likely that it was windy out (it was raining, after all) than he was running fast enough to produce wind noise like that.

JMO

Why would it be much more likely? I'm not saying that the wind didn't contribute to the noise, but it was obvious that he was moving.

MOO

 

[Desdemona]

This does not look like a small or thin man to me at all. If you watch the video, it's even more apparent that this is a "husky" man.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/ap/florida/raw-video-zimmerman-arrives-at-jail/vGtkL/

What are the odds they had him in a bullet-proof vest?

(ETA: GMTA; I wasn't the first to suggest this.)

 

[suspicious1]

Well, GZ is an adult and why should he have to specifically say, "We don't need you do to do that" for him to clearly understand him? He is not stupid and he claims to know how law enforcement works. "We do not need you to do that". What do you translate that to mean? What other purpose would he have to say that to him other than to mean, "Stop following him"?

LE personnel is there to protect and serve, right?

Why would the only "suggest" that GZ stop following someone that he thought was acting suspicious"? Why would they only "suggest" that GZ stop following someone that he thought was "on drugs and up to no good"?

That dispatcher was doing a job....trying to protect GZ. And IMHO GZ knew that. The fact that GZ continued to follow him made it clear to me that he did not fear for his life and rightfully so since he was packing. Tray was unarmed and that is a FACT.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Matt Gutman ‏ @mattgutmanABC

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Zimmerman did not know he'd be arrested when he went to meet FL law enforcement offiicals yesterdar, per attorney. More on @ABCWorldNews

https://twitter.com/#!/mattgutmanABC

 

[m00c0w]

Why would it be much more likely? I'm not saying that the wind didn't contribute to the noise, but it was obvious that he was moving.

MOO

I've ran plenty, and have not had the pleasure of feeling anything that would produce airflow like that. lol

I think he was hustling... probably jogging. I don't think the wind noise was any indicator of how fast he was going, though. I edited my post up there, and it appears there were pretty steady 10mph winds around Orlando that day.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMCO/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html

 

[raeann]

What are the odds they had him in a bullet-proof vest?

When a suspect is put into a bullet proof vest they have no reason to put it UNDER their clothing! If the suspect needs one for some reason they WANT everyone to know its there! Officers wear theirs underneath clothing because their uniform must SHOW to the public. (This "opinion" came directly from a police officer by the way)


jmo

 

[m00c0w]

LE personnel is there to protect and serve, right?

Why would the only "suggest" that GZ stop following someone that he thought was acting suspicious"? Why would they only "suggest" that GZ stop following someone that he thought was "on drugs and up to no good"?

That dispatcher was doing a job....trying to protect GZ. And IMHO GZ knew that. The fact that GZ continued to follow him made it clear to me that he did not fear for his life and rightfully so since he was packing. Tray was unarmed and that is a FACT.

BBM

A dispatcher is not normally considered law-enforcement. They have not gone through POST certification, and they are not a sworn LEO. JMO

 

[Steft50]

If I am in the process of doing something and my DH or someone else comes along to help and I say, I don't need you to do that, they better back off, cause I am being nice!

I was thinking about this the exact same way. If, as a parent, I tell my child "I don't need you to do that" they better stop doing it. Same thing with other people...

If your pulled over and a cop tells you "I dont need you to do that" are you going to continue to do it?

If a teacher tells you "I don't need you to do that" are you going to continue to do that?

If a firefighter tells you "I don't need you to do that" are you going to continue to do that?

You could do the same thing with anyone and in any scenerio I would think for most they would stop doing what ever it is they are being asked to stop doing. Why would it be different if a 911 operator says the same thing?

imo and such

 

[m00c0w]

When a suspect is put into a bullet proof vest they have no reason to put it UNDER their clothing! If the suspect needs one for some reason they WANT everyone to know its there! Officers wear theirs underneath clothing because their uniform must SHOW to the public. (This "opinion" came directly from a police officer by the way)


jmo

Just pure speculation, but what's to say it would not be his own vest? He does have a bounty on his head...

 

[gitana1]

She won't be Gitana? InSession is stating that she will be in their coverage on TV right now.

The judge conducting today's hearing stated that Jessica Recksiedler will be the presiding judge.

We were talking about two different people. I was talking about the male judge at the hearing today! He won't be the presiding judge:http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/30881895/video.html

So, they already have it assigned? What do we know about her?

 

[kimpage]

Matt Gutman ‏ @mattgutmanABC

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Zimmerman did not know he'd be arrested when he went to meet FL law enforcement offiicals yesterdar, per attorney. More on @ABCWorldNews

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Wow!!!!! Really there goes the idea he turned himself in..IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[LolaMoon08]

I also think that the autopsy is going to show that Trayvon had injuries of his own from being hit by George Zimmerman and this has played a role in why these charges have been brought.

 

[Adrienne37]

We were talking about two different people. I was talking about the male judge at the hearing today! He won't be the presiding judge:http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/30881895/video.html

So, they already have it assigned? What do we know about her?

Thanks!!

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Jessica_Recksiedler

Apparently this is her first year on the bench.

 

[momshrink]

BBM do you have reason to believe that investigators simply review tapes and do not interview the actual participants? Aside from GZ who Spec Pros Corey says was not interviewed I am acting under the belief that witnesses were actually spoken to.

I think GZ would have been spoken to had he not flaked out and gone incommunicado even to his attorneys. From their presser yesterday they spoke of trying to set up the meeting or interview with Ms. Corey and GZ was MIA

Until I hear differently, I am going to believe that investigators actually investigated and spoke to people/witnesses

I read somewhere that the states attorney team interviewed and reinterviewed witnesses. They cannot interview GZ without his attorney present and if they did, his attorney would tell him not to answer anything. Right now the facts are that GZ shot Trayvon dead. Motive and details are still being investigated. I think investigative procedure must be followed.
IMO they had a lot of work to do because of sloppy work on the part of SPD.
All MOO, JMO.

 

[raeann]

Just pure speculation, but what's to say it would not be his own vest? He does have a bounty on his head...

UMMMM....then he would have HAD to remove it to be searched by LE when he was taken into custody.....kind of hard to pat down someone through a bullet proof vest....just saying

especially someone who is known to carry weapons and SHOOT people!!!1