17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[kimpage]

Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

Ok but if that is true Why would GZ state he shot Trayvon and turn the real shooter in...Makes no sense to me....IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[Kimster]

Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

BBM (Bolded By Me)

You are posting just fine. Our members are just curious about how you might have reached some of your conclusions. That's just a part of how we discuss cases and brainstorms ideas. :blowkiss:

 

[tlcya]

Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

We are all about the speculation here so long as we are careful to identify it as such. You are doing fine. and

:welcome5:

 

[octobermoon]

Mark O'mara will be on CNN (not HLN) a little bit later. I think WB said in the next half hour.

 

[princesspjs]

This does not look like a small or thin man to me at all. If you watch the video, it's even more apparent that this is a "husky" man.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/ap/florida/raw-video-zimmerman-arrives-at-jail/vGtkL/

 

[mfcmom]

I am going to go a little off base here regarding the 2nd degree charge. I am thinking that because of the 5lb pull(?) on the gun, gun people are saying that it wouldn't have gone off if it fell out of his waistband or they were wrestling over the gun. Zimmerman would have actually used the thought process of pulling the trigger, along with the kickback (which could account for some of his injury IMO). That simple thought and action right there would account for the depraved indifference that is in the charging statement. Just like you can use premeditation in a few seconds before a murder (although not applicable in this case). Random thoughts, my opinion only.

 

[mommakk51]

Yes he did, and at the time, he may have thought that the person who attacked him was Trayvon. It would stand to reason that he thought it was the same guy that he had seen earlier. Here are 2 more thoughts to ponder regarding this.

1. SOMEone's body lay unidentified in the morgue for 3 days- unless that is just media misinformation-
2. Trayvon was identified that night sometime, and his dad learned of his death the next morning.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

It is an interesting theory but I have thought from TV that it is standard operating procedure to check the ballistics. Would they have charged GZ for TM's death if they didn't have results showing that the bullet that killed TM was from GZ's gun? Certainly not if they had results showing it was from some other gun.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I am going to go a little off base here regarding the 2nd degree charge. I am thinking that because of the 5lb pull(?) on the gun, gun people are saying that it wouldn't have gone off if it fell out of his waistband or they were wrestling over the gun. Zimmerman would have actually used the thought process of pulling the trigger, along with the kickback (which could account for some of his injury IMO). That simple thought and action right there would account for the depraved indifference that is in the charging statement. Just like you can use premeditation in a few seconds before a murder (although not applicable in this case). Random thoughts, my opinion only.

I dont think GZ ever claimed that the gun went off accidentially. I am sure he admits to pulling the trigger.

 

[mfcmom]

I dont think GZ ever claimed that the gun went off accidentially. I am sure he admits to pulling the trigger.

And I guess we will never know if he drew his gun when Trayvon was allegedly running when he pursued him. JMO

 

[Phoenixfla]

And I guess we will never know if he drew his gun when Trayvon was allegedly running when he pursued him. JMO

Possibly not. However in my mind I can't visualize TM being on top of GZ if GZ has flashed a gun. In my opinion if TM see's GZ's gun he is getting out of there.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes he did, and at the time, he may have thought that the person who attacked him was Trayvon. It would stand to reason that he thought it was the same guy that he had seen earlier. Here are 2 more thoughts to ponder regarding this.

1. SOMEone's body lay unidentified in the morgue for 3 days- unless that is just media misinformation-
2. Trayvon was identified that night sometime, and his dad learned of his death the next morning.

JMO

Okay. I'm intrigued and just to make sure I am getting this correct...

Zimmerman spots a black guy acting suspicious... he has to be describing Trayvon because the clothes match perfectly to the call he made to LE.

Trayvon runs and he happens to come across a drug deal? This drug dealer has no choice but to shoot and kill Trayvon because he is a witness.

The drug dealer/shooter then comes into contact with Zimmerman and a fight happens. Zimmerman gets the upper hand and kills the drug dealer/ shooter?

Is this right?

 

[tlcya]

Unfortunately, we have witnesses to the scuffle and to the sounds (yelling/whimpering/calls for help) but no witness to the beginning of when things got physical.

MOO - GZ followed TM

TM said why you following me?

GZ said what are you doing here?

TM says whats it to you?

GZ says cops are on their way, stay put

TM says forget you, you aint nobody to tell me what to do

Someone puts hands on someone (my suspicion is GZ attempts to "detain" the "suspect")

Scuffle ensues

At varying points one and then the other is on top. (witnesses stories not matching up would be explained by this. I feel both GZ aznd TM were probably yelling, explaining none of the witnesses being able to agree on who was yelling what exactly)

GZ ups the ante with a gun.

TM is shot

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Full charging document if it hasn't been posted.



http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

 

[tlcya]

Full charging document if it hasn't been posted.



http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

Thanks doc

Page one - paragraph 5

Martin . . . was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.

The above suggests nobody is buying GZ's TM came up outta nowhere and attacked me story.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Who had legal custody of Trayvon? I'm only asking this because if Trayvon's mother had legal custody of Trayvon, she may have had to be the one to legally identify him and it may have taken her time to get up to Sanford to do this and that may be where the "3 days" at the morgue came from?

If Tracy didn't have legal custody of Trayvon, would he legally be able to identify him? I would think the custodial parent would be the one who had to actually do the indentification or give permission for someone other than them to do the identification? Which would mean papers had to be signed? Right?

 

[momshrink]

I also feel bad for GZ and his family. Not more than I feel bad for Trayvon and his family, but I do think that this could have been prevented?

I think that Frank T. had an obligation to tell the HOA that George was doing his rounds with a loaded gun and that he was having "fed up" issues. Anytime someone is dealing with "fed up" issues, they should immediately take a step back from their position. I've known cops who have had to do this because they were becoming mentally unstable for the job. There have also been times where a cop should have been pulled from active duty and they weren't and tragedy happens.

I think that George has had issues for a very long time. I think he has paranoid issues and I do believe he has an issue with authority where he not only believes he is the law... but above the law. Something that could have been nipped in the bud had he been held accountable for his previous "issues with violence" back when he was younger.

His behavior from the moment he chased another motorist until the moment he shot and killed Trayvon, imo, was a pattern of behavior that was becoming dangerous and we are here today because no one, even in his family, noticed that something was wrong or simply didn't want to believe something was wrong. IMO.

I do pray for GZ and his family. I pray that he can come to terms with what he has done and deal with it in a proper way. He will need counseling for the issues he had that led him to this point. He will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. I do pray for him though. This isn't a case where I think he's a monster... I think he is a danger to those around him right now... but he is not a monster.

MOO

:goodpost:

 

[jjenny]

Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

I really don't think there were two pairs of people fighting, or drug deals going on. Zimmerman admitted he shot Mr. Martin from the start but claims self-defense.

 

[Adrienne37]

Unfortunately, we have witnesses to the scuffle and to the sounds (yelling/whimpering/calls for help) but no witness to the beginning of when things got physical.

MOO - GZ followed TM

TM said why you following me?

GZ said what are you doing here?

TM says whats it to you?

GZ says cops are on their way, stay put

TM says forget you, you aint nobody to tell me what to do

Someone puts hands on someone (my suspicion is GZ attempts to "detain" the "suspect")

Scuffle ensues

At varying points one and then the other is on top. (witnesses stories not matching up would be explained by this. I feel both GZ aznd TM were probably yelling, explaining none of the witnesses being able to agree on who was yelling what exactly)

GZ ups the ante with a gun.

TM is shot

In all honesty, we do not know what they have. I think we got what the SPD wanted us to have when all of the information was posted. It's certainly possible that they have a witness who saw the whole event occur, we just do not know at the moment. Just because they won't come forward in the media doesn't mean they do not exist.


~jmo~

 

[jjenny]

Thanks doc

Page one - paragraph 5

Martin . . . was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.

The above suggests nobody is buying GZ's TM came up outta nowhere and attacked me story.

Well that document sure as **** doesn't have any more info than what we have been discussing all alone.