17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

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Velouria said:
Frankly, I'm surprised Mr. Zimmerman's former attorneys didn't offer it up as proof their client was a victim of shaken baby syndrome.
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Thank the Lord GZ new lawyer appears to have more sense than that!!
 
2goldfish said:
I think the most likely thing is that GZ put his hands on trayvon to "hold" him for the cops, and trayvon might well have struggled, headbutted him, threw the first punch.....trayvon did not KNOW what he know, all he knew was someone stalking him was now putting hands on him and restraining him, I absolutely can see why he "started" it if in fact he did, in my scenario.

GZ didnt expect this to go all to hell like it did. I really pity him for how his crappy issues have ruined his own life as well as taking trayvon's completely. if his site was any indication he only feels sorry for himself too.
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Which leads me to ask... That site is still up and active. What's happening with all that money that's likely still pouring in as we speak?
 
elementary said:
He had 45 days to apologise. He shows no remorse. IMO he feels justified.

This is image rehabilitation. I also hear he wants to do it face to face. He could do it over the phone, but no, it seems that Trayvon's parents would have to come to him. What's wrong with this picture?
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Trying to put the burden of why he can't apologies on Trayvon's parents.

It is all a lie and pure spin.
 
Lovejac said:
That's the first I've heard of GZ actually going to the hospital. Interesting.
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If I recall correctly, it was reported GZ went to the doctor the next day. I do not have a link. I do believe if he did, and if he had a true injury, we would have seen the reports and pictures by now. His previous lawyers had no shame in putting anything/everything out there. JMO
 
elementary said:
He had 45 days to apologise. He shows no remorse. IMO he feels justified.

This is image rehabilitation. I also hear he wants to do it face to face. He could do it over the phone, but no, it seems that Trayvon's parents would have to come to him. What's wrong with this picture?
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I personally don’t listen to NG.
I thing he has not been able to speak to Trayvon’s parents once
They were re-looking at this case. He knew if it goes to court
He has to be quite. Now he won’t be able to do so till after the case is over.
That is how it works. He did not make up the rules.
I do wish the Zimmerman family had extended their condolences to the Martins,
And said something rather than nothing at all.
I imagine (I would not know) that they did not know how to do that while all
the HEAVYS came marching out and have changed a case into a racial march.
So in some way I can see how that happened as it did.
 
I hope the State subpoenas and reviews the condo association's meeting notes. It's possible there are some comments about how the Neighborhood Watch people should craft a SYG defense, should they ever need it.
 
frenchvixen said:
See, GZ has no business having a gun and patrolling and this is why his brother has been adamant that GZ was not on watch that night. So, if he wasn't on watch that night what was he doing in that part of town? He cannot stand his ground where he is not supposed to be especially if he was warned not to do so.

I think once GZ's attorneys review everything they will advise him to take a plea b/c MOM stated last night that GZ will have to take the stand if he is going to use self defense. His story will not be believable when he is asked how did he get from his car to TM if he was not following him or how did TM's body end up steps away from his dad's place if GZ was in his car?
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That's a good point. One I never thought of. If Zimmerman claims he was not following Trayvon, how did he end up so far from his vehicle?

JeannaT said:
It certainly means you can call the cops and keep an eye on someone, and if they assault you and continue to threaten your life/health, you can shoot them.

The problem here is there were no witnesses to the beginning of the physical battle.
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There is one witness - the girlfriend. How valuable she will be is yet to be seen but I feel I learned a lot from what she said she heard.

songline said:
Just 2 points:
George lives in that part of town he did not come from another community to this one :nono:
George saw something ---- I know that if you see something you say something.
I once saw a man trying to lift a wallet out of a lady’s bag...
You bet I grabbed his hand and yelled police.
the wallet fell to the floor and he was apprehended.
I sure could have pretended it was not my business.
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But you saw a crime. Zimmerman did not. Huge difference. All Zimmerman could say was the kid looked like he was on drugs, was balck and seemed "suspicious". That's not a crime.

BTW, good on you for stepping in there!!!!

beach said:
Heck, even I don't go down there. LOL

I tried to read a little bit the other night but I felt myself going straight into mod mode and almost caught myself posting "Y'all gotta be nice to each other no matter what!"

Truth is - that ain't so at all. So, buckle up and strap on the boxing gloves if you push the down button on the WS elevator. ;)

I love peace and that kinda stuff. I'm a no drama kinda girl. I start getting itchy. lol
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I got that the rules are a bit more lax down there so i prefer up here, even if that means the mods have to keep me in line now and then! I like a productive discussion, not too much rage, emotion, accusations.
 
Thank goodness I was talking to my grandson and missed FT. What new and interesting things did he have to say?
 
JeannaT said:
I don't know that we'll ever know for sure. There aren't any impartial witnesses to the beginning of the physical fight that I'm aware of.

What we do know, is that GZ was carrying a gun and it seems highly unlikely that he would begin a physical fight with his fists if he had a gun in his waistband.

I'm left with the only other conclusion - Trayvon started it.
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You could be right, we will probably never know for sure what happened to start the physical attacks.

I do feel however that one of the most obvious explainations is very simple. is that GZ, by his own words felt these guys are always getting away and he was, imo, determined that it wasn't going to happen again so he attempted to restrain Trayvon and Trayvon fought back. That would lead me to believe GZ started it.

I'd like to understand why some feel this is not an option.

bbm, imo and all that.
 
suzihawk said:
Which leads me to ask... That site is still up and active. What's happening with all that money that's likely still pouring in as we speak?
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JMO/IMO etc...
Maybe some of it going help with the brother's PR tour.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
Trying to put the burden of why he can't apologies on Trayvon's parents.

It is all a lie and pure spin.
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NOT so... IT IS TRUE.
I saw a video where a lawyer...maybe Mark Geragos (Not sure)
who said something similar to what I said above your post the one I am quoting.
 
gitana1 - I just have to thank you, for all your well thought out posts. They are refreshing. Thank you.
 
 
beach said:
I am going to try to explain this the best way I know how.

Zimmerman will most certainly claim that he was within his rights citing the SYG law. In the legal world, that is considered an affirmative defense.

Think of it this way, insanity is also an affirmative defense. If a defendant claims they are innocent by reason of insanity, the burden shifts to the defendant to PROVE that they are insane.


Same thing with SYG. The defendant has to put on evidence (in this case it will have to be testimony) that supports GZ's claim that he felt his life was in imminent danger, so therefore he had a right to shoot.
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ThoughtFox said:
Thanks to all the many people who have explained this tonight! I understand the whole process so much better now. :)

It's just common sense that George would have to explain in his own words what happened because the Jury has to prove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. How can they decide that without hearing George's story in his own words?
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Ack! I realized I left out a very important part here!

This is how it will play out -

Mark O'Mara will at some point claim immunity. (claiming that GZ is immune from prosecution per the SYG law). Then the judge will order an evidentiary hearing. Kind of a mini-bench trial. No jury, just a bench trial where the judge will hear testimony and rebuttal by the prosecutors. The burden is much lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt". The judge's burden will be considered by a "preponderance of the evidence". The judge will weigh the evidence presented and decide if GZ is immune from further prosecution.

IF she finds that he meets the burden, the case will be thrown out. It will NEVER go before a jury.

IF she finds that he does not meet the burden, then GZ will be prosecuted and there will be a jury trial. He can still claim self-defense and present his claim before a jury of his peers.


This is actually very good news for GZ. He gets 2 bites of the apple, so to speak. Even if the judge rules against him at the evidentiary hearing, he may still sway the jury and convince them he was acting in self-defense.
 
Yay! I see gitana here! An attorney! :woohoo:

Clean up my mess girlfriend! :lol:
 
JeannaT said:
I don't know that we'll ever know for sure. There aren't any impartial witnesses to the beginning of the physical fight that I'm aware of.

What we do know, is that GZ was carrying a gun and it seems highly unlikely that he would begin a physical fight with his fists if he had a gun in his waistband.

I'm left with the only other conclusion - Trayvon started it.
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That totally makes sense to me - it is what I think too.
 
 
songline said:
NOT so... IT IS TRUE.
I saw a video where a lawyer...maybe Mark Geragos (Not sure)
who said something similar to what I said above your post the one I am quoting.
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No it is not true. He has said all along it was self defense or SYG. There is nothing he could apologies for period. He could offer his condolences but he can not apologies and never will.

It is pure spin trying to make people think he is sorry about it.
 
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