17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #28

[AngelWings444]

BBM

But from what I understood from the attorneys on HLN today, the state had to answer with any evidence they had today about certain questions when asked. They cannot legally withhold any evidence when the defense asks for it. In other words, they are locked into some of their answers today.

Sometimes, the TH's, I mean attorney's on HLN will just say "stuff". We have seen it time and time again, and they have been proven wrong, time and time again. It was a bond hearing, nothing more, nothing less.

Even if this particular investigator didn't have knowledge of these things today, doesn't mean they don't exist. The questions could have been asked in a manner in which these were the only answers he could give at the time.

Only time will tell.

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBM

But from what I understood from the attorneys on HLN today, the state had to answer with any evidence they had today about certain questions when asked. They cannot legally withhold any evidence when the defense asks for it. In other words, they are locked into some of their answers today.

How can they ask questioned when there has been no discovery disclosed yet? It's not as simple as "asking for" the evidence. It has to go through the proper channels. When the defense gets all the documented evidence through discovery, I would think that is when these questions would come into play and they would have to answer to it?

Right?

 

[CHICANA]

I clearly think you have it backwards and like I said, I think AC and her office agrees with my assertion.

I respect that you have your opinion, but what you are seeing "clearly" is not clear at all. Not even close.

Again, GZ's injuries do not prove that he was attacked first, they do not show that he wasn't the aggressor, they do not show what his intentions were, they do not show that he did not approach Trayvon with his gun drawn, etc..etc...etc...:banghead:

His injuries don't show that he was the aggressor either.

 

[LynnM]

I didn't know the actual shooting was recorded in GZ's 911 call. GZ said he was reaching for his phone to call 911 when he was attacked.

The shooting was recorded on more than one 911 call from residents. It was not recorded on GZ's call to the non-emergency line.

 

[grandmaj]

BBM

But from what I understood from the attorneys on HLN today, the state had to answer with any evidence they had today about certain questions when asked. They cannot legally withhold any evidence when the defense asks for it. In other words, they are locked into some of their answers today.

They did. They said the evidence does not support the event as described.

MOM did not ask what that evidence was. He stopped short of that. Instead he asked if the injury might be consistent with..........

No one with-held evidence. That evidence will be shared in discovery with the defense.

 

[LolaMoon08]

And if this was self defense, GZ is a victim.
He has not been convicted.

We can't forget about that either.

As of right now, George Zimmerman has been charge with 2nd degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin. That makes George an accused murderer and Trayvon as his victim.

Until George Zimmerman has been cleared of any charges in the death of Trayvon Martin, he is not a victim.

MOO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The story says this picture was taken 3 minutes after the shooting, but according to Officer Timothy Smith, he had arrived at 7:17 and almost immediately cuffed GZ. Officer Ayalla who arrived at 7:19 said Officer Smith had GZ in custody. TM was shot between 7:16 and 7:17 according to every timeline I've seen, certainly before Officer Smith arrived.

So the claim in the article is that the photo was taken at approximately 7:20? Shouldn't GZ be in cuffs as described ("in custody") in Officer Ayalla's report?

This photo, even if taken at face value, adds MORE questions - did the officers lie in their reports? As you said, who let some random person into the crime scene area and have access to a suspect supposedly "in custody" at that point? Why isn't the person "in custody" cuffed as indicated in the police reports? :waitasec:

Who was it that said this photo seems hinky? I've got to agree!

IMO, JMO, etc. since all I have are questions at this time!

IIRC the time stamp on the photo was 7:19 (and some seconds)

I have no idea who took the picture.
I don't know who allowed it.

It was pretty quick after the shot.

Maybe the person who took the picture was already at the scene and took the photo after LE got there but before the scene was cleared.

 

[m00c0w]

Why is the upper limit of the bloodied area straight horizontally? Was he wearing a baseball cap?
The top of his head above the red border is whited out.

I don't know if this has been answered, but it just looks like it was blown out because of the flash.

JMO

 

[Melanie]

The initial police report said clearly GZ was bleeding from his nose and back of his head.

The marks on the new picture line up with the marks some see on the police video.

There are medical records backing up the claim that GZ's nose was broken.

IMO its clear he was getting his arse whooped when he pulled that trigger.

I say GZ was acting in self defense and it is my opinion, as of now, there will be no 2nd degree murder conviction.
IMO there is no way 12 jurors will find him guilty.

JMO

Against popular opinion, I have to say I agree with you (no tomatoes please). The relatively low bond (IMHO) is also another reason I feel this way. He'll need what, 15K to get out? I'm sure he'll have some supporters, or his family, put that up.

Boy, I'd hate to be one of the 12 jurors. If they come back with a NG verdict - can you imagine the outcry? Their lives would never be the same - no thank you! I just don't see how Zimmerman is going to get a fair trial with 12 impartial jurors...but who knows.

MOO

Mel

 

[cityslick]

LOL, look at it ever how you see best my friend. We've posted together long enough to believe that we both want the truth, whatever it may be.

BTW, since you've lined up that laceration, any thoughts on how he got so much hair back 36 minutes later? :floorlaugh:

BBM

Agree with you there

The hair comparison is also not exactly fair, we agree that the video still is enhanced. Plus its of a lower resolution than the photo on the right.

 

[katydid23]

Seems that way, doesn't it?

Before all the posts come sailing that the investigator said this morning that he was shot in the chest, let me ask you something. If you were told that a victim had been shot in the head, does that imply a direction of the shot? What about if shot in the leg, arm, foot, etc. Do any of those terms dictate direction of the shot?

As long as a bullet goes into the head, the victim has been shot in the head. Isn't it at least, something to consider that for whatever reason may be, the SA could be viewed as saying the bullet went into the chest cavity, albeit from behind, so therefore he was shot in the chest?

IDK, I'm just reading what the same "eyewitness" who allegedly took this newest picture has said. If TM was shot from the front, how'd this person clearly see GSR on TM as he was lying face down unless he was shot in the back?

The prosecution clearly KNOWS whether the victim was shot in the chest or in the back. There is no way in the world they would say he was shot in the chest if it was actually from the back. NO WAY. The ME, the homicide detectives, the state investigators and the prosecution team, ALL of them have seen the evidence and would know the difference.

 

[redkatrampant]

TM may have been defending himself from an attack by GZ. TM is the victim here, don't forget that important fact.

I just realized something and it is not going to be popular. It is what it is though.(and jaded I am NO way attacking you or your post,just bouncing off here).
I think what we forget, is that in our system, TM is NOT necessarily the victim. Oh, he is A victim. But whether it be of murder or circumstance is up to a jury of our peers( I know,I know.) When looking at it in that light, it kinda unmuddies things for me. I will need more info before I can be nudged off my fence.
again,JMO

 

[francie]

Finally caught up!!

The picture:

1) Why was some random person allowed inside a crimescene to take a picture of George's head? Since when are random people allowed to go up to people who are suspects in a crime and get close enough to take a picture... like right up on him and take a picture?

2) I thought SPD held George by gunpoint until they could handcuff him, but he is not handcuffed in this picture? You can see the cell phone in his hand?

3) Was this picture taken before LE arrived?? Who took it??

So weird??

Also, I could care less about George's injuries! Never cared before. Don't care now!

Where was Frank Taaffe that night?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

As of right now, George Zimmerman has been charge with 2nd degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin. That makes George an accused murderer and Trayvon as his victim.

Until George Zimmerman has been cleared of any charges in the death of Trayvon Martin, he is not a victim.

MOO

I disagree. If it was self defense, he has been a victim since day one.
No matter how he is looked at by others.

 

[m00c0w]

How is anybody 'seeing' gunshot residue anyway?
When I go to the range I don't 'see' residue on my hands even after going through 6 boxes of ammo. I sure DO smell the GSR for a while, no matter how may times I wash my hands, but geez, I don't remember ever 'seeing' any GSR on my hands or clothes.

Anybody else?

Nope. I've brought this up here before. I've shot hundreds of rounds at one time and no one would have been any the wiser based on appearance alone.

 

[uvamerica]

The story says this picture was taken 3 minutes after the shooting, but according to Officer Timothy Smith, he had arrived at 7:17 and almost immediately cuffed GZ. Officer Ayalla who arrived at 7:19 said Officer Smith had GZ in custody. TM was shot between 7:16 and 7:17 according to every timeline I've seen, certainly before Officer Smith arrived.

So the claim in the article is that the photo was taken at approximately 7:20? Shouldn't GZ be in cuffs as described ("in custody") in Officer Ayalla's report?

This photo, even if taken at face value, adds MORE questions - did the officers lie in their reports? As you said, who let some random person into the crime scene area and have access to a suspect supposedly "in custody" at that point? Why isn't the person "in custody" cuffed as indicated in the police reports? :waitasec:

Who was it that said this photo seems hinky? I've got to agree!

IMO, JMO, etc. since all I have are questions at this time!

It also appears in the pic that GZ is talking on a cell phone, you can see the top of the phone at his ear, and his arm is in this position, how can this be unless someone was there before LE ?
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

 

[LolaMoon08]

IIRC the time stamp on the photo was 7:19 (and some seconds)

I have no idea who took the picture.
I don't know who allowed it.

It was pretty quick after the shot.

Maybe the person who took the picture was already at the scene and took the photo after LE got there but before the scene was cleared.

But why wasn't George handcuffed? Police say they held George at gunpoint and handcuffed him. He is not handcuffed in this photograph?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

GZ is no longer considered a victim on this forum. GZ is still alive, TM is dead. TM is the only victim here. If you don't care for my opinion, check with the mods.

My exact words were
IF this is self defense.
IF being the operative word.

 

[gxm]

I clearly think you have it backwards and like I said, I think AC and her office agrees with my assertion.

I respect that you have your opinion, but what you are seeing "clearly" is not clear at all. Not even close.

Again, GZ's injuries do not prove that he was attacked first, they do not show that he wasn't the aggressor, they do not show what his intentions were, they do not show that he did not approach Trayvon with his gun drawn, etc..etc...etc...:banghead:

Yes. Nothing is clear. And the prosecutor's case appears to be built entirely on speculation and conclusory statements. "Not clear at all" benefits the defense, not the prosecution.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[suzihawk]

I'm at work and trying desperately to catch up. Have been filled in a little by a thougttful and helpful friend.

I'm just sick at heart over hearing that the Judge allowed the accused to FORCE an apology upon the victim's family. They clearly made their wishes known that they did not want an apology from him until AFTER a conviction - and maybe not even then. That's the most disrespectful thing I've heard of in a very long time. Lower than a snake's belly.

I've lost all respect for Mr. O'Mara. And some for the Judge as well. He (the Judge) should never have allowed most of that BS at a BOND hearing. Clearly Mr. O'Mara needs to defend his client, but he stooped pretty low today. He encouraged the family 'witnesses' to speak of things that had nothing to do with BOND and to to glowingly testify about things having no place at this type of hearing. Again, the Judge should have called a halt to it.

I'm sick that poor little scared Geoge is out on bond (because daddy can't afford to pay?) while Trayvon is lying dead in a mausoleum.

I hear Tracy and Sybrina were very upset at the press conference after. I can tell you this... had I been forced to sit there and listen to the man that killed my child dead pontificating and lying on the stand about what happened and being forced to listen to an apology I didn't want, you all would be seeing me on one of those courtrrom brawl programs where I went over the rail after his pathetic a$$. They show more restraint than I ever could. God bless them.

:furious: