17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[impatientredhead]

These quotes are very sad and scary imo.
Basically what the stabbing case means to me is that coldblooded murder is now legal in Florida, and that if you get into trouble because you recklessly disregard everyone's safety you can legally kill people to avoid the consequences of your actions.

This case will be used to change the wording of the rule, but as it currently stands and has been applied across 200 plus cases he will probably see immunity granted. If not the first time, on appeal.

They can't change how the law is interpreted and applied, they have set precedents. They will have to rewrite it to exclude future Zimmermans from walking.:moo:

 

[annalia]

he was going to get bond no matter what, it was a given. why show their hand over something that was going to happen anyway?
the State knew this was a bond hearing, not the trial.

BBM

Agreed

The TH's jumped all over this, it's what they do, next week they'll be jumping all over something else in this case. NG blasts prosecutors suddenly she's credible, lol, next week she'll be blasting someone else.

On JVM there was a former prosecutor on, don't know his name, who basically said what you're saying. Paraphrasing, take a step back, the prosecutor did just fine, it was a bond hearing, they pretty much knew he would get bond, the case hasn't been decided on this one bond hearing. What will be important is the next hearing. Of course then there were defense attorneys who disagree.

One thing I found really interesting, while watching some shows yesterday, were some comments about GZ wearing a suit which is rarely done at bond hearings, some saying that it was a good move on MOM's part, it's all about perception. I found that odd considering how Trayvon's parents were blasted for putting out a picture that was only a few years old, with claims that they were intentionally trying to hide something. Not really that important in the grand scheme of things, just found it interesting.

JMHO

 

[saguaro]

it should, we should all hope it does. On both sides I've read people here saying we don't know the whole story, and we don't. If you're all up on high fivin' Mr Zimmerman or if you're wanting justice for Mr Martin's family, how can we not want the truth to come out in trial. none of what's played in the press, and both sides have, is the truth. A trial will show the whole picture, whose words fitthe time, who lied, who didn't, what was done and what fits the conclusion. I hope it goes to trial so that we have truth to go off not the media silliness we've gotten so far. A young man died at the hands of another, Trayvon deserves to have the truth come out at trial, no matter the outcome.

I don't get the high fivin' part.

I don't think anyone is high fivin' GZ in my opinion.

Justice for all involved is what I hope for.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I am not sure how effective the suit was. He did look nice sitting there like he was in church but there was a shocking moment there when he stood up and showed all that jailhouse bling and then having to waddle to the stand.

Not sure why MOM could not get rid of the shackles.

 

[Donjeta]

I am not sure how effective the suit was. He did look nice sitting there like he was in church but there was a shocking moment there when he stood up and showed all that jailhouse bling and then having to waddle to the stand.

Not sure why MOM could not get rid of the shackles.

Yeah, someone can be let out to roam free in the society because he is not a danger to the community but in the courtroom he needs all that because he might attack someone with everyone watching?

 

[cityslick]

Of course they knew he was going to get bond. The state's stipulation was that he be required to wear an ankle bracelet. People think that Zimmerman won a big round in court yesterday but sadly it's not the case. The prosecution made it through the entire hearing without revealing anything they have in evidence. Just like I said, Zimmerman's goose is cooked and with his self-serving "apology" and his contradictory statements under examination by Bernie De La Rionda, I can't wait until we get to trial. Hmmm, second degree murder carries a life sentence. How in the world is Zimmerman going to spend the rest of his life behind bars??


~jmo~

I wouldn't think in terms of absolutes about whether he'll be convicted or not until the verdict is read. The last case where everyone thought in terms of absolutes, well, we know how that went. And IMO, that case was about a thousand times more of a slam dunk then this case is.

 

[Nova]

Actually for me, it made me 100% more convinced that he's guilty and certainly explains to me why the prosecutors filed second degree murder charges against him. I've no doubt that he has a depraved mind and certainly proved that to me today beyond a reasonable doubt.



~jmo~

Adrienne, perhaps one of the lawyers here will correct me, but I don't believe the "depraved mind" of Florida statues is an ongoing psychiatric condition like schizophrenia.

I think it refers to the killer's state of mind in the instant of the killing.

In California, it's called "depraved indifference" and means the defendant took an action that he knew or should have known had a high likelihood of causing death or grave bodily injury.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. But the way your post is worded, it sounds like you think "depraved mind" is a mental disorder or character flaw.

 

[Donjeta]

THe jury selection might be very difficult here.

 

[Concerned Papa]

BBM

Agreed

The TH's jumped all over this, it's what they do, next week they'll be jumping all over something else in this case. NG blasts prosecutors suddenly she's credible, lol, next week she'll be blasting someone else.

On JVM there was a former prosecutor on, don't know his name, who basically said what you're saying. Paraphrasing, take a step back, the prosecutor did just fine, it was a bond hearing, they pretty much knew he would get bond, the case hasn't been decided on this one bond hearing. What will be important is the next hearing. Of course then there were defense attorneys who disagree.

One thing I found really interesting, while watching some shows yesterday, were some comments about GZ wearing a suit which is rarely done at bond hearings, some saying that it was a good move on MOM's part, it's all about perception. I found that odd considering how Trayvon's parents were blasted for putting out a picture that was only a few years old, with claims that they were intentionally trying to hide something. Not really that important in the grand scheme of things, just found it interesting.

JMHO

I'm not sure what the talking head geniuses think the State should have said at a Bond Hearing, LOL. Do they have no idea of the impact of what was being said in this exchange?

O'MARA: Ok. Besides that any other evidence to support your conclusion that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow?

GILBREATH: We have Mr. Zimmerman's statements, we have the shell casings and we had Mr. Martin's body.

Gilbreath clearly said "We have Mr. Zimmerman's statement", (saying he only followed TM for 18 seconds) "We have the shell casing" (from Zimmerman's gun), and "We have Mr. Martin's body" ( located 233 feet from Zimmerman's vehicle).

Unless you believe it's possible to walk 233 feet in 18 seconds, what else does anyone think is needed to prove he continued to follow Trayvon? :waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

Adrienne, perhaps one of the lawyers here will correct me, but I don't believe the "depraved mind" of Florida statues is an ongoing psychiatric condition like schizophrenia.

I think it refers to the killer's state of mind in the instant of the killing.

In California, it's called "depraved indifference" and means the defendant took an action that he knew or should have known had a high likelihood of causing death or grave bodily injury.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. But the way your post is worded, it sounds like you think "depraved mind" is a mental disorder or character flaw.

BBM.
Apparently they don't care about that in Florida.

I liked this part on that last link:

"There is not an exception to the law that says if you're doing something stupid, or risky, or not in your best interest, that 'stand your ground' doesn't apply," Romine said.

 

[Nova]

Could be tricky if the defense won't agree to lesser included offenses. A jury may have to decide on 2nd degree or acquittal. I'm not sure it works that way in Fla. but it does in some other states. JMO

Maybe a legal type can weigh in.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe the parties can either agree on lesser included offenses OR a judge can decide a reasonable person might opt for one or more lesser offenses and order that the jury be given the option. This decision can be made or changed at any time up to the giving of the final jury instructions. (I.e., the judge can change his mind after hearing the evidence.)

 

[Adrienne37]

Adrienne, perhaps one of the lawyers here will correct me, but I don't believe the "depraved mind" of Florida statues is an ongoing psychiatric condition like schizophrenia.

I think it refers to the killer's state of mind in the instant of the killing.

In California, it's called "depraved indifference" and means the defendant took an action that he knew or should have known had a high likelihood of causing death or grave bodily injury.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. But the way your post is worded, it sounds like you think "depraved mind" is a mental disorder or character flaw.

Thanks, I'm well aware of what a depraved mind is and in the context of my post that you quoted, I stated that I can see why he was charged under the second degree murder with a depraved mind meaning that is he morally corrupt, morally bad or debased; corrupt; perverted.

Murder with a Depraved Mind
Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/homicide/second-degree-murder.html

~jmo~

 

[Nova]

How would you convince a jury that you were not out to kill someone when you loaded your gun with hollow-point bullets and then fire into someone's chest? You know they are not going to survive and it's possible at that point you may not want them to and make that decision to aim for the chest. To me the decision to put a hollow-point into a gun is the difference from just wanting to stop someone from hurting you to making it permanent. That once you make the decision to fire the gun it will be to kill someone. jmo

True, but the way the law is worded (not just SYG, but justifiable homicide), if you are in fear for your life, you are allowed to use deadly force and kill your attacker. You are under no obligation to try to wound-but-not-kill--because the law (just like police procedure) recognizes that is a requirement that is apt to get you killed. There simply isn't time for such delicacy in a life-or-death situation.

 

[Aedrys]

Yeah, someone can be let out to roam free in the society because he is not a danger to the community but in the courtroom he needs all that because he might attack someone with everyone watching?

Well, gosh darn, he doesn't need those chains anymore, what with no gun, a GPS monitor, and a curfew! He is so safe for society with all of those things in place, he can live out of state even. *eyeroll*

 

[Dr.Fessel]

True, but the way the law is worded (not just SYG, but justifiable homicide), if you are in fear for your life, you are allowed to use deadly force and kill your attacker. You are under no obligation to try to wound-but-not-kill--because the law (just like police procedure) recognizes that is a requirement that is apt to get you killed. There simply isn't time for such delicacy in a life-or-death situation.

BBM

Reasonable fear for your life.

 

[Aedrys]

BBM

Reasonable fear for your life.

I can't wait to see how GZ's lawyers explain how his fear of unarmed 17 year old in a hoodie was reasonable. :maddening:

 

[RANCH]

I think that Mark O'Mara scored big with his questioning of investigator Dale Gilbreath.

(AP) — By questioning a state investigator on the witness stand during a routine bail hearing, George Zimmerman's defense attorney showed some of the weaknesses in prosecutors' claims that the neighborhood watch volunteer committed second-degree murder, legal experts say.

http://news.yahoo.com/experts-zimmerman-attorney-made-smart-move-072305753.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I can't wait to see how GZ's lawyers explain how his fear of unarmed 17 year old in a hoodie was reasonable. :maddening:

The only thing they have is GZ's word and I think the SA has plenty of evidence to prove GZ's word is no good.

 

[CHICANA]

BBM

Reasonable fear for your life.

As his head was being pounded on the ground, he had no way of knowing if the person attacking him was capable of killing him or not. Couldn't TM have called 911 to report the person following him ? Was it really reasonable that he attacked GZ if that's what happened ?

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, said after the hearing that his client was responding to an interview in which Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said she wanted to hear from the man who shot her son.