17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Sensei]

Is not up to the court to read anything more into the probable cause affidavit other than what it contains. For the same reason, evidence that GZ was acting in self defense SHOULD HAVE been included.

Except that the ONLY evidence that GZ was acting in self defense is GZ's statement....there is NO physical evidence that shows that GZ was in fact under attack and in fear of his life so how could they put that in. There were supposedly wounds but those do not show WHO struck who and how the fight started or even who was actually winning since Trayvon is DEAD. So what actual physical evidence would you suggest that they include?

 

[Gin]

You must not be reading all of my posts. I stated very clearly that gated communities are different. But in all of them, to some degree, there is a greater awareness of "outsiders" than there is in most public neighborhoods, and, in particular, a righteousness associated with this awareness. The fact is that all gated communities are private property (if the streets are public, then the streets cannot be closed to the public). That makes a huge difference in mentality and behavior that stems from the mentality. After all, anyone in a gated community who is not a resident or a guest, is trespassing on private property, which is a legal violation. This is why someone is much more likely to be considered "suspicious" simply because he is not recognized in a gated community than in a public neighborhood, and why someone is much more likely to call the police and follow someone who is unrecognized/suspicious in a gated community than in a public community, and why the police would even respond to a call like that when made in a gated community.

But that doesn't mean that all gated communities are the same, of course.

JMO/IMO
And with all due respect, it's incorrect to state that "anyone in a gated community who is not a resident or a guest, is trespassing on private property, which is a legal violation."
Each community has it's own individual rules and regulations. Some post rules along the lines you outline, others don't. They have door to door salespeople show up, etc.

I diagree with you that because someone has a perimeter fence they are more likely to profile a "stranger" and call the police. Most people call the police because they see something that they believe is reportable. "Gee, I think I see a stranger" doesn't meet that benchmark for many people.

Finally, gated communites are high density. People are selling, renting all the time. Folks move in, folks move out, and frankly most people have better things to do than keep careful tabs on neighbors that they barely know, anyway.

 

[HiHater]

You must not be reading all of my posts. I stated very clearly that gated communities are different. But in all of them, to some degree, there is a greater awareness of "outsiders" than there is in most public neighborhoods, and, in particular, a righteousness associated with this awareness. The fact is that all gated communities are private property (if the streets are public, then the streets cannot be closed to the public). That makes a huge difference in mentality and behavior that stems from the mentality. After all, anyone in a gated community who is not a resident or a guest, is trespassing on private property, which is a legal violation. This is why someone is much more likely to be considered "suspicious" simply because he is not recognized in a gated community than in a public neighborhood, and why someone is much more likely to call the police and follow someone who is unrecognized/suspicious in a gated community than in a public community, and why the police would even respond to a call like that when made in a gated community.

But that doesn't mean that all gated communities are the same, of course.

From reading the articles linked, and this, I see gated community mentality as yet another stereotype. :moo:

 

[cityslick]

I guess I understand. So, the fact that no other injuries are mentioned with regard to Trayvon, is that just as important?

It should be if there were any.

 

[LolaMoon08]

ive been doing a lot of research into the other case in sanford, with the collison kid, ever since the commissioners meeting. A lot of the things there really opened my eyes a lil to the way spd handled the gz matter.
look at the comments section below this article. Notice the first comment. What a coincidence huh??? imo!
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...of-sanford-police-lieutenant-turns-himself-in

:what::what::what:

Oh. My. God.

Could it be??

 

[Hermione]

<snipped for brevity>
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

So, George Zimmerman is sorry for the loss of their son according to his court apology, he did not know how young he was? Also, he does not "want" to get out of the area before the shooting?

To me, his own words are more telling than anything else. I read "this kid" as indicating that GZ at least guessed Trayvon to still be a teen...and the last statement I read as "I want to keep following him", period. I mean if you are 80 years old, you might call *GZ* a "kid"....but when you are GZ's age, you are probably not referring to Trayvon as "this kid" if you are at all thinking he's close to you in age...seems like GZ knew he was a teen, he probably did not know if he was 19, 18, 15....but he recognized that he was not his own age of upper 20s. SMH...

 

[Phoenixfla]

We know Zimmerman is walking or running or moving around. He is having a conversation on the phone with the dispatcher. No matter where someone was hiding they would not hear Zimmerman say all the following stuff he said and they would not be hearing the dispatcher. So what would hearing a person say an address mean to someone in hiding? Why would that mean anything? Things Zimmerman said bolded and for the person to hear all of that he would have to be following Zimmerman in hiding all the way. Seriously did he think Martin was over in the bushes with a pen and notebook writing everything down he said? Did he think Martin had some kind of special power to hear what the dispatcher was saying? This really sounds like some kind of serious paranoia to me. IMO


Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

The part I find interesting in that call is that he indicated he would meet the officer at his truck, further evidence he did not go too far from his truck.

 

[HiHater]

Except that the ONLY evidence that GZ was acting in self defense is GZ's statement....there is NO physical evidence that shows that GZ was in fact under attack and in fear of his life so how could they put that in. There were supposedly wounds but those do not show WHO struck who and how the fight started or even who was actually winning since Trayvon is DEAD. So what actual physical evidence would you suggest that they include?

The state may have even found evidence that GZ's "injuries" were not inflicted by Trayvon. (kickback, fall, etc) JMO

 

[Donjeta]

That is an opinion piece, just like us

Yes, that is why I said it's a column...

An interesting opinion, IMO.

 

[HiHater]

The part I find interesting in that call is that he indicated he would meet the officer at his truck, further evidence he did not go too far from his truck.

Yet he still needed them to call and see where he's at? If he wasn't going far from his truck, that phone call would be unnecessary, because he would SEE them.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Except that the ONLY evidence that GZ was acting in self defense is GZ's statement....there is NO physical evidence that shows that GZ was in fact under attack and in fear of his life so how could they put that in. There were supposedly wounds but those do not show WHO struck who and how the fight started or even who was actually winning since Trayvon is DEAD. So what actual physical evidence would you suggest that they include?

Does there have to be an physical evidence?

 

[cityslick]

Except that the ONLY evidence that GZ was acting in self defense is GZ's statement....there is NO physical evidence that shows that GZ was in fact under attack and in fear of his life so how could they put that in. There were supposedly wounds but those do not show WHO struck who and how the fight started or even who was actually winning since Trayvon is DEAD. So what actual physical evidence would you suggest that they include?

I said it before but that's going to be GZ's biggest issue with self defense (and perhaps has something to do with MOM's comments about using SYG). Because if there really are no witnesses that actually saw the confrontation start, how do you prove someone attacked you first? What extent of injuries must you sustain that proves that you really were in fear and had to shoot someone?

Apparently it's worked before because I've seen other cases linked where people got off via SYG and the circumstances were not all that dissimilar to this one.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I guess I understand. So, the fact that no other injuries are mentioned with regard to Trayvon, is that just as important?

What injuries?

 

[magnolia]

I think it would be difficult for Zimmerman to give a lot of thought to those options, if Trayvon was on top of him, had him pinned down, continually banging his head into the concrete. His focus would be on trying to prevent a severe brain/head injury that could have possibly lead to death. IMO

I think his focus would be fighting.

It's very difficult, if not impossible to fight someone who is sitting on top of you, and has you pinned down. Especially a person 6'3" tall, weighing 160 lbs. IMO

 

[belle3]

:what::what::what:

Oh. My. God.

Could it be??

I know, right???

 

[LolaMoon08]

The part I find interesting in that call is that he indicated he would meet the officer at his truck, further evidence he did not go too far from his truck.

GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck

No where does it say that GZ will be with that truck when LE sees it. He does not say he would meet them at his truck. He said they will see his truck.

MOO

 

[Phoenixfla]

We're talking about SPD here. I would not be surprised if that gun has been completely contaminated. Not because they did it on purpose (maybe?) but because they obviously lack in any real training.

MOO

No one is questioning who fired the gun. Im sure GZs prints are all over it.

 

[annalia]

Except that the ONLY evidence that GZ was acting in self defense is GZ's statement....there is NO physical evidence that shows that GZ was in fact under attack and in fear of his life so how could they put that in. There were supposedly wounds but those do not show WHO struck who and how the fight started or even who was actually winning since Trayvon is DEAD. So what actual physical evidence would you suggest that they include?

And if the state has the evidence that those lacerations were inconsistent with his claims, why would they put that in the affidavit, if they haven't included the evidence that showed the inconsistencies?

I get the kudos and accolades to Alan Dershowitz, but has he always been right in everything he's said and done, especially when it's said as a talking head? I don't think so.

I thought there was discussion about how these probable cause affidavits are normally barebones.

We will certainly see in a few months though, if there is a SYG hearing.
JMHO

 

[Adrienne37]

It seems to me that all of this discussion regarding "gated communities" and the mentality of such residents is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Travyon was an invited guest at the complex where he was staying. Zimmerman was a renter there. I think those facts have been well established. Zimmerman was the self-appointed neighborhood watch captain who had zero authority over anything that took place in that community. If he saw suspicious behavior, he should have reported it, that was the extent of what he was supposed to do. The SPD neighborhood watch program guidelines do not say that it is okay to profile suspicious activity, to follow people, chase people down, and certainly not murder them.



~jmo~

 

[cityslick]

:what::what::what:

Oh. My. God.

Could it be??

Could it be what?