17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Adrienne37]

Wanted to repost a new site that we were allowed to link too late last night that has more about SYG.


http://www.husseinandwebber.com/stand_your_ground.html

 

[dunlurken]

Maybe Zimmerman's paranoia will get the best of him while he's out on bail. It must be awful to know you have to look over your shoulder every minute of the day to make sure there isn't someone standing there with a gun ready to blow your brains out. I think it is this paranoia that he suffers from that will continue to be his downfall. He want be able to keep his silence for very long.


~jmo~

I tend to agree with this, unless he's a true scaredy cat. I guess we will have to wait and see how things progress. Justice for both Trayvon and George. He can't carry a gun anymore, so he may just hunker down and try to be elusive.

So many things make me wonder about this case. They won't let the police chief resign? Why? Is LE covering their own tracks and trying to make themselves "look" better because they boggled this from day one? Too little too late.

 

[Sensei]

Maybe Zimmerman's paranoia will get the best of him while he's out on bail. It must be awful to know you have to look over your shoulder every minute of the day to make sure there isn't someone standing there with a gun ready to blow your brains out. I think it is this paranoia that he suffers from that will continue to be his downfall. He want be able to keep his silence for very long.


~jmo~

I really don't think that much has changed for GZ, sadly I think the only real change is that now he actually has a legitimate and valid reason for his paranoia, because anyone who sees something suspicious in a kid walking down the street is already paranoid, and it still makes me wonder about the calls where the "Perps" got away, and if they were actually doing something that a rational person would consider suspicious or if they were just walking while unknown to GZ....IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[cityslick]

I tend to agree with this, unless he's a true scaredy cat. I guess we will have to wait and see how things progress. Justice for both Trayvon and George. He can't carry a gun anymore, so he may just hunker down and try to be elusive.

So many things make me wonder about this case. They won't let the police chief resign? Why? Is LE covering their own tracks and trying to make themselves "look" better because they boggled this from day one? Too little too late.

Some don't think they did anything wrong, not unlike Penn State higher ups thinking they did nothing wrong.

 

[impatientredhead]

LOL there are some FCA documents in that link as well. I saw something about 'motion to deny sealing jailhouse logs' and I was like, when did that happen.

I am on my netbook, small screen, so I am having a hard time reading a couple of the pages. The hand written notes from his girlfriend in 2003 are interesting! I hadn't seen the letter from Sanford Police about why he wasn't arrested that night either. I need my bigger monitor, my old eyes can't take this... LOL

 

[Concerned Papa]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

George didn't own anything in that development. Wonder how he got the mentality?

Problems in the 6-year-old community started during the recession, when foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood block captain.

Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...r-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Wonder if Frank thought he was a "low life" or a "gangster"?

 

[Elley Mae]

I am on my netbook, small screen, so I am having a hard time reading a couple of the pages. The hand written notes from his girlfriend in 2003 are interesting! I hadn't seen the letter from Sanford Police about why he wasn't arrested that night either. I need my bigger monitor, my old eyes can't take this... LOL

Try the "ctrl" key and + key that may help

 

[saguaro]

Back in the late 80's we were in a grocery store in Casa Grande Arizona, I saw a man with a gun in his holster, I had not seen that before, (we lived in Calif at the time) I was very surprised!! The second surprise of that morning was to learn we could not buy beer on Sunday before noon ??? Now in 20012 I live in Phoenix Arizona, I see people carrying guns in all types of places, grocery stores, restraunts, I'm used to it now. I don't know if the beer law for Sundays is still the same, now we just make sure we buy our beer on Saturday

They changed the law a few years ago and you can purchase booze from 6 a.m.–2 a.m. seven days a week. We don't have any holiday restrictions either.

:woohoo:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I tend to agree with this, unless he's a true scaredy cat. I guess we will have to wait and see how things progress. Justice for both Trayvon and George. He can't carry a gun anymore, so he may just hunker down and try to be elusive.

So many things make me wonder about this case. They won't let the police chief resign? Why? Is LE covering their own tracks and trying to make themselves "look" better because they boggled this from day one? Too little too late.

IN fairness, the police chief is there only 10 months according to the commissioners who will not accept his resignation, yet...

I also believe it has to do with the money...If they let him go now, he gets a severance package of about $54,000..they want the outcome of the investigation...if it shows he didn't allow this to be investigated further, they might just not want to give him that severance package...

Earlier Monday, the city announced in a statement that a separation agreement had been reached with Lee to resign. If it was approved by the City Commission, it would have taken effect at midnight.

But by a 3-2 vote, the commission opted not to accept the proposed deal, which would have permanently dismissed Lee from the job and given him a severance package. Two commissioners had questioned the fairness of Lee losing his job, while Mayor Jeff Triplett said he preferred to wait possibly several months for the results of an investigation into Lee and his department.

"I'm not ready to have him come back and run the Police Department, but I don't know if I'm ready for this either," Triplett said, who sided with the majority to reject the resignation.

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/30938783/detail.html#ixzz1t3fgkLAc

 

[LambChop]

I tend to agree with this, unless he's a true scaredy cat. I guess we will have to wait and see how things progress. Justice for both Trayvon and George. He can't carry a gun anymore, so he may just hunker down and try to be elusive.

So many things make me wonder about this case. They won't let the police chief resign? Why? Is LE covering their own tracks and trying to make themselves "look" better because they boggled this from day one? Too little too late.

BBM: It could be since he has only been on the job for 10 months they would have to pay him until the end of his contract, plus the cost of placing a new chief. jmo

 

[cityslick]

IN fairness, the police chief is there only 10 months according to the commissioners who will not accept his resignation, yet...

I also believe it has to do with the money...If they let him go now, he gets a severance package of about $54,000..they want the outcome of the investigation...if it shows he didn't allow this to be investigated further, they might just not want to give him that severance package...






Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/30938783/detail.html#ixzz1t3fgkLAc

I think it's a little of both trying to save money and trying to save face. They barely passed the no confidence vote for him to step down last month. I'm thinking on some of their minds voting for his resignation fully admits that the SPD screwed up and they are not ready to admit to that, at least not until the investigation is done.

 

[dunlurken]

IN fairness, the police chief is there only 10 months according to the commissioners who will not accept his resignation, yet...

I also believe it has to do with the money...If they let him go now, he gets a severance package of about $54,000..they want the outcome of the investigation...if it shows he didn't allow this to be investigated further, they might just not want to give him that severance package...






Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/30938783/detail.html#ixzz1t3fgkLAc

Thank you for this info. To me, it could mean many things. I agree it could be to save the severance pay. Or, it could mean keep him on board and see if charges may eventually be applied to the Chief of Police for hindering an investigation or negligence; which therefore could alliviate any culpability on the part of the state to pay a severance. I don't know, just food for thought. I think your thought of not wanting to pay the severance package is probably the right way to go though. JMO.

I tend to overthink things. Sorry guys.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I've lived in two gated communities for a total of 15 years and I have never, ever experienced this "gated community mentality? you speak of?

The community George lived in wasn't "that" nice. It has a Lake, a Club House, and apartments? Maybe I missed it, but does it even have tennis courts? Golf courses? Playgrounds? Bar-B-Q areas?

MOO

above respectfully BBM

Perhaps George thinks so, lol!. I noticed he corrected the dispatcher when he asked George his apt number. George replied, "it's a home".

Then he thinks better about giving his address for some reason and says, "crap, I don't want to give it out on here. I don't know where this kid went." (paraphrased)

It's just a little thing but one of many cumulative little things that bother me. They all look like apts/townhomes in retreat view to my old eyes and I just thought it odd to correct the dispatcher with this unnecessary information. IMO, a home would be a separate structure.

Has anyone heard if George will undergo a psyche evaluation? I've been away for several days and am behind in reading.

BTW, Hi everybody:seeya:

MOO

wm

 

[LambChop]

BBM.. I have thought all along a simple question .."Why are you following me?" sent GZ into a rage..JMHO

That in itself is an innocent statement is it not? Someone who is planning a crime would not ask that question? And TM did not get an answer. Instead he was asked the question, "what are you doing here." What was GZ's problem with identification? He did not have to give his name just say I'm the NW person and I need to know if you are staying here because I have not seen you before. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Both articles you are posting are Op-Ed pieces with no real statistics just the writers own opinion of their own feelings about gated communities.

Sorry it doesn't meet your standard but it does explain the mentality spoken about in gated communities...so, you don't have to accept it...I just gave a 'link' some asked for...

 

[dunlurken]

That in itself is an innocent statement is it not? Someone who is planning a crime would not ask that question? And TM did not get an answer. Instead he was asked the question, "what are you doing here." What was GZ's problem with identification? He did not have to give his name just say I'm the NW person and I need to know if you are staying here because I have not seen you before. jmo

Your comment makes sense. I'm curious about something else. Why didn't GZ every make it through the police academy. Did he actually attend or was it just on-line classes. We are getting so little information, it's difficult to draw any conclusions at this point. JMO. If this has already been discussed, I apologize.

 

[LynnM]

I said it was the poster child case and how they promoted it being passed. That is completely accurate and exactly how they packaged and sold it. I didn't say it was accurate, or that it was or wasn't distorted for political gain and lobbying dollars. That seemed off topic for this particular forum.

The case they based it on and marketed on had has many problems in as the cases we have discussed since then and is reflective of the problems with the law in and of itself. I never claimed to agree with the law, in fact I have stated repeatedly that I don't.

That it was put in place distorted facts and representation goes without saying as far as I am concerned, but I am pretty skeptical of the political system and the court system in general.

ETA to add: I knew he was not arrested and didn't actually run up costs, the bill included that as a worst case scenario. I will find my source for nine months to a year to be cleared. It was clearly twisted for effect no matter how long it actually went on. And now that law has been picked up by a dozen other states.

It was undoubtedly stressful for the Mr. Workman to have to wait three months before the investigation that cleared him was completed, but no matter how obvious it may seem that a homeowner killed someone in self defense or defense of home and family, that scenario could be wrong and a full investigation must be done. Remember the case of the man who supposedly came home and found a limo driver that his wife had reported for inappropriate conduct beating her to death with a tire iron? He then shot the man to death but his wife died. He wasn't arrested bu LE kept investigating to be sure. It turned out that he invited the fired limo driver over to clear the air so he could get his job back, killed his wife and then the driver as he entered the room where her body was. SYG shouldn't remove the need for thorough investigations.

 

[suzihawk]

According to his "friend" Joe Oliver in an interview that we found this morning that was posted back on March 27. He said it was an officer that took the photo with his Iphone.


~jmo~

But we still don't know how Oliver knew that since he claimed he had still not spoken to George at that time. How did he come by this little tidbit?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

That in itself is an innocent statement is it not? Someone who is planning a crime would not ask that question? And TM did not get an answer. Instead he was asked the question, "what are you doing here." What was GZ's problem with identification? He did not have to give his name just say I'm the NW person and I need to know if you are staying here because I have not seen you before. jmo

And TM didn't have to answer him...Who the hell is he?

Is he in uniform? As far as I know only police officers have that right to stop and ask...I believe GZ is a person with impulse control problems, boundry problems and he thinks he's all that...He reminds me of a person deemed with 'little man syndrome', even as they relays to small statured men...but without his gun, who is GZ? His gun allows him to 'walk tall', without fear and I truly question the reasonable fear from GZ, when he always had the advantage over TM...

GM never retreated, is my belief..his mentality is evident in not wanting another *advertiser censored**hole get away...

his menality gets him in those violent messes...same with the ex fiance...she claims he started to sexually grope her, when she told him to stop, he said he could cause you're my woman..

starts on page 7 but that part on groping is page 8
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/exhibit_list_redacted.pdf


GZ has boundry problems, is a paranoid dude...he started this fight with the X because she stopped for some cash and he thought she was elsewhere...

I always believe a liar always thinks the other person is lying...and I believe GZ is one....

 

[Just K]

Here is another simple question:
Isn't it true that GZ, as any other defendant who is out on bail or bond, is free to work any job he is qualified to obtain. Well, within his curfew hours unless he telecommutes, of course.
I ask this question because some have stated that if he is offered immunity via a win on a SYG hearing, that he would be reimbursed for his lost wages and any debts he incurred while unable to work.

Note: To my knowledge, no one in any official capacity is prohibiting him from finding a job. Hell, he could put on a baseball cap and a uniform and deliver pizzas. I'm sure someone in the gun lobby would hire him to do an office job...maybe even data entry, at home and on his own schedule...more or less.
He could do cold calling for telephone surveys.

IMO, it is his an his lawyers choice for him to go into hiding...are we to assume that GZ will never work another day in his life because he is afraid to be seen in public? And if so, whose choice will that be?

The way I see it, he and his wife can get jobs and still remain in hiding.