17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #33

[RANCH]

I said, "by CLAIMING such threats" - not "by being threatened". Please don't parse my words.

BTW... I haven't seen any such claims by Trayvon's parents. Have you?

I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part. I haven't heard Trayvons parents claim any threats have happened and I hope that they are not subjected to any.

 

[Emeralgem]

Anyone here know anything about a rally or benefit for Trayvon tonight? I heard the names Stevie Wonder, Denzell Washington and Magic Johnson mentioned in connection with the event..Anyone know where this is being held?

 

[annalia]

If the case makes it all the way to trial, could the jury be given the option of considering lesser charges, like manslaughter?

For example, in the CA case the jurors could have considered a lesser charge?

JMHO

 

[suspicious1]

If the case makes it all the way to trial, could the jury be given the option of considering lesser charges, like manslaughter?

For example, in the CA case the jurors could have considered a lessor charge?

JMHO

Annalia, I was thinking about the same thing....If anyone knows the answer please enlighten us...

Also, I was wondering if a jury could increase the charges to something like 1st degree murder...do they have that option as well?

just need a little clarification. TIA!

 

[suzihawk]

Anyone here know anything about a rally or benefit for Trayvon tonight? I heard the names Stevie Wonder, Denzell Washington and Magic Johnson mentioned in connection with the event..Anyone know where this is being held?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...niversary-Trayvon-Martin-Death-149088435.html

 

[mercuriod]

an indicator of your character? Really? You wouldn't get a job in my company with a bad credit history. Failing to keep promises, pay debts is actually a very good indicator of character in my experience. People who have legitimate reaosns for non-payment because of medical or other issues are able to explain or have their debts relieved. Racking up your credit card bill and then stiffing the company while claiming to make 10k a month is a pretty clear sign of bad character to me.

And, he's "college aged" because he's taking courses, regardless of his age? That's a rather unusual definition of college aged. Most college students don't take 10 years to get a 2 year degree and, of course, GZ still doesn't actually have any degree and he's unemployed as is his wife, I believe and yet he feels he has the right to make judgments about other people. Trayvons parents and his Dad's girlfirend all seem to be employed. Maybe GZ should have looked in the mirror to find someone suspicious-not paying your debts is STEALING you know, like the robbers he was so concerned about steal, he just didn't use a gun to do it, he saved that for killing a kid. What an upstanding citizen.

:bump: :goodpost: Best post of the day! :yourock:

 

[Nova]

It's the prosecution's burden to prove their case.

It is my opinion, they are gonna have a really hard time proving 2nd degree murder to 12 jurors without a reasonable doubt.

The investigator already said, on the stand, they don't have evidence of certain things they are claiming.

JMO

It is NOT the prosecution's burden during SYG hearing. The burden there will be GZ's. (If SYG immunity is denied and the case proceeds to trial, then the burden reverts to the State and GZ only has to show enough evidence to get his self-defense claim in front of the jury (a very low standard, it appears).)

I don't believe the investigator said they "don't have evidence of certain things they re claiming," I believe he said they don't know what happened during certain periods about which MO'M asked. Not the same thing.

 

[Just K]

Absolutely, they've never had a problem calling for help before, you know 46 times so I can't understand why not report them now. Additionally, the wife claims that she wasn't even with Zimmerman while he was in hiding and she says she has received only 1 email threat so we are supposed to just believe everything that Zimmerman says to be the truth? Yea right, this from a person who gave the police at least 5 differing statements on the night of Trayvon's murder.



~jmo~

I keep forgetting to say this:
That 46 times is only from Sanford LE. It would be interesting to see if other localities, either where Dad lives, where GZ or his wife lived, and/or areas nearby Sanford but just into another jurisdiction also have a slew of calls from one GZ or anonymous with his phone number.

I don't tend to give out many personal details but when I first heard he called LE 46 times in a certain amount of years, I got out a piece of paper and started writing down all the times I could remember calling LE over the past eight years. I have the type of job that takes me into at least one town, one city, and two counties.

If I look at 2004-2012 and only in my residential locality the number of calls are probably below a dozen.

However, if I add in the other city, the city and the campus police where my child went to college and the two separate counties, the number goes up significantly.

Because of my job, I am out and about and on the roads about four hours a day. I have reported a coyote in the suburbs, screaming that turned out to be a fox in heat a dead deer, a dead cat, brush fires, drunk or aggressive drivers (I simply report location, description and/or tag number and never know the outcome.) I report car accidents and if necessary I have stayed around to be a witness. In two instances, I was rear-ended while sitting at red lights.

I've called three different departments to assist in the prosecution of a man who is now convicted and serving a life sentence and who, 17 years earlier, had stalked me for 18 months. I have also reported suspicious people in parking lots or wooded locations in areas where there have been police reports of sexual assaults. I've called in two cases of possible child endangerment. One where a child was being dragged by her arm and taken into a home where screaming went on until the police arrived and a similar one where, from the sidewalk I could hear a child was screaming and crying. Through the open bedroom window, any neighbor or passerby could hear the child crying out and pleading "No, No No, please don't. Stop...etc"

My best guess is that in the last eight years I have probably called one office or another in 6 different jurisdictions (I forgot the one where I called for advice when a student was missing and later found murdered at my child's university.)

The point is, I do call to report things on a fairly regular basis but not just in my neighborhood. So, I'd be willing to bet that GZ called other jurisdictions around Sandford and Orlando as well as made contact with the campus police.

Note: Some of you are aware that I used to be in Social Work and Education

 

[m00c0w]

This is what I responded to:



The words "compound", "dependent", or "reliant" do not appear in the above comment. The repetitive use of the word EACH, however, clearly defines the individual, one by one qualifier for the parts of the proposed scenario.



Order or dependency has no bearing when considering the whole of a sum of individual, stand alone events as was stated in the post to which I responded.

Why did you leave this key part out?

"If I describe a scenario that hinges on a series of speculations, then, yes, of course, it too is probably pretty unlikely to be accurate. How unlikely depends on how many speculations there are, and the likelihood of each being true."

It's a series of speculations. Not just a mass of them. Of course you would segregate each event to determine the probability, and refer to it as "each" scenario. That doesn't mean that they have more or less impact on previous or future events in the series. The poster clearly stated it was a series of events, which directly implies order. In this context, they compound off of each other.

If you overlooked it, that's fine. But the poster was correct.

 

[ladonna]

Anyone here know anything about a rally or benefit for Trayvon tonight? I heard the names Stevie Wonder, Denzell Washington and Magic Johnson mentioned in connection with the event..Anyone know where this is being held?

I thought all the Martins wanted was an arrest.


http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/04/26/trayvon-martins-parents-to-host-civil-rights-rally-in-south-la/

 

[Emeralgem]

Very good catch. He knew just what to say and what to stress.

IMHO..He was staging the scene...JMHO

 

[Sherbie]

If the case makes it all the way to trial, could the jury be given the option of considering lesser charges, like manslaughter?

For example, in the CA case the jurors could have considered a lesser charge?

JMHO

It's possible. The defense can request a lesser included for the jury to consider, but it has to meet certain criteria that a judge would have to find appropriate for inclusion. Not a lawyer, so JMO.

 

[Nova]

I don't know anything more than what they tell us as to the location of TM's body. To me, I don't see how it can get more clear than what the SPD report says:

And what the SFD dispatcher says that the body is "lying in the grass in the back yard of 2831 Retreat View Circle".

The SPD report narrative of Officer Smith also adds considerable reason to believe the location shown below is correct when he tells us two other things in the above narrative.

(1) He parked his squad car in front of 2821 Retreat View Circle

(2) He SAW the body, face down in the grass, as he walked in between the buildings.

Officer Smith was the first responder. It was dark. He could not have seen a body "lying face down" in the grass if the body was not close to the location I have shown as opposed to the other end.

I don't see the clarity you mention. The officer first says he "began to canvas the area". That could not be vaguer: we have no way of knowing how long he "canvassed" or how far he walked before finding the body. We only know from his account that the body was found between two buildings, each of which contains numerous residences and is rather long.

Yes, two addresses are mentioned, but as we've all noted, nearly everyone who called 911 gave his individual unit's address. In the rush of the moment, nobody seems to be giving a precise GPS location of the body. The dispatcher is merely repeating two addresses she heard from two different callers. I don't see how that proves the body was lying in an invisible trapezoid drawn between those two units.

Don't get me wrong: I hope you're right and the body was indeed far from where the sidewalks met. Because that will disprove--definitively in my mind--GZ's story about crossing the green to check the address and then returning to his car.

 

[KateNY]

That Investigator Mr G, at the bond hearing..

some comments were that he wasn't 'prepared', seemed true enough that he wasn't expecting to be called...thus not prepared, in that sense, but

seemed to me to be someone who was itching with info, but couldn't say, at this point

recall that other case in FL, where investigators were communicating via email & phone with some of their experts, ie UT/BF/FBI, but there were not final reports..

so not obligated to share, as yet? possible here?

LOL did that make any sense

 

[RANCH]

If the case makes it all the way to trial, could the jury be given the option of considering lesser charges, like manslaughter?

For example, in the CA case the jurors could have considered a lesser charge?

JMHO

I'm not sure but I believe its possible. Here's a link to Florida's standard jury instructions that has a list of lesser included charges for murder 2. Look to the left side of the page under and click "7 Homicide" and then 7.4 Murder - Second Degree 782.04(2). Its a Word document or you can download the entire file as a PDF.

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/instructions.shtml#

 

[Emeralgem]

I thought all the Martins wanted was an arrest.


http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/04/26/trayvon-martins-parents-to-host-civil-rights-rally-in-south-la/

Thanks for the link.....
It is my understanding an arrest was/is exactly what the Martin's wanted, however.....

The rally is being held in part to “advocate for crime victims …, educate young people on conflict resolution techniques (and) increase public awareness against all forms of profiling,” the NAACP said in a statement.

Additionally, “this event will commemorate the two-month anniversary of Trayvon Martin’s death,”

IMHO.. It's ALL for the "GOOD"..JMHO

 

[Sherbie]

Annalia, I was thinking about the same thing....If anyone knows the answer please enlighten us...

Also, I was wondering if a jury could increase the charges to something like 1st degree murder...do they have that option as well?

just need a little clarification. TIA!

A jury can never consider convicting on charges more severe than those the state brings.

 

[Boytwnmom]

other than that, he's for civil liberties. Course, you might be dead or insane from the torture you suffered but no biggie. He's really not "liberal". He can't handle any criticism of Israel. He is very slectively for the liberties of those he agrees with and with various and sundry criminals. he likes juicy, high profile celebrity cases where he gets on TV a lot. OJ, Claus von Bulow, those kinds of things, hardly a toiler in the fields of the downtrodden.

As someone who practices in Boston I can assure you people don't really care WHAT he says here so why a prosecutor in FL would is beyond me. His completely inconsistent positions regarding civil liberties and rights is so glaring when it invovles tortutre or threats to Israel that his arguments carry no weight. To me, he's like the current Supreme CT, completely outcome oriented, with no regard for principles.

I wish she would respond. I'd pay money to see Corey go up against one of the most lettered, experienced and respected legal minds of the 20-21st Century. Especially a staunch liberal who's known for civil liberties coming out against the "civil liberties" poster affidavit.

 

[Nova]

If the case makes it all the way to trial, could the jury be given the option of considering lesser charges, like manslaughter?

For example, in the CA case the jurors could have considered a lesser charge?

JMHO

Yes, it's possible. It depends on whether the prosecution or defense requests lesser charges be included, and whether the judge agrees that a reasonable jury might opt for one of those lesser offenses based on the evidence.

IANAL, but I have been a juror in California on a case where all three options (2nd degree, voluntary and involuntary manslaughter) were included. The requirements for each are specific and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Some of the posts here seem to imply that if you have a REALLY strong case, you get to go for murder; but you settle for manslaughter if you have a weaker case. That may happen sometimes with bad juries and I've heard stories of juries "compromising" on the middle charge. But it's not supposed to be the way the law works.

 

[Nova]

Annalia, I was thinking about the same thing....If anyone knows the answer please enlighten us...

Also, I was wondering if a jury could increase the charges to something like 1st degree murder...do they have that option as well?

just need a little clarification. TIA!

When I was a murder-trial juror in California, we were told no, we could not opt for 1st degree because the prosecution wasn't asking for it. Or maybe it was because the judge ruled the evidence couldn't reasonably support 1st degree.

But I know we were specifically told we did NOT have the option of raising the charge.