17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

[Aedrys]

I agree. As I have ALWAYS said, GZ deserves to be charged with a crime and should do some time. I totally agree that he was in the wrong.

But I also reserve some judgment about what happened in the final minutes. Because as assinine as it was that GZ decided to follow this poor kid, it might have also been true that this kid left him no choice as they struggled over control of the gun.

I can respect that. I am reserving judgment myself until I see all of the evidence. Honestly, we just don't know what happened in those final minutes and who was the aggressor.

 

[Karmady]

Does anyone know if there were other tools in his backpack? If he also had some wrenches or a small tool set it certainly be less suspicious.

I don't. The only thing I've read about it was the article upthread...miami herald, maybe.

 

[Phoenixfla]

No, what I am asking is for fairness on both sides. GZ is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law only. He does not have to prove his innocence there unless he goes with the SYG defense. At any rate, this is a discussion board, not a court of law. If everything under the sun can be held against TM, then why can't the same be said of GZ? And no, I don't expect him to come here and defend himself either. I just think real justice is looking fairly at both sides of the issue. I see too many people here assuming TM was a lost cause that was doomed to die by gunshot anyway or that he deserved to die without any solid proof that is true, but anything that comes up about GZ just needs to be immediately ignored because he's so lily white and pure that he couldn't have possibly have shot TM unless he was being attacked. That just doesn't seem right to me. There is proof of violence in GZ's past, and none in TM's past, but TM is the and GM is practically Mr. Rogers in his neighborhood. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

From what the evidence we do have is telling me, GZ was the aggressor who assumed TM was a criminal and made sure TM was not another that was going to get away. I see nothing that says TM was the aggressor and GZ had no choice but to shoot and kill him. And no, one photo of a barely bloody and injured head is not proof enough for me.

I think we all have different life experiences, many of us come from different parts of the country, different sexes, and I assume a pretty wide range of ages. We are probably a close enough cross section of the general population that it would not be unreasonable to think that a jury would be having these same arguments as we are. Unless and until additional evidence comes out that strongly supports one side or the other I think its safe to say that a random selection of 12 of us could not come to an unanimous decision. Therefore it is my opinion that unless significant evidence comes out against GZ, he will be acquitted.

 

[Inabsentia]

Thanks, inabsentia. I didn't have your post in mind. But I can see how it would seem like that given the proximity of your post. It just reminded me of others. So sorry about that. And back in the day, that might have been a reasonable innocent explanation (if you forget about the ladies' jewelry lol). But, like I said, these days you wouldn't be allowed to carry a screwdriver for any reason. I just confirmed with dd

That's a sad state of affairs, really. My kids are still in elementary school and I am in no rush for them to reach the high school years.

 

[katydid23]

I can respect that. I am reserving judgment myself until I see all of the evidence. Honestly, we just don't know what happened in those final minutes and who was the aggressor.

OMG. THANK YOU. That is ALL I have been trying to get anyone to say. Honestly, that is all. I think people should wait for the trial and the evidence, before they say he is a cold blooded monster that planned this child's death. JMO

 

[Karmady]

That's a sad state of affairs, really. My kids are still in elementary school and I am in no rush for them to reach the high school years.

I agree with you, and that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish:maddening: btw, mine aren't in hs either.

 

[Inabsentia]

OMG. THANK YOU. That is ALL I have been trying to get anyone to say. Honestly, that is all. I think people should wait for the trial and the evidence, before they say he is a cold blooded monster that planned this child's death. JMO

I just wanted to say that I don't believe that GZ planned to kill TM in cold blood. I do, however, strongly believe that his choices and actions lead directly and unnecessarily to Trayvon's death. I absolutely believe he is morally responsible. Moo

 

[suspicious1]

Does anyone know if there were other tools in his backpack? If he also had some wrenches or a small tool set it certainly be less suspicious.

Did he have a backpack filled with tools the night he was killed? Were tools found at the crime scene? I guess I missed that part.

 

[highflyer]

I think we all have different life experiences, many of us come from different parts of the country, different sexes, and I assume a pretty wide range of ages. We are probably a close enough cross section of the general population that it would not be unreasonable to think that a jury would be having these same arguments as we are. Unless and until additional evidence comes out that strongly supports one side or the other I think its safe to say that a random selection of 12 of us could not come to an unanimous decision. Therefore it is my opinion that unless significant evidence comes out against GZ, he will be acquitted.

I don't see how that determination can be made without seeing the evidence.

 

[Ambrosia]

"But he went into a closed part of the campus and spray painted a curse word on private property. That says something about his impulsive personality, imo."

I would agree but the from what I have read is that the vandalism was not spray paint, but a magic marker found on him, which he had used to write three letters "W*F? on a school locker.

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't see how that determination can be made without seeing the evidence.

I have a strong feeling that the majority of the states case is in their probable cause affidavit. Who knows - I certainly may be wrong and I'll admit it if I am.

 

[vlpate]

I think we all have different life experiences, many of us come from different parts of the country, different sexes, and I assume a pretty wide range of ages. We are probably a close enough cross section of the general population that it would not be unreasonable to think that a jury would be having these same arguments as we are. Unless and until additional evidence comes out that strongly supports one side or the other I think its safe to say that a random selection of 12 of us could not come to an unanimous decision. Therefore it is my opinion that unless significant evidence comes out against GZ, he will be acquitted.

Not to mention, a jury will not be subjected to all of the mainstream malpractice. By then the hyperbole will have abated - besides, a third NBC employee was fired today for editing the 911 tape, Lilia Luciano.

I know I couldn't make a decision right now, and certainly not for murder 1.

 

[suzihawk]

OMG. THANK YOU. That is ALL I have been trying to get anyone to say. Honestly, that is all. I think people should wait for the trial and the evidence, before they say he is a cold blooded monster that planned this child's death. JMO

Then shouldn't people also have to wait for the trial and evidence before they proclaim Trayvon to be a low life that was looking for trouble?

I guess if we all have to wait for the trial and evidence to express our opinions then none of us on either side has anything to discuss here.

 

[Just K]

I would agree but the from what I have read is that the vandalism was not spray paint, but a magic marker found on him, which he had used to write three letters "W*F? on a school locker.

And that is hilarious when you consider what students are allowed to do to lockers on "Spirit Days." They actually do use paint, paper and sometimes glitter and it is allowed.

Magic marker comes off with rubbing alcohol...paint is a lot harder to remove, IMO.

 

[AngelWings444]

I have a strong feeling that the majority of the states case is in their probable cause affidavit. Who knows - I certainly may be wrong and I'll admit it if I am.

I'm horrible at links but I do remember someone on the prosecution side saying they have much more than the probable cause affidavit. One would hope so.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Just the fact that he was an impulsive teenager, and an ex football player so he knew how to physically 'hit' someone with his body if he needed to, and he was impulsive and rebellious, given his three suspensions.

That is a lot of suspensions, imo.
Many kids stop being a discipline problem at one suspension. But he went into a closed part of the campus and spray painted a curse word on private property. That says something about his impulsive personality, imo. Students doing something destructive like that in broad daylight have little impulse control, imo.

I know this is going to bring me a lot of flaming and anguish, but you asked me the question, and I am answering from my experience working in schools with 'at risk' kids. Three suspensions is a lot. And ten days is a very big deal. They do not like to send kids away from campus any longer than necessary because they miss the ada $ every day a kid is gone. And they don't want a kid to get behind in classes either. So this was quite a long suspension. And that tells me that the school was concerned with his behavior. JMO

So to answer your question, I think he had poor impulse control, knew how to fight, and was angry that day being grounded by his dad for his 10 day suspension. So when this scary weirdo was following him, he was angry.

BBM. I'm confused.

Are you saying that TM was an at-risk kid? Because early on I remember reading that he was an A and B student.

Also, what is the ada $ and how does it apply to Trayvon?

 

[Phoenixfla]

I'm horrible at links but I do remember someone on the prosecution side saying they have much more than the probable cause affidavit. One would hope so.

The impression I got from Gilbreaths testimony was they are relying on inconsistencies in GZs statements. I sure am curious to read or see them. Does anyone think they could be video recorded?

 

[Just K]

The impression I got from Gilbreaths testimony was they are relying on inconsistencies in GZs statements. I sure am curious to read or see them. Does anyone think they could be video recorded?

I sure hope so.

 

[Karmady]

I would agree but the from what I have read is that the vandalism was not spray paint, but a magic marker found on him, which he had used to write three letters "W*F? on a school locker.

I've always thought that the jewelry was the biggest *issue* in terms of whether Trayvon was headed down the wrong path. If one of my kids got caught with those items I would be very, very concerned. I agree that the locker marking wasn't a big deal, and the dope/pipe a middle-of-the-road deal (I wouldn't be happy with my kid about that, either). Most importantly, though, I've never thought that it was particularly relevant to THIS case. So the extreme opposition to simple acknowledgement that those events occurred and that, at least some of them led to the suspension and aren't necessarily completely good and innocent things, has always made me scratch my head. I think they were initially discussed just as a reaction to the extreme media spin that Trayvon was a perfect little angel -- a cherubic 12 yo. I've never thought that seeing an accurate picture of Trayvon as his 17 yo self detracts from the issues in any way. To me, if he was wrongfully killed, he was wrongfully killed, regardless of whether he was giving his parents and the principal a hard time, or even beginning to head down a wrong path. Lord knows, anyone who knew me when I was 17 is stunned that I'm alive to speak of it lol. jmo

 

[highflyer]

I've always thought that the jewelry was the biggest *issue* in terms of whether Trayvon was headed down the wrong path. If one of my kids got caught with those items I would be very, very concerned. I agree that the locker marking wasn't a big deal, and the dope/pipe a middle-of-the-road deal (I wouldn't be happy with my kid about that, either). Most importantly, though, I've never thought that it was particularly relevant to THIS case. So the extreme opposition to simple acknowledgement that those events occurred and that, at least some of them led to the suspension and aren't necessarily completely good and innocent things, has always made me scratch my head. I think they were initially discussed just as a reaction to the extreme media spin that Trayvon was a perfect little angel -- a cherubic 12 yo. I've never thought that seeing an accurate picture of Trayvon as his 17 yo self detracts from the issues in any way. To me, if he was wrongfully killed, he was wrongfully killed, regardless of whether he was giving his parents and the principal a hard time, or even beginning to head down a wrong path. Lord knows, anyone who knew me when I was 17 is stunned that I'm alive to speak of it lol. jmo

The extreme opposition is because this is a victim friendly forum.