2 Students Sue High School Over Confederate Flag Ban

[Levi]

To my knowledge, Indians were called "redskins." "Rednecks" was a term applied at some point to Southern farmers, whose necks were said to be red from all the time they spent stooped over, laboring in the sun.

It's more a classist slur than a racist one, but you're right. It's not a very nice word.

I believe Pandora put the word in quotes precisely to acknowledge its problematic nature, while at the same time invoking the word as handy shorthand for a certain set of beliefs (since in the modern usage, "redneck" isn't strictly applied to agricultural workers).

That is interesting. I think some people only think "rednecks" are in the south. A friend of mine went up to Michigan and said that the stereotype of only southerners being red necks "just aint true."

 

[Snowbird]

I found this post made by SadieMae very interesting in regard to your post above.



i add it to 'Things i never knew before reading Websleuths'.

Actually the civil war, War of Agression was about STATES RIGHT TO RULE themselves.

 

[hipmamajen]

Actually the civil war, War of Agression was about STATES RIGHT TO RULE themselves.

That was my understanding. I may be wrong, but I thought the North was fighting to preserve the Union, and the South was fighting for the right to secede?

 

[Karole28]

Actually the civil war, War of Agression was about STATES RIGHT TO RULE themselves.

:clap:

And, the fact that we watched our tarrifs going north and west instead of south. Southerners were completely fed up with watching their taxes be distributed up north and to the west disproportionately.

Percentage of Spending Percentage of Population

(1830)

North 49.4 47.5

South 19.0 39.9

West 31.6 12.6



But, then again, I'm a redneck, so what do I know?

 

[Karole28]

it seems like 'european american' people have lost their sense of history and culture, so nw they feel they have to co-opt someone else's culture. the young people no longer have any roots, as the past generations have usually made an effort to assimilate and leave the old world behind. so now, you have a kind of rootless, homogenous culture, while everyone else gets to hold onto, and 'celebrate' theirs. we are taught to be ashamed of ours, and it seems all we have is images of negative stuff drilled into our heads..

AMEN and AMEN. I was taught very young to lose my southern twang lest I be considered ignorant.

I'm ashamed I did now.

I wonder if children in Baaahston and New England are pushed to do the same?

It really pi$$es me off to see how southerners are portrayed on television in movies Deliverance, (dear God), Dukes of Hazzard, Hee Haw, etc.

I wonder if it's ok for me to assume that every Italian man has mob ties? If every Jewish woman is a self labeled "martyr" suffering and whining to the extreme?

I guess it's ok for me to assume that every Irishman is a drunkard, every Frenchman is a coward?
Is every man from the west a cowboy? Is every woman a beaten down prairie wife? Is every man in New Englander a fisherman and is everyone from Mass. kin to the Kennedys?

We all have our presumptions about folks, that's understandable. But somehow, southerners (and Protestants) seem to make acceptable targets.

Some people can celebrate their heritage. Some can't.

Reb is exactly right on the money, here.

 

[Karole28]

I believe that the confederate flag being a symbol of the KU KLUX KLAN, and other racist hate groups should not be allowed at a public school. I equate this to someone coming to school wearing a swastika.

I feel the same way about Malcolm X attire.

 

[Karole28]

I was in northeast GA--can you tell?

Me too, born and raised. I'm sure you mean this in the nicest way possible?

 

[Pandora]

Every year many of my "redneck" students wore rebel flags on their clothing. Every year I used it as a "teachable moment," requiring a paragraph first on "What does the rebel flag mean to you?" class.

(I was in northeast GA--can you tell?) While there were those who were racist, they were required to defend their wearing of the t-shirt. (By me, not by administration.)

I wounder if any body ever required a paragraph from you on " What it means to call a person a redneck?" (which was what indians were called) or maybe you ment that the indians were wearing rebel flags clothing to school. I dont see how a person can teach against being racist when that person is being racist to another group of people. Maybe its just racist if is angainst black.

WOW! Okay, let's clarify: I was raised by a "redneck" family. We do NOT consider it a slur--it is a badge of honor. We are a hardworking farm family who literally have red necks 99.9% of the time. As far as Native Americans are concerned, they were called redskins. (Most of my students and myself are part Cherokee--it comes with the territory.)
My apologies since I obviously offended you--that was not my intent at all.

 

[Pandora]

Me too, born and raised. I'm sure you mean this in the nicest way possible?

Yup! Nothing quite like G.R.I.T.S. (Girls Raised In The South)
I think I'll back out of this thread now, since I seem to be inadvertently offending just about everyone.
Bye, y'all!

 

[BhamMama]

The south was not the only ones to own slaves, in the north slavery wasn't illegal, even after the war. The emancipation only covered the southern states. The south also didn't own the ships that brought the slaves here. The northern ships were not taxed, nor did the captains get in trouble for their part in slavery.

The United States flag is the offical flag of the KKK, second is the Christian flag. Not all groups adopted the battle flag.

Out of the 224 years that slavery was legal here the battle flag only flew 4 years and that after the war started. Old Glory flew the rest of the time before and after.

Lincoln's black policy wasn't to free the blacks, it was to colonize them back to Africa. It wasnt until he figured out that they could be used as pawns that the 'set them free' but only in the south. They continued to be slaves up north. He also believed in the innate superiority of the white man and mentions that often in his speeches and private letters.

I am a daughter of the South, my family died for what they believed was right. Now most read that statement and think I'm racist. What they don't know is most of my paternal family were Union soldiers. I'm proud of them too. Read about the Free State of Winston in Alabama. It doesn't make me any less proud of my Confederate side of the family. It's the spirit of the men, children of the revolution, that makes it special.

So if I have to be ashamed of one flag, I should have to be ashamed of the other as well if I follow common thought. Many wrongs have been done while someone was holding both of them.

But we weren't on the winning side so we are not allowed to be proud. We also didn't get to write the history books.

 

[Nova]

Certainly there were economic (tariffs) and political (states' rights) issues that led to the Civil War. And just as certainly one reason the Northern states could afford to oppose slavery was that they had their own cheap source of labor in the form of European immigrants. (The North was not and is not a paradise of racial tolerance.)

But the issue of slavery was at the heart of even those other issues. (Even today, "states' rights" becomes a fighting issue only when certain states don't like what the feds are doing.) So it's not entirely accurate to claim the war was "not" about slavery.

Even though most Southerners did not own slaves, the "yeoman" class (small farmers on holdings too small to support slaves) were inflamed by propaganda about the dire threat of "free negroes."

And while the average Yankee soldier may not have gone to war out of altruism, he, too, was whipped into a fury by propaganda about the supposed immorality and decadence of Southern slaveholders.

So, sure, the war was a conflict between a predominantly industrial region (the North) and a predominantly agricultural one (the South) over the future of the nation, but without slavery and racial phobias, nobody would have had an issue sufficently incendiary to motivate the average Joe to risk his life.

 

[sherri79]

So, sure, the war was a conflict between a predominantly industrial region (the North) and a predominantly agricultural one (the South) over the future of the nation, but without slavery and racial phobias, nobody would have had an issue sufficently incendiary to motivate the average Joe to risk his life.

i wouldnt bet the farm on that hun. i really think the war would have come sooner or later. slavery was the easiest issue to get the common man up in arms over but i am sure that those who saw the need for the war would have found a issue if slavery was not available.

 

[LinasK]

The reason is because hate groups have decided to adopt the confederate flag as a symbol. It is a reminder of slavery and segregation and is displayed at Klan meetings and other extremist hate group meetings. I wouldn't want to associate myself with those groups.

Exactly csds!:clap: You get it!

 

[ceeaura]

The south was not the only ones to own slaves, in the north slavery wasn't illegal, even after the war. The emancipation only covered the southern states. The south also didn't own the ships that brought the slaves here. The northern ships were not taxed, nor did the captains get in trouble for their part in slavery.

The United States flag is the offical flag of the KKK, second is the Christian flag. Not all groups adopted the battle flag.

Out of the 224 years that slavery was legal here the battle flag only flew 4 years and that after the war started. Old Glory flew the rest of the time before and after.

Lincoln's black policy wasn't to free the blacks, it was to colonize them back to Africa. It wasnt until he figured out that they could be used as pawns that the 'set them free' but only in the south. They continued to be slaves up north. He also believed in the innate superiority of the white man and mentions that often in his speeches and private letters.

I am a daughter of the South, my family died for what they believed was right. Now most read that statement and think I'm racist. What they don't know is most of my paternal family were Union soldiers. I'm proud of them too. Read about the Free State of Winston in Alabama. It doesn't make me any less proud of my Confederate side of the family. It's the spirit of the men, children of the revolution, that makes it special.

So if I have to be ashamed of one flag, I should have to be ashamed of the other as well if I follow common thought. Many wrongs have been done while someone was holding both of them.

But we weren't on the winning side so we are not allowed to be proud. We also didn't get to write the history books.

:clap: Nice post BhamMama.

 

[Blondieskatz]

regardless of the history, the race issue, and all that... i think the reason that something like this is seeing a resurgance is that is could be a backlash against the current street / gangsta culture that seems to have taken over our society today. it is shoved in our faces everywhere you look... music, billboards, TV, videos, popular culture... every other commercial seems to make fun of dorky white people trying to act black. look on myspace, and about 80% of the white kids on there are all thugged out, with gang symbols and all that. listen to yougn people talk today, same thing.
it seems like 'european american' people have lost their sense of history and culture, so nw they feel they have to co-opt someone else's culture. the young people no longer have any roots, as the past generations have usually made an effort to assimilate and leave the old world behind. so now, you have a kind of rootless, homogenous culture, while everyone else gets to hold onto, and 'celebrate' theirs. we are taught to be ashamed of ours, and it seems all we have is images of negative stuff drilled into our heads.. how white people killed the indians, how white people enslaved blacks, then you have hitler killing 9 million people (about 6 million of which were jews-- the rest were romani (& other) gypsies, russian, polish, french, scandinavian & italian non-jews (prostestants, catholics, & others..), czechs, dutch, bosnians & serbs, other eastern european, greek orthodox, africans, asians, the elderly, the sick, the disabled, artists, political activists & prisoners, communists, freemasons, homosexuals,, intellectuals, nazi resistors, trade unionists, jehovah's witnesses, & anyone else who got in the way. this is just a reminder-- that it was much more than jews!)
so anyway... you turn on the history channel, and there's hitler bashing the podium and screaming while everyone's doing the 'zeig hiel'. so of COURSE we must remember what happened... and never forget. but is that all there is? i feel like other than that disaster, the heritage of EA's is largely forgotten. we are taught to have shame while everyone else gets to celebrate & be proud. it's constantly drilled into our heads that we have nothing to be proud of-- we are bad, bad, bad, and evil. if we do try to be proud of our culture everyone calls us a neo-nazi or a racist.
so is it any wonder that these white kids are trying to latch onto to the only sense of history and cultural identity they know, and trying to stand up for their sense of heritage, as well as free speech...?

Well said! :clap:

 

[gman20001969]

Exactly csds!:clap: You get it!

Right. But some things should slide. After all, not everyone that wears clothing with a rebel flag on it are racist. If that was the case, then I have some racist family members on my wife's side that seem to be colorblind around me.

But the issue here really was clothing that was banned from being worn on school grounds. In school, the rules are the rules and should be followed.

 

[Trino]

Much of the flack concerning the Confederate flag is misinformation.

It wasn't until 1863 that the current Confederate flag was used, the one in question. Before that, the Stars and Bars was used. Why isn't the Stars and Bars considered racist? Bet most people here don't even know what the Stars and Bars looked like or that its use was discontinued because it was too similar to the US flag. Confederate and Union troops were firing on their own.

Note the majority of Southern boys who died flighting under the Confederate flag were not slave owners. They fought because Southern laws required them to do so. The South, like the North, had a draft law. IMO to dishonor the Confederate flag is to dishonor about 300,00 young men who died during this horrible conflict.

If the Confederate flag is racist, why aren't these considered racist?

Do you know about April 26 in Georgia? Bet y'all don't know it's Confederate Memorial Day.

Ever been to downtown Dallas? Check out the huge statues (all Confederate leaders and generals) in the main square.

The last I heard, the Confederate flag still flies from the SC Statehouse.

Much of U.S. 1 in Virginia is still called the Jefferson Davis Highway, as is U.S. 80 in Alabama.

The last Monday in May in Mississippi is called National Memorial Day and Jefferson Davis' Birthday. (Notice MS covered themselves well.)

In Alabama there is Jefferson Davis Community College; in Georgia there is a Jeff Davis County.

I could go on...

 

[Trino]

Certainly there were economic (tariffs) and political (states' rights) issues that led to the Civil War. And just as certainly one reason the Northern states could afford to oppose slavery was that they had their own cheap source of labor in the form of European immigrants. (The North was not and is not a paradise of racial tolerance.)

But the issue of slavery was at the heart of even those other issues. (Even today, "states' rights" becomes a fighting issue only when certain states don't like what the feds are doing.) So it's not entirely accurate to claim the war was "not" about slavery.

Even though most Southerners did not own slaves, the "yeoman" class (small farmers on holdings too small to support slaves) were inflamed by propaganda about the dire threat of "free negroes."

And while the average Yankee soldier may not have gone to war out of altruism, he, too, was whipped into a fury by propaganda about the supposed immorality and decadence of Southern slaveholders.

So, sure, the war was a conflict between a predominantly industrial region (the North) and a predominantly agricultural one (the South) over the future of the nation, but without slavery and racial phobias, nobody would have had an issue sufficently incendiary to motivate the average Joe to risk his life.

Just a comment about the "average Joe." Isn't this why WVA was formed? The Civil War was also economic. Western Virginia (WVA) was the poor country cousin of VA, an economic reason to forego ties to the South.

 

[2sisters]

I am just gonna say this and if I offend anyone or anyones thinks I am racist then so be it.
If these 2 were black students carrying or wearing something that is racist to whites mexicans, Chineese, whatever and were banned from school it seems to me the response would be different, That the school was being racist, or their freedom of speech was taken away. Would anyone call the black girls racist? I used to see blacks at school wearing "black power" things and whatnot, i wasn't offended. i could care lessEveryone would just say they were expressing themselves. For some the confederate flag is a symbol of heratige, of a time passed in the south and a cause their ansestors fought for. After all the civil war and the south's secession wasn't all about slavery. There were other factors too. I don't find that anymore bothersome than Mexican Americans waving a Mexican flag.
I am just over everyone getting their underpants in a was over things. Everyone is offended by stuff any more. Who cares?

 

[Linda7NJ]

When I was in high school if anyone wore a rebel flag t-shirt they would have to turn them inside out and wear them like that. Same with the Big Johnson T-shirts. Eventually so many kids were doing it anyway they started threatening suspension.
My school would go even further than that though. During black history month for one whole day we would have black guest speakers come to the school and speak about black leaders and their achievements, how hard it was for them to get where they are today, etc. Well anyway, we were told that any white student that did not come to school that day MUST have a doctors note when they came back or we would be suspended.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251303,00.html

DALLAS — Two high school students sent home for carrying purses depicting the Confederate flag filed a lawsuit against their suburban Fort Worth school district Friday, claiming their free speech rights were violated.

Aubrie Michelle Mccallum and Ashley Paige Thomas, both 17, say they were singled out for punishment in a lawsuit prepared by the Southern Legal Resource Center, a North Carolina-based group whose motto is "Justice For Dixie."

The girls were punished at Burleson High School for expressing "pride in their Southern ancestry, culture and heritage," according to the suit.

The suit asks that Burleson ISD clear the girls' student record, acknowledge that that their Constitutional rights were violated and pay unspecified damages. (more at link)

unbelievable