2008.06.16 James T. says he saw Caylee alive around Noon #1

[Valhall]

*snipped*

FWIW...

• I don't have an 11:29-11:47AM call from Tony. I have an incoming call from Tony that initiated @ 11:47 w/ 19 minute duration that would've ended @ 12:06 if my math is correct.
• In the ping thread analysis I provided a conservative estimate that includes ignoring activity that didn't require Casey to be in attendance w/ her phone (e.g. if she left it @ home). Starting conservative allows one to make one's own assumptions and eliminate accordingly.
• Using Google Maps I get different travel times vs. what you provided. Of course, traffic conditions, etc. mean that travel time will vary...but has been reasonable accurate when comparied to pings historically. For example...IIRC, a travel time of 23mins from G&C's to Tony's apt works pretty well. Also getting a 29-30min travel time from G&C's to Walmart.

Went into great detail on the pings in the 6/16 ping thread and provided the link in post #254 and details on assumptions, etc. there vs. getting into the minutia of pings here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Witness says he saw Caylee alive around noon on 06.16.08

I guess I disagree with your interpretation that the call from Tony began at 11:47. Can you help swing my opinion by producing how you decided that was a start time versus a stop time?

P.S. NEVERMIND! I see it! Error on my side.

That pushes the time available to at least 11:15 to 11:20 that she could be leaving the WalMart. Even closer to noon and making it make more sense.

 

[cecybeans]

How do we know if this guy came forward or if LE found him through a business card or when they deposed AL. KC was with AL the day he picked his car up which was across the street from this guys store. Maybe this would explain the delay in his statement to LE.

That totally makes sense. He may have been contacted early on and asked to make a formal statement later, when it became apparent he had seen her at a time that turned out to be significant, and had been checked out as not a SODDI candidate.

 

[cecybeans]

Check out this post.

Wow! This may have been why the "homicide" by Dr. G. regardless of no COV.:woohoo:

 

[lin]

If JT is on the state's witness list, they must feel he is a viable witness. Otherwise, why open him up to a nasty cross from JB and Co.? Wouldn't that be rather risky? He's going to be filleted by the defense anyway for his interest in her legs and cleavage. So, IMO, the state must think he will provide credible testimony.

Just throwing this out as an alternative -- not saying I believe it -- just sayin'...

Maybe the state intends to call him as a witness and maybe they don't, kwim?

 

[Beatrice]

I've always believed Casey left her house with Caylee on Monday around noon. (As per George)
Casey drove around wasting time in order to come back to the house when George left. IMO It was at the pool that "something happened to Caylee"....
Drowning or deliberate death. The ladder was up on the pool.

Casey was always texting on her phone & may have ignored Caylee in the pool. Or it was premediated...Or both...The computer searches....
The cadaver dogs hit on an area behind the pool, the sandbox & the dollhouse.

IMO the duct tape, chloroform, etc. were just a phony way of saying Caylee was kidnapped & killed.

She felt Jesse loved Caylee more than her.
She was not going to lose Tony to "I just want to have male children"
She was ready for the good life "Bella Vita" & was not going to have Caylee stand in her way.

I just bet it will come out that someone else placed Caylee on Suburban Drive.

 

[lin]

If I am reading the ping map right, (I could be wrong!) There is an hour gap at lunch time on the pings this day. 11:52am to 12:53pm. Is it possible that she was concerned about the bad checks coming back to Target and them being flagged in their computer system so she decided to go elsewhere a little further out? Just thinking out loud...

Good catch. That's the thing about this witness - there are too many unknowns, imo, to come to a firm conviction regarding his credibility or lack thereof.

 

[cecybeans]

If I am reading the ping map right, (I could be wrong!) There is an hour gap at lunch time on the pings this day. 11:52am to 12:53pm. Is it possible that she was concerned about the bad checks coming back to Target and them being flagged in their computer system so she decided to go elsewhere a little further out? Just thinking out loud...

I might be confused. Are we talking about the 16th? If so, she had not yet written the Target checks.

 

[lin]

Let's assume LE knows this statement to be factually true (video tapes, etc.) I'm also assuming the pings represent cell tower location, not precisely where Casey was at the moment.

If so, this is at odds with George's statement about the clothing they were were wearing when he last saw Caylee. As I recall Cindy says she listens at the door before she leaves for work and hears them breathing. George doesn't appear in his statement to see them until the cooking show about noon and Casey is wearing 'work' slacks, and they leave. (I'm not sure if we know exactly when George physically left the house that day)

The witness sees them at Walmart around lunch time. This could be anywhere from about noon to about two. Casey is wearing shorts and a halter top or something similar. No mention that I saw about what Caylee was wearing. Did George leave early that day and Casey came back immediately and changed into the shorts/skirt outfit?

What was she buying?

Maybe a mobile charger or extra battery for an overused cell phone that was sitting plugged in at home because she had drained the battery?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Just throwing this out as an alternative -- not saying I believe it -- just sayin'...

Maybe the state intends to call him as a witness and maybe they don't, kwim?

Maybe they want the Defense to be dying of curiosity, like us :laugh:

 

[lin]

Maybe this guy was mistaken and it was a Target instead of Walmart as Target usually has interior and exterior doors. Based upon KC's previous shopping she usually went to Target. My girls like Target better than Walmart and usually only go to Target. (just a thought - maybe the pings will line up and the Target store might be closer to the guy's computer store).

Another good point about another possibility that is as yet unknown. Maybe the guy is not credible; maybe he's telling the whole truth; maybe he is mixed up on the day; maybe he mixed up which walmart or which other store; etc. etc. etc.

Need more info!!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I've always believed Casey left her house with Caylee on Monday around noon. (As per George)
Casey drove around wasting time in order to come back to the house when George left. IMO It was at the pool that "something happened to Caylee"....
Drowning or deliberate death. The ladder was up on the pool.

Casey was always texting on her phone & may have ignored Caylee in the pool. Or it was premediated...Or both...The computer searches....
The cadaver dogs hit on an area behind the pool, the sandbox & the dollhouse.

IMO the duct tape, chloroform, etc. were just a phony way of saying Caylee was kidnapped & killed.

She felt Jesse loved Caylee more than her.
She was not going to lose Tony to "I just want to have male children"
She was ready for the good life "Bella Vita" & was not going to have Caylee stand in her way.

I just bet it will come out that someone else placed Caylee on Suburban Drive.

You took the words right out of my brain!
The pool ladder speaks volumes.
George and Cindy would NEVER have left that up.
The only thiing I would not agree with is that someone else placed her- I think it was done hurriedly and by someone who did not want to go any further into that area than they had to.

 

[Balthazar]

I think this is an interesting witness. I wonder why he waited so long to come forward and why no other witness remembers seeing Casey and Caylee that day at Walmart. I believe all Walmarts have a door greeter - I would think that person would have noticed them (particularily Caylee struggling with a heavy door) and possibly a cashier who checked them out. I also wish that LE had asked this witness what Caylee was wearing that day.

 

[MissJames]

I've always believed Casey left her house with Caylee on Monday around noon. (As per George)
Casey drove around wasting time in order to come back to the house when George left. IMO It was at the pool that "something happened to Caylee"....
Drowning or deliberate death. The ladder was up on the pool.

Casey was always texting on her phone & may have ignored Caylee in the pool. Or it was premediated...Or both...The computer searches....
The cadaver dogs hit on an area behind the pool, the sandbox & the dollhouse.

IMO the duct tape, chloroform, etc. were just a phony way of saying Caylee was kidnapped & killed.

She felt Jesse loved Caylee more than her.
She was not going to lose Tony to "I just want to have male children"
She was ready for the good life "Bella Vita" & was not going to have Caylee stand in her way.

I just bet it will come out that someone else placed Caylee on Suburban Drive.

The duct tape would have been unnecessary if it was a drowing IMO.Also ,Cindy and George were already in coverup mode when they brought up the ladder.I think they wanted LE to believe it was an accident.I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouths.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The duct tape would have been unnecessary if it was a drowing IMO.Also ,Cindy and George were already in coverup mode when they brought up the ladder.I think they wanted LE to believe it was an accident.I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouths.

Didn't the cadaver dogs hit where the pool ladder is used ?

 

[lin]

The even happened over a Month before the child was reported missing. That is over a month before the store even knew they needed to keep the footage.

Most devices records in a loop. The lenght of time it takes to fill up, depends on how many camers are filming. Wither it's a constant film, or snap shot. Or motion triggered. Also, the quality also plays a part on how much room is needed to store the info.

If it's an old fashioned kind. The it loops over every 24 hours. So that tape would be LONG GONE. Same with 1 week, or even month.

For him to still have the tape evidence of her being in his store, either he was a 'freak' who kept a picture of a pretty girl. We shouldn't discuss it,unless we know it's true. Cause it could start embarrassing rumors that could be harmful to an innocent person.

The other would be if he had a massive hard drive. While it is a tech store, and he could get a hold of hard drives for such storage.. The kind that he would need, so that tape evidence could be used in court, would be a certified type one. One approved by the LE, that would be date and time stamped on all pictures/videos.

So there is a slim possibility that he has tape that can be used. But I wouldn't bet on it. This is one of the reasons that waiting 31 days was soooo helpful to KC.

Thanks, Spangle. Your post reminded me of an acquaintance of mine who is pretty tech savvy. Not the kind of guy that actually owns a computer store but maybe more like the kind of guy that would frequent one. At least five years ago he put surveillance on his home including a few cameras that actually emailed photos at frequent intervals. Now, if nothing happened, then no need to go through those emails but his reasoning was that if he was ever robbed they'd likely take the computer. I guess what I'm getting at is this is five years later technology-wise and this guy probably has massive computer equipment that would make my acquaintance jealous today. It may have taken quite a bit of time to go through his archives to get the proof of his statement but it actually may be available even a year later.

 

[lin]

I have a couple of questions??

Do phones ping if they are turned off? I'm sure that this has been asked and answered a million times so thanks for responding in advance.

Also, since the DP is on the table can Casey be convicted of lesser charges?

Maybe I should ask these in the questions and answers thread.

Yes, that's a good place to ask questions; also in the legal procedures thread for more specific info on the legal process. My guess as to pings is that if the phone is off that it wouldn't ping but there are many here with a lot more knowledge on that subject.

The short answer to your legal question which I know a little more about is that KC can be convicted of any offense with which she has been charged/indicted; any lesser included offense (LIO); AND under Florida law she can also be convicted of felony murder if the state asks the court to instruct on that and if the court feels the state has presented evidence to support that instruction/charge.

Of course, it should go without saying that the potential sentence would vary depending upon which charge(s) the jury chooses to render a guilty verdict but in addition to the capital or 1st degree murder charge, felony murder conviction is also eligible for a death penalty sentence.

 

[lin]

The tough sell for me is the motive & opportunity for Casey & Caylee to be in either the Casselberry Walmart OR Techbay on 6/16.

Either is doable within certain windows of time per the pings...but...

Just for grins I'll toss out there that if one is driving up S. to N. Semoran one passes in the following order:

1) Gentiva
2) Full Sail
3) Lexus of Orlando
4) Casselberry Walmart

Recall (in one of the more enjoyable long-standing unsolved mysteries, AZ?) the debate regarding the # being called beginning w/ the flurry and continuing a few more times the week of 6/16 being Lexus vs. Gentiva?

Wonder if Cindy was having some repairs done on the Toyota 4Runner @ Lexus...and was driving a loaner...hence, first call to Lexus to see if Cindy had picked up her car yet...then...not willing to wait Casey hangs up & tries Cindy's cell a few times. Casey wouldn't be able to tell from just looking @ the Gentiva parking lot if Cindy had left yet or not. :waitasec: when she drove by...so she coulda kept on driving north to kill time (pun slightly intended) and conveniently loops around in the Walmart parking lot before heading back south again. Stops long enough to run in and pass JT. Of course, it appears Cindy was @ Gentiva 'till ~6PM. Did Casey sit & wait outside Gentiva for awhile? Did she just miss Cindy walking out of Gentiva during a jaunt up past Lexus=>Walmart and back around?

Maybe a bathroom break?

 

[lin]

I was @ my local Walmart Super Center yesterday and the door on one side going out was not working and the greeter said they had been having trouble with it all week so yes I did manually open it so maybe that was the case that day with Casey and Caylee

[ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4222180&postcount=110]Here is a post from earlier in the thread, #110:[/ame]

Sorry if anyone has done this already, I am still on page one in the thread.
I made a long distance call to the Casselberry Walmart customer service lady..... they have BOTH automatic and manual doors.
She probably thought I was a NUT for asking such a goofy question!!!:crazy:

 

[lin]

Yeah, and maybe this guy speculates on whether he should get in a relationship with every single woman that crosses his path. This entire statement is freaky and gives me the willies.

Some do... just sayin' and that card BJB has may mention something about that ego a lot of the other members have...

 

[lin]

You guys are brutal. Men & women are wired differently. Rewatch Billy Crystal explaining this to Meg Ryan in "Harry met Sally". He explains it pretty succinctly.

I like cecybeans description of, "full of warts" for JT, and keying off of, "some badly phrased sentences" to draw character conclusions. IMHO, JT's not filtering out anything in his statement. I call it candor...and appreciate it for what it is.

Also hafta remark about bein', "more worried about the slick witness typics in Powerpoint presentation mode." And to tie the two points together - IRL I'd pretty squarely fall in the PowerPoint crowd...and I'm just filtering out my observations 'bout a woman being attractive in my day-to-day interactions. I can't stay employed if I say what I'm thinking on the subject - either to or about the opposite sex...it would be immediately career limiting & would be immediatley job ending in most cases. So...I learned to adapt, evolve...shut up and keep my thoughts to myself...lest I suffer the same treatment leveled against JT here in our example on WS. Call it civility...decency...sure. But don't kid yourself to think that just 'cause a man's not making these comments out loud that they're not mixed into his thoughts.

JT just didn't have his filters turned on when he wrote his statement. And, IMHO, considering the import of the situation, I'd rather get his raw thoughts & observations on the events. It helps me undertand his account better. And it seems to me he stopped far short of being crude. :twocents:

Once again, I have to agree -- the same things that are making some more doubtful seem to me to add credibility to the account.