2008.11 Events Surrounding the Casey Anthony Case

[jennyb]

No, that was a jail house recording... Lee asks ICA 'Was this like last time' to which she answered in an affirmative IIRC (don't remember if it was more than just "Yes"). But remember up until CA brought ICA home, they were both missing.

Lee went into LE mode on her in the bedroom and he never said what she replied to his questions about Caylee being missing except "Mom said I'm a bad mother blah blah'' and "Maybe I'm just a spiteful b!tch!" - remember ICA and CA started counterproductive fighting or sniping at each other while he was trying to play cop, then the cops showed up and Lee was put on hold until the jail visit.

When that recording first came out, people here (and other places) went nutz talking about another lost child etc... That made no sense to me, but if Lee was referring to ICA taking off with Caylee, that makes sense. Of course this time her boyfriend wasn't being accommodating to her circumstances, so she fixed that!

BBM. I remember it as she answered in the negative "No, not at all" or something like that.

No one's been able to find that vid though, and some say it was never said -- but I'm quite sure I heard it.

 

[NoNameLeft]

Re: the March/April timeline - When was it that CA saw the counselor for a couple of visits?

(She refused to attend anymore sessions because the counselor advised her to cut KC loose)

In Cindy's State deposition she kept it characteristically vague: possibly March and April, not sure about May. She thinks she went there 3 times.

So it looks like she started the same month she cut off Casey's spending spree and stopped counseling around the time she learned Casey also stole from her grandfather.

Cindy's Deposition July 29, 2009 This line of questioning starts on PDF page 374, line 18.

ETA: All around the net people are looking for confirmation that Lee asked 'Was this like last time'. Many people think they've heard it but nobody can find it. I highly doubt it was ever said because AFAIK all Lee's LE interviews, jail visits and phone conversations are still available online and someone would have found it by now.

 

[logicalgirl]

No, that was a jail house recording... Lee asks ICA 'Was this like last time' to which she answered in an affirmative IIRC (don't remember if it was more than just "Yes"). But remember up until CA brought ICA home, they were both missing.

Lee went into LE mode on her in the bedroom and he never said what she replied to his questions about Caylee being missing except "Mom said I'm a bad mother blah blah'' and "Maybe I'm just a spiteful b!tch!" - remember ICA and CA started counterproductive fighting or sniping at each other while he was trying to play cop, then the cops showed up and Lee was put on hold until the jail visit.

When that recording first came out, people here (and other places) went nutz talking about another lost child etc... That made no sense to me, but if Lee was referring to ICA taking off with Caylee, that makes sense. Of course this time her boyfriend wasn't being accommodating to her circumstances, so she fixed that!

Okay thanks so much. I was remembering it was during the conversation in the bedroom Lee had with ICA before Cindy came in - when he told her the police were going to be involved and they would want answers, and then the stories began. Somehow I thought this was when he asked it.

I just don't want to have to go back and listen to those jailhouse videos. I watched them so often back "then" I thought they were seared onto my brain, much to my discomfort.

 

[logicalgirl]

In Cindy's State deposition she kept it characteristically vague: possibly March and April, not sure about May. She thinks she went there 3 times.

So it looks like she started the same month she cut off Casey's spending spree and stopped counseling around the time she learned Casey also stole from her grandfather.

Cindy's Deposition July 29, 2009 This line of questioning starts on PDF page 374, line 18.

ETA: All around the net people are looking for confirmation that Lee asked 'Was this like last time'. Many people think they've heard it but nobody can find it. I highly doubt it was ever said because AFAIK all Lee's LE interviews, jail visits and phone conversations are still available online and someone would have found it by now.

I most definitely remember hearing it - because it was one of those - wait a minute - moments!:waitasec: It wasn't because someone else mentioned it - it has been stuck in my brain since the early days, when no one was even talking about it.

 

[LCoastMom]

I most definitely remember hearing it - because it was one of those - wait a minute - moments!:waitasec: It wasn't because someone else mentioned it - it has been stuck in my brain since the early days, when no one was even talking about it.

Me too! and as I said it was one of the few I actually listened to, I know my head snapped when he asked it but I never found a theory that fit the question that felt plausible to me.

Suggesting it was a replay from March - makes sense IMO.

 

[LCoastMom]

BBM. I remember it as she answered in the negative "No, not at all" or something like that.

No one's been able to find that vid though, and some say it was never said -- but I'm quite sure I heard it.

You could be right - she may have said no. I felt like she gave an affirmative but the answer feels vague to me and it doesn't really matter because either way it was probably a lie!! :maddening:

 

[NoNameLeft]

I most definitely remember hearing it - because it was one of those - wait a minute - moments!:waitasec: It wasn't because someone else mentioned it - it has been stuck in my brain since the early days, when no one was even talking about it.

And you're not alone logicalgirl, there are quite a few people who have a vivid recollection of that particular moment :blowkiss:

The only remedy is methodically going through all Lee's tapes. I apologize for not offering any help. I have searched for this once and I couldn't find it at that time. That doesn't say anything of course, but I just can't stomach to go back to those jail videos again. For some reason he really annoys me with his giggling and code speak.

 

[Itsy]

I don't have a link either, but do remember the convo. Lee asked her in a jail visit & she said yes. He said OK, and I believe asked if he should look in familiar places. After that, I'm fuzzy. (brain is fuzzy anyway tonight, lol)

 

[A_News_Junkie]

As requested and still in time for Valentine's Day!!!!!!! Here are the Jail Visits as prepared by my friend and I for your sleuthing pleasure!

[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] Casey's Jail Visitors
[/FONT]October 15 - December 30, 2008
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] (Per Orange County Jail Log)
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] http://www.docstoc.com/docs/48132426/Casey-Anthony-Jail-Visitation-Log-from-Oct-2008---July-22-2010
[/FONT]
Notes:
- Duration of attorney visits was ~1 to ~1.5 hours, unless stated otherwise.
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]- Attorney visits were perhaps not as likely on court days (not noted here).
[/FONT][FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]- Gaps in visitation dates shown. Attorneys typically did not visit on weekends.
[/FONT]
--- OCTOBER 2008 ---

[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] 15th(Wed) 8:21p Jose Baez
[/FONT]==>Casey's first full day in jail after her murder arrest.
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]
16th(Thu) 8:49p Gabe Adam until 11:25 [~2.5hrs]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] 17th(Fri) --no visit--
[/FONT]
18th (Sat) 11:10a Jose Baez until 1:14p
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] +
[/FONT]18th(Sat) 11:16a Terence Lenamon until 1:14p
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] ==> Baez/Lenamon visited together on a Saturday.
[/FONT]
19th(Sun) --no visit--

20th (Mon) 10:20p Jose Baez

[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] 21st(Tue) --no visit--
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]22nd(Wed) 6:46p Jose Garcia until 7:50p [~1hr][/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]+[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] 22nd(Wed) 7:38p Jose Baez until 8:37p [~1hr] [/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] ==> Visits overlapped, tag-team style.
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif] 23rd(Thu) --no visit--
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial narrow,sans-serif]24th(Fri) 11:42a Shane Stutzman [Logged out 11:43a(?)]
[/FONT]==> Eastside Baptist Church minister; allowed 1 monthly visit, per media.
==> Stutzman was logged in for only 1min.Did Casey refuse his visit?
+
24th(Fri) 6:54p Jose Baez

25th(Sat) --no visit--
26th(Sun) --no visit--

27th(Mon) 8:28p Jose Baez

28th(Tue) 9:52p Jose Garcia 12:13a [>2hrs]

29th(Wed) 8:52p Jose Baez

30th(Thu) 9:43p Gabe Adam

31st(Fri) 6:05p Jose Garcia
==> Halloween


--- NOVEMBER 2008 ---

1st(Sat) --no visit--
2nd(Sun) --no visit--

3rd(Mon) 7:35p Jose Baez

4th(Tue) 6:41p Jose Garcia

5th(Wed) 7:38p Matthew Troccoli until 8:30p
+
5th(Wed) 7:39p Mike Walsh until 8:30p
+
5th(Wed) 7:42p Jose Baez until 9:33p
==> Troccoli, Walsh, Baez arrived together.
==> After Troccoli/Walsh left, Baez stayed another hour.

6th(Thu) 8:47p Gabe Adam

7th(Fri) 4:59pm Jose Baez until 6:26p
+
7th(Fri) 10:29pm Jose Baez until 11:18p
==> Baez made two visits on this evening.

8th(Sat) --no visit--

9th(Sun) 7:00p Jose Garcia until 2:45a(!?) [nearly 8hrs?]
==> Sunday evening visit.
==> Did Garcia actually spend the night at the jail?

10th(Mon) 9:17p Jose Baez

11th(Tue) 7:03p Jose Garcia

12th(Wed) 6:45p Jose Baez

13th(Thu) 10:49p Jose Baez until 11:43p
+
13th(Thu) 11:28p Jose Garcia until 11:43p
==> Garcia showed up for the final 15min. of Baez's visit.

14th(Fri) --no visit--

15th(Sat) 4:55 Jose Baez
==> Weekend visit.
==> Day of the "Meet&Greet."
==> Day of DC/JH Suburban search.

16th(Sun) --no visit--
17th(Mon) --no visit--

18th(Tue) 7:15p Jose Baez

19th(Wed) 7:09p Jose Baez until 8:50p
+
19th(Wed) 7:11p Jose Garcia until 8:50p
==> Baez/Garcia visited together.

20th(Thu) --no visit--
21st(Fri) --no visit--
22nd(Sat) --no visit--

23rd(Sun) 10:53p Jose Garcia until 12:49a [approx.2hrs]
==> Late-night weekend visit, following 3 visitless days.

24th(Mon) --no visit--

25th(Tue) 8:31p Jose Baez

26th(Wed) 8:30p Jose Baez

27th(Thu) --no visit--
==> Thanksgiving Day
28th(Fri) --no visit--
==> Day after Thanksgiving

29th(Sat) 8:07a Jose Garcia until 10:31a [nearly 2.5 hrs]
==> Long, early-morning, weekend visit.

30th(Sun) 5:07p Jose Baez
==> Another weekend visit.


--- DECEMBER 2008 ---

1st(Mon) 6:59p Jose Garcia

2nd(Tue) 8:45p Gabe Adam

3rd(Wed) 7:40p Jose Baez until 9:33p [nearly 2 hrs]

4th(Thu) 8:39p Jose Garcia until 10:31p [nearly 2 hrs]
==> Casey's jail visit videos released.​

5th(Fri) 9:22a Shane Stutzman until 11:35am [>2 hrs]
+
5th(Fri) 3:19p Jose Baez until 6:37p [nearly 3.5 hrs]
==> Long morning visit from minister.
==> Long uncharacteristic afternoon visit from Baez.
==> State announced they will not be seeking the DP.
​

6th(Sat) --no visit--
7th(Sun) --no visit--

8th(Mon) 8:47p Gabe Adam

9th(Tue) 8:45p Gabe Adam [<1hr]

10th(Wed) 9:44p Gabe Adam until 4:39a(!?) [nearly 6 hours]
==> Adam visited 3 days in a row; Baez did not visit.
==> George and Cindy in L.A.; appeared on Larry King Live.
==> If times are correct, Adam spent the night at the jail.
==> This is the night before Casey's pretrial hearing.
==> This is the night before Caylee's remains were discovered.

11th(Thu) 11:55a Jose Baez until 1:33p
+
11th(Thu) 4:42p Jose Garcia until 8:23p [> 3.5 hrs]
+
11th(Thu) 8:04p Jose Baez until 9:05p
==> There was a brief pretrial scheduling hearing at 9:00a.
==> Casey may have stayed up all night the night before.(?)
==> Casey was not required to attend the hearing.
==> Skeletal remains of a small child were found on Suburban Dr.
==> Garcia/Baez visits overlapped in the evening.

12th(Fri) --no visit--
13th(Sat) --no visit--

14th(Sun) 10:27a Jose Garcia

15th(Mon) 7:16a Gabe Adam until 7:42a [26min]
+
15th(Mon) 7:28a Jose Garcia until 7:42a [14min]
+
15th(Mon) 6:56p Jose Garcia until 8:30p

==> Adam/Garcia left together after brief early-morning visits.
==> Garcia returned that evening for a 1.5-hr visit.

16th(Tue) 9:35a Shane Stutzman until 12:45p [3+ hrs]

17th(Wed) 10:31p Jose Baez until 11:07p [36min]

18th(Thu) 6:40a Jose Garcia until 7:35a [~1hr]
+
18th(Thu) 7:07p Gabe Adam
==> Very early visit from Garcia.
==> Two visits in one day.
==> Night before announcement next day: Remains ID'd.

19th(Fri) 11:41a Jose Garcia until 3:21p [3.5 hrs]
+
19th(Fri) 1:59p Shane Stutzman until 2:18p [19min]
+
19th(Fri) 2:32p Jose Baez until 3:21p [~1hr]
==> At a 2pm press conference, remains are ID'd as Caylee's.
==> Garcia arrived, Stutzman for 19min., then Baez arrived.
==> Garcia & Baez left together.
+
19th(Fri) 8:46p Gabe Adam until 9:49p [~1hr]​

20th(Sat) --no visit--
21st(Sun) --no visit--

22nd(Mon) 8:04p Jose Baez

23rd(Tue) --no visit--
24th(Wed) --no visit--
==> Christmas Eve
25th(Thu) --no visit--
==> Christmas Day

26th(Fri) 8:25p Jose Baez until 9:18p
+
26th(Fri) 8:27p Jose Garcia until 9:18p
==> Day after Christmas.
==> Baez/Garcia visited together, for less than 1 hr.

27th(Sat) --no visit--
28th(Sun) --no visit--
29th(Mon) --no visit--

30th(Tue) 8:24p Jose Baez

31st(Wed) --no visit--
==> New Year's Eve
​

 

[ZsaZsa]

Me too! and as I said it was one of the few I actually listened to, I know my head snapped when he asked it but I never found a theory that fit the question that felt plausible to me.

Suggesting it was a replay from March - makes sense IMO.

I thought it was discussed in Lee's jail visit to Casey. IIRC it was part 1 of this video [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-DK2Cd0RM&feature=related[/ame] which was soon removed from You rube..
If you can find part one anywhere that might answer the question

ETA- here is part 1- right at the start of the conversation ( it is very difficult to hear him) he says something about "a lot like last time" but maybe those with more acute hearing than I can make out exactly what he says..

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206783/index.html

 

[NoNameLeft]

That is Lee's July 25 jail visit. You can watch the whole visit on WFTV. The links were already posted by [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6127016&postcount=80]A News Junkie[/ame]

ETA: You beat me to it, ZsaZsa

ETA 2: That last link you gave this is from July 28. But the July 25 visit is also on WFTV. That's where Lee mentions looking in familiar places like Itsy said.

 

[ynotdivein]

Um, ANJ... what was up with the late-Sunday-night Jose Garcia visit on 11/23???

(Not sayin' you would know what was up there. But interesting that it's JG and two days after CA's "silent" interview....) And thank you and your friend both!

 

[seeing_eye]

belle, not OT at all, and don't be sorry! WSers have found so many significant links while filling in the blanks--and I too wonder about March, did KC vanish with Caylee for some time? Will have to go back through the pings and whatnot...

But overall, I don't think that the altercation the night of June 15 had to be about money in order for it to prompt KC to kill Caylee. I really suspect it had more to do with the drive to and from Mt. Dora, and Caylee telling CiCi what her life was like with KC. And even then--IMO that fight could have been about anything. And once CA and KC went at it, I bet there was no past wrongdoing that was off-limits for CA to throw at KC, no matter how long ago. The next day, KC was alone with Caylee, and Caylee was bugging her, and KC chose to very permanently shut her up. :cow:

As for events around Nov. 2008--having read all these timelines, I am even more convinced that CA *knew* Caylee was dead, *knew* KC did it, and *knew* about the duct tape or some other evidence that it was murder, during her "silent" interview.

(Wonder if the State will be able to question CA or GA about that interview at trial?)

I believe Cindy knew Caylee was dead when she and George got the car from the towyard, and they began cover-up mode. I think Cindy knew the approximate location of Caylee's remains and knew DCasey was "in the woods" looking for them. I do think the "silent" interview came about when Cindy first learned of the duct tape and its placement on Caylee's skull. Or perhaps the "silent" interview could be explained if DCasey had discovered some of Caylee's remains and informed Cindy that the remains were too scattered to retrieve it and/or move it. This is JMO.

 

[ynotdivein]

I believe Cindy knew Caylee was dead when she and George got the car from the towyard, and they began cover-up mode. I think Cindy knew the approximate location of Caylee's remains and knew DCasey was "in the woods" looking for them. I do think the "silent" interview came about when Cindy first learned of the duct tape and its placement on Caylee's skull. Or perhaps the "silent" interview could be explained if DCasey had discovered some of Caylee's remains and informed Cindy that the remains were too scattered to retrieve it and/or move it. This is JMO.

seeing_eye, I am with you about Cindy's "silent" interview being shortly after she learned of the duct tape. I believe, after CA/GA brought the car back from the towyard they must both have known what the smell was and they both knew it was not pizza. But I can see CA fooling herself to believe that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't Caylee. Until 11/20 when her own PI (DC) brought her back confirmation that it could have been nothing else but murder. I do think CA learned shortly before 11/20 that duct tape was involved. At the very least she knew that DC had poked his stick through a Pooh blanket that CA knew very very intimately.

 

[LCoastMom]

As requested and still in time for Valentine's Day!!!!!!! Here are the Jail Visits as prepared by my friend and I for your sleuthing pleasure!

Oh My :yourock:

Just hitting the :gthanks: was not enough!

Happy :cupcake: Day to you!

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Um, ANJ... what was up with the late-Sunday-night Jose Garcia visit on 11/23???

(Not sayin' you would know what was up there. But interesting that it's JG and two days after CA's "silent" interview....) And thank you and your friend both!

Only thing I can think of is the FBI videos were coming out for days then. It shows Cindy part 10 was uploaded on WFTV on the 24th
( http://www.wftv.com/video/18052101/index.html ) so maybe this is when KC was finding out how much 'support' or lack of her parents were showing to her innocence?????? Maybe those interviews caused pause to the team - thus the long late nighter?
(Or maybe this is the night the crush started? LOL)

 

[cmsg2002]

seeing_eye, I am with you about Cindy's "silent" interview being shortly after she learned of the duct tape. I believe, after CA/GA brought the car back from the towyard they must both have known what the smell was and they both knew it was not pizza. But I can see CA fooling herself to believe that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't Caylee. Until 11/20 when her own PI (DC) brought her back confirmation that it could have been nothing else but murder. I do think CA learned shortly before 11/20 that duct tape was involved. At the very least she knew that DC had poked his stick through a Pooh blanket that CA knew very very intimately.

BBM....has this been confirmed? I haven't seen or read this anywhere??

 

[ZsaZsa]

Was GA's 'girlfriend' in the picture at this time? If CA knew of that relationship it might also have been something that tipped her over the edge....

 

[belle3]

BBM. I remember it as she answered in the negative "No, not at all" or something like that.

No one's been able to find that vid though, and some say it was never said -- but I'm quite sure I heard it.

This is exactly what i remember as well.She said NO! I know I heard it and saw it and then it disappeared. Can the SA take back something they released if they did so by accident?? Is that the reason we cant find it anywhere?? i swear i heard it with my own two ears.

 

[LCoastMom]

Yes, Mallory has been here sine the beginning.

On 12/11/08, LE escorted her out of the A Camp after she supposedly stopped by to feed the pets, very shortly after the remains were found.