2008.06.16 James T. says he saw Caylee alive around Noon #1
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cecybeans
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I find the 3:02 set of calls from GA the most interesting. To call KC right at the start of his shift (assuming it was 3-11) means to me he wanted to check and see if she might be home. Which makes me think she was up and out of there earlier and GA did not actually see them leave the house.
The "flurry" to CA could have been several things. KC might have been seeing, if CA picked up, when she would be expected home in order to gauge her getaway window. I'm sure we'll never know if she left a message (particularly one that might delay CA, like "Mom, can you stop by the store on the way home and pick up some milk for Caylee?" or something). Or, it could have been that she wanted someone to babysit Caylee, as many have speculated. OR she might have left CA the message GA said KC uttered on the way out, that she would be at work and Caylee was staying at the nanny's; just a CYA so that CA radar would not alert and she wouldn't be calling KC's cellphone at midnight to tell her to come home.
If Caylee was already dead at this time, it would be the first cover-up call. I have a feeling the next one (the Tampa trip on the 18th) would net several long, very detailed descriptions of what she was doing to quiet CA and keep her from prying as to why the baby had not been home in a couple of days. If Caylee was not already dead, and these were babysitter requests, she certainly didn't wait long for Plan B, which may have been to medicate KC, duct tape her and put her in the trunk and drive to Tony's.
The "flurry" to CA could have been several things. KC might have been seeing, if CA picked up, when she would be expected home in order to gauge her getaway window. I'm sure we'll never know if she left a message (particularly one that might delay CA, like "Mom, can you stop by the store on the way home and pick up some milk for Caylee?" or something). Or, it could have been that she wanted someone to babysit Caylee, as many have speculated. OR she might have left CA the message GA said KC uttered on the way out, that she would be at work and Caylee was staying at the nanny's; just a CYA so that CA radar would not alert and she wouldn't be calling KC's cellphone at midnight to tell her to come home.
If Caylee was already dead at this time, it would be the first cover-up call. I have a feeling the next one (the Tampa trip on the 18th) would net several long, very detailed descriptions of what she was doing to quiet CA and keep her from prying as to why the baby had not been home in a couple of days. If Caylee was not already dead, and these were babysitter requests, she certainly didn't wait long for Plan B, which may have been to medicate KC, duct tape her and put her in the trunk and drive to Tony's.
Okay, so not to burst a bubble, but a warning bell went off in my head when the guy mentions Caylee opening a heavy door by herself to Walmart. I realize that not all Walmart stores are the same, but every Walmart I've ever been in has double automatic doors. Has anyone been to the Maitland Store that can confirm they have a door you have to manually open to get in?
Thank you so much for replying.
So, theoretically, this places Casey and Caylee at the Walmart AFTER the flurry of calls...
The first "flurry" 6/16 that was the focus of initial media reports occurred as Casey pulled outta G&C's beginning her trip up towards the area of Tony's apartment beginning @ 4:10PM (6 calls in ~5mins). The details in the post linked below pick it up from there...and offer some timeframes of cell inactivity and how each might fit potential trips to Walmart.
Details...if you dare... here (link) :
I read the details, very interesting! Thanks for replying.
Tuffy
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Yep! I just got back from one.
The front facing doors are automatic, and the side doors are manual.
magic-cat
Mother to Many
Casey did not even HAVE a desktop computer and she had NO money...so why was she shopping for a monitor again? That doesn't make any sense to me...unless she just hated the one they had at home and was looking FOR Cindy OR her boyfriend had mentioned wanting a new one and being the dutiful little girlfriend was helping him find one...?????
magic-cat
Mother to Many
Also the thread title says he saw them at noon and in his tv interview he said it was around 4:00 in the afternoon...so which is it?
magic-cat
Mother to Many
I want this guy to be saying the truth SOOOOOO badly! I PRAY that he is and that Walmart still had the video from that day so long after the fact...but the fact he did not come forward for SOOOOOOOOO long send off the alerts in my head...
Micheline
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I don't think James Thompson is credible for a number of reasons, which I want to go over if that is ok.
He stepped forward a year later, I have seen it being suggested maybe he went to LE last year already, but if that were the case I would guess Zenaida's lawyer would have wanted to question him, since he puts Caylee in the company of Casey in the afternoon of June 16 instead of being kidnapped by his client. Therefor I do think he only came forward this summer.
His statement is completely dressed up by current knowledge, and by him doing so he fails to mention the logical, for example;
He sees Casey in Wal-Mart and gets upset how Casey is a heartless mother for letting her child walk behind her 10 feet.
But at that time he did not knew Casey nor Caylee, it would be only logical to assume Caylee had a father, and that he would be right behind Caylee, Caylee maybe running/walking ahead of him to her mother.
Of course he knew on July 2009 there was no father Caylee's life, but he did not knew that on June 16 2008, yet while making all these observations, facial expressions and conclusions it never crossed his mind the father may be right behind them, he did not even check for this if only to make sure no male would get offended over him approaching Casey as was his initial plan.
Then the meeting at Wal-Mart, he says Casey walked out of the Wal-Mart at the point he was coming in, two people walking into a different direction goes by twice as fast as one person walking out time/interaction wise. It takes less then two seconds for two persons to walk past each others in a 8 meter hallway. So he was walking in, and she was walking out, he recognises her immediately, sees what kind of clothes she wears and decides he wants to approach her to ask if she succeeded in finding a monitor yet, but then he notices Caylee is not with her, and sees Caylee walking 10 feet behind Casey having to go through a door by herself (regardless if it opened automatically or not) . He feels sorry for the little girl, wonder why she isn't in school or daycare, and how sad it is her mother is not helping her, looking out for her. He notices Caylee looks angry and had a determined look on her face. He concludes Casey is a heartless woman which he did not need in his life, and based upon these observations he kept walking into Wal-Mart without stopping Casey to talk to her.
--All these thoughts and observations and his final conclusion about Casey upon which he based his decision to continue walking, must then have taking place in those 2 seconds in which Casey and he crossed paths, one going in and one going out of Walmart, that doesn't make any sense, imo.
The first encounter, same thing, also filled with knowledge he did not have back then.
He mentions how the mother was seemingly upset and jealous of the attention her daughter got.
James did not know if Casey was Caylee's mother, she could have been the baby sitter or taking her nice out for a day, He never mentions he asked Casey if Caylee was her daughter neither did he mention asking Caylee if Casey was her mother. He just assumed it, which may be a normal conclusion, woman with her child, but he did not knew. Of course he knew by the time he gave that statement.
Him mentioning the jealousy of Casey (even if he thought she was the babysitter) to me also looks like knowledge he gathered later on by Jesse's statements.
Like he himself claims she was such a pretty girl, why did he not assume she had a pretty husband sitting home who showered her with attention? Why would this pretty girl crave for his attention, the idea alone that he felt that way (plus the "I didn't need another heartless woman in my life) seems James is not in touch with reality.
For all he knew she was teaching her child never to accept gifts or candy from strangers, or did not approve of his selling techniques, why the instant thought of a jealous mother, it doesn;t make sense, imo.
Lee and others said Casey always carried her laptop around with her, but not when she went to James store? Per his statement he asked her if her laptop had an external video port, had the laptop been there he could have checked, it doesn't make much sense to me if Casey wanted to buy a monitor for her laptop with a stolen cheque that she would not bring her laptop into the store.
He claims he felt what he witnessed was not of importance, while it was all over the news that Caylee was missing since June 16 (June 9 even initially), did he not think that maybe Caylee had went missing that afternoon, because Casey wasn't paying attention to her, had her walk 10 feet behind her behind a closed door even? How could his knowledge not be of importance then?
He claims when he asked Caylee what her name was that she responded "Caylee". To my recollection George mentioned proudly in an interview whenever someone asked Caylee's name she would always say her full name "Caylee Marie Anthony". If the guy recalls a year later the girl mentions her name was Caylee and all the other details would he then not recall this little girl told him her full name?
Everything in his statement is dressed up with after the fact knowledge all his assumptions were right on the mark which makes him seem like a credible and observant witness, but to me it results in the opposite because all these things are not logical first instance assumptions for an outsider to have. IMO
He stepped forward a year later, I have seen it being suggested maybe he went to LE last year already, but if that were the case I would guess Zenaida's lawyer would have wanted to question him, since he puts Caylee in the company of Casey in the afternoon of June 16 instead of being kidnapped by his client. Therefor I do think he only came forward this summer.
His statement is completely dressed up by current knowledge, and by him doing so he fails to mention the logical, for example;
He sees Casey in Wal-Mart and gets upset how Casey is a heartless mother for letting her child walk behind her 10 feet.
But at that time he did not knew Casey nor Caylee, it would be only logical to assume Caylee had a father, and that he would be right behind Caylee, Caylee maybe running/walking ahead of him to her mother.
Of course he knew on July 2009 there was no father Caylee's life, but he did not knew that on June 16 2008, yet while making all these observations, facial expressions and conclusions it never crossed his mind the father may be right behind them, he did not even check for this if only to make sure no male would get offended over him approaching Casey as was his initial plan.
Then the meeting at Wal-Mart, he says Casey walked out of the Wal-Mart at the point he was coming in, two people walking into a different direction goes by twice as fast as one person walking out time/interaction wise. It takes less then two seconds for two persons to walk past each others in a 8 meter hallway. So he was walking in, and she was walking out, he recognises her immediately, sees what kind of clothes she wears and decides he wants to approach her to ask if she succeeded in finding a monitor yet, but then he notices Caylee is not with her, and sees Caylee walking 10 feet behind Casey having to go through a door by herself (regardless if it opened automatically or not) . He feels sorry for the little girl, wonder why she isn't in school or daycare, and how sad it is her mother is not helping her, looking out for her. He notices Caylee looks angry and had a determined look on her face. He concludes Casey is a heartless woman which he did not need in his life, and based upon these observations he kept walking into Wal-Mart without stopping Casey to talk to her.
--All these thoughts and observations and his final conclusion about Casey upon which he based his decision to continue walking, must then have taking place in those 2 seconds in which Casey and he crossed paths, one going in and one going out of Walmart, that doesn't make any sense, imo.
The first encounter, same thing, also filled with knowledge he did not have back then.
He mentions how the mother was seemingly upset and jealous of the attention her daughter got.
James did not know if Casey was Caylee's mother, she could have been the baby sitter or taking her nice out for a day, He never mentions he asked Casey if Caylee was her daughter neither did he mention asking Caylee if Casey was her mother. He just assumed it, which may be a normal conclusion, woman with her child, but he did not knew. Of course he knew by the time he gave that statement.
Him mentioning the jealousy of Casey (even if he thought she was the babysitter) to me also looks like knowledge he gathered later on by Jesse's statements.
Like he himself claims she was such a pretty girl, why did he not assume she had a pretty husband sitting home who showered her with attention? Why would this pretty girl crave for his attention, the idea alone that he felt that way (plus the "I didn't need another heartless woman in my life) seems James is not in touch with reality.
For all he knew she was teaching her child never to accept gifts or candy from strangers, or did not approve of his selling techniques, why the instant thought of a jealous mother, it doesn;t make sense, imo.
Lee and others said Casey always carried her laptop around with her, but not when she went to James store? Per his statement he asked her if her laptop had an external video port, had the laptop been there he could have checked, it doesn't make much sense to me if Casey wanted to buy a monitor for her laptop with a stolen cheque that she would not bring her laptop into the store.
He claims he felt what he witnessed was not of importance, while it was all over the news that Caylee was missing since June 16 (June 9 even initially), did he not think that maybe Caylee had went missing that afternoon, because Casey wasn't paying attention to her, had her walk 10 feet behind her behind a closed door even? How could his knowledge not be of importance then?
He claims when he asked Caylee what her name was that she responded "Caylee". To my recollection George mentioned proudly in an interview whenever someone asked Caylee's name she would always say her full name "Caylee Marie Anthony". If the guy recalls a year later the girl mentions her name was Caylee and all the other details would he then not recall this little girl told him her full name?
Everything in his statement is dressed up with after the fact knowledge all his assumptions were right on the mark which makes him seem like a credible and observant witness, but to me it results in the opposite because all these things are not logical first instance assumptions for an outsider to have. IMO
Mystic
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Doesn't JT say she was wearing "hot" shorts? Maybe he meant "hot Pants" (dating myself:crazy
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/17841181/detail.html
Top isn't showing any cleavage that I can see-but,who knows, maybe they have already had a "quickie" before they went to rent a movie?:waitasec:
I can see where the shorts could be considered as JT described but it's too blurry to see the top clearly.
sleutherontheside
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I believe the "discrepancy" in time of day when JT allegedly saw KC is due to him stating her saw her around his lunch. I WILL go back and review the statement, but it has been suggested, that because his store was open until 9PM that when he referred to his lunchtime, he could have based that upon the time he usually considered to be lunch. I will go look right now so I can support my statements, but this topic has been hashed quite a bit and that is the general explanation that WSers have conceded to regarding his timeframe. That theory has also been supported by the June 16 ping threads. BRB off to get the threads.
BondJamesBond
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magic-cat
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Hey Bond...I have gone over your wonderfully detailed pinging match up and the only problem that I have with your favorite choice of times (the 15 minute visit to Walmart) is the time. The witness states outright he saw her around 4:00 so I think we would have to work from that don't you? :blushing:
magic-cat
Mother to Many
Another thing that I wonder is this: since it was discussed that his store is open until 9:00 pm. and his lunch hour is likely at or about the 4:00 pm time when he claims to have seen Caylee and Casey, is THAT what he was doing at Walmart? Was he getting lunch there that day? Or did he even state what his purpose was for being there at that time on that particular day?
BondJamesBond
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Hi, MC. :wave:
Nothing rules out any one of the four 'candidates', IMHO. Like everything else w/ this case you just kinda hafta consider what the most 'solid' piece of information you have is for any given event...and build your options around that IYKWIM. That's why I use the cell pings as a starting point for almost everything...although imperfect...they are about as objective a 'witness' to the events as we can get, IMHO.
Nothing wrong w/ taking "4a" and having things fall into place w/ Casey being dressed for "work"...going to Walmart for an uberquick trip :takeoff: before ending up @ Tony's. It's certainly possible.
There's also nothing that says Casey didn't make more than one trip away from Tony's apartment before Blockbuster. For example..."4a" to Walmart for whatever, then, "4d" to somewhere closeby for the 'final act' w/ Caylee. The 6:30PM 'flurry' behavior is just too tempting for me to ignore as a sign of Casey in transition mode.
IRule254
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The side doors are usually not automatic., but I am not sure whether or not the witness stated which set of doors he was referring to.
LambChop
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Clearly Caylee was KC's daughter as Caylee looked like her mother. Maybe Caylee called her mother "Mommy" while sitting there or JT indeed may have learned Caylee was KC's child after the fact. KC had no wedding ring on her finger and what man does not check that out right away. Plus children do not always say their whole name even if they do so often and particularly if they are acting shy. We all know KC was an outrageous flirt by her text messages to her male friends.
Plus not everyone in Orlando is as consumed by this case as we are here at WS. I have been down to Orlando and there is more news here at home than I saw down there. It is an entertainment community and geared to tourists so if you are working until 9pm every night your focus is probably not on the local news. Men are more likely to have a baseball, football or basketball game on at that time of the day. Not to say JT was not aware of what was going on, just not aware that what he saw, if true, was vital information. Obviously someone he may have told his story to told him he needed to notify the police because it was important information.
We have all witnessed things that we hesitate to report because we are either unsure of what we have seen or feel someone else will report it. Surely LE and SA feel what JT has to report is significant and there may be documented material to back up his claim, we just don't know....yet. We can only hope because what he has to say is significant for SA's timeline. JMO
Plus not everyone in Orlando is as consumed by this case as we are here at WS. I have been down to Orlando and there is more news here at home than I saw down there. It is an entertainment community and geared to tourists so if you are working until 9pm every night your focus is probably not on the local news. Men are more likely to have a baseball, football or basketball game on at that time of the day. Not to say JT was not aware of what was going on, just not aware that what he saw, if true, was vital information. Obviously someone he may have told his story to told him he needed to notify the police because it was important information.
We have all witnessed things that we hesitate to report because we are either unsure of what we have seen or feel someone else will report it. Surely LE and SA feel what JT has to report is significant and there may be documented material to back up his claim, we just don't know....yet. We can only hope because what he has to say is significant for SA's timeline. JMO
cecybeans
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If the "flurry of calls" was KC giving her parents one last chance to "rescue" Caylee by babysitting, she may have used that to justify whatever came next. This family is all about assigning blame to others (which is typical criminal mindset). I can so see her telling herself "well, you TRIED to give them a chance to prevent this, but they just didn't take it, so it's not like you had a choice" to check the box marked "Conscience", for which, of course, is a bar the entire family seems to have set set incredibly low.
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