2008.07.23 Amy H. Interview

[Solace]

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I agree misinformed, I remember back when I first heard CA's account of this encounter. I remember her talking to detectives and she said that she knew instantly that Caylee wasn't in that apt. due to the cig. smoke. But even if one believes her I still can't understand it. Her whole purpose & goal in locating KC was to find Caylee. So......when you found your daughter, wouldn't the first words out of your mouth be...."WHERE IS CAYLEE?" ??? Like, I just imagine myself in that spot, and I'd be pouncing.....I be all over it....."WHERE IS XXXXX?"!!!!!! I wouldn't care who heard me, I don't imagine that it would matter that my gut told me that she isn't in this apt as it's full of smoke, I think if I had gone to the trouble of chasing down the BF..going and picking up the BF, having BF take me to my daughter, when I finally came face to face with daughter.....I'd get to the point, no beating around the bush, no pleasantries, no trying to put up a front for appearances sake......I'd be after it. Ya know? So, the fact that Caylee wasn't even brought up in that apt???? It's a mystery to me. I just don't GET IT!?


:cow:

Tony Lazzaro says she came right in and said something to the effect hope you havent given her any money - youll never see it again. Cindy tells Linda DB over and over again - she did not argue with KC in front of Amy or the others in the apartment because she does not do that in front of people and she is not that type of mother. Amy says they argued all the way back to her apartment.

I guess Cindy believes that if she says it (as KC does) it is to be believed. We have Tony Amy and another person who saw Cindy that evening come in and at one point KC tells her to shut up. They most certainly did argue that night in front of everyone and in the past. Cindy goes on to explain that she just wanted to grab KC and shake her but she doesn't do that either because she never touches her children. She says this over and over again during her interview with LDB. They are beyond juvenile with these statements that they think everyone will believe.

 

[Aedrys]

Tony Lazzaro says she came right in and said something to the effect hope you havent given her any money - youll never see it again. Cindy tells Linda DB over and over again - she did not argue with KC in front of Amy or the others in the apartment because she does not do that in front of people and she is not that type of mother. Amy says they argued all the way back to her apartment.

I guess Cindy believes that if she says it (as KC does) it is to be believed. We have Tony Amy and another person who saw Cindy that evening come in and at one point KC tells her to shut up. They most certainly did argue that night in front of everyone and in the past. Cindy goes on to explain that she just wanted to grab KC and shake her but she doesn't do that either because she never touches her children. She says this over and over again during her interview with LDB. They are beyond juvenile with these statements that they think everyone will believe.

I remember her saying the same thing in court in the 911 hearing. It's like she went back and put her own positive, peaceful spin on what happened. I bet Amy H and Tony just wanted to spit nails if they were watching it. And even Casey had to be mad that her mother was up on the stand, acting like she did nothing wrong and would never do anything wrong in front of people. Yeah, Cindy, we're just going to believe that you were nice as can be, and it was a lovely day when you realized Caylee was missing. Whatever, dream on.

 

[Solace]

I remember her saying the same thing in court in the 911 hearing. It's like she went back and put her own positive, peaceful spin on what happened. I bet Amy H and Tony just wanted to spit nails if they were watching it. And even Casey had to be mad that her mother was up on the stand, acting like she did nothing wrong and would never do anything wrong in front of people. Yeah, Cindy, we're just going to believe that you were nice as can be, and it was a lovely day when you realized Caylee was missing. Whatever, dream on.

Yep, I have to look at her on the stand again. I don't remember that.Thanks Aedrys.

 

[nyvictoria]

I remember her saying the same thing in court in the 911 hearing. It's like she went back and put her own positive, peaceful spin on what happened. I bet Amy H and Tony just wanted to spit nails if they were watching it. And even Casey had to be mad that her mother was up on the stand, acting like she did nothing wrong and would never do anything wrong in front of people. Yeah, Cindy, we're just going to believe that you were nice as can be, and it was a lovely day when you realized Caylee was missing. Whatever, dream on.

IIRC, in addition to virtually calling Amy a liar, she added another little tidbit of Cindy-spin. She said she respected Casey. I was floored when I heard Cindy use the word respect with regard to Casey. Talk about mistruth!

 

[wildchild1961]

So......when you found your daughter, wouldn't the first words out of your mouth be...."WHERE IS CAYLEE?" ??? Like, I just imagine myself in that spot, and I'd be pouncing.....I be all over it....."WHERE IS XXXXX?"!!!!!! I wouldn't care who heard me, I don't imagine that it would matter that my gut told me that she isn't in this apt as it's full of smoke, I think if I had gone to the trouble of chasing down the BF..going and picking up the BF, having BF take me to my daughter, when I finally came face to face with daughter.....I'd get to the point, no beating around the bush, no pleasantries, no trying to put up a front for appearances sake......I'd be after it. Ya know? So, the fact that Caylee wasn't even brought up in that apt???? It's a mystery to me. I just don't GET IT!?


:cow:

BBM... to borrow a quote from Cindy's mom, Shirley .. (and switch the two key players in it) ... maybe Cindy hated Casey more than she loved Caylee...

wild

 

[Aedrys]

Yep, I have to look at her on the stand again. I don't remember that.Thanks Aedrys.

They didn't talk about it in a lot of detail, just went over what happened that day leading up to the 911 calls. I'm sure the interview was in a lot more detail, but Cindy did gloss over everything in the 911 hearing like it was a perfect day except for Caylee being missing, and that wasn't even a big deal either. Nice try, Cindy. LDB sooooooooo outplayed her that hearing. It was awesome!

 

[Solace]

They didn't talk about it in a lot of detail, just went over what happened that day leading up to the 911 calls. I'm sure the interview was in a lot more detail, but Cindy did gloss over everything in the 911 hearing like it was a perfect day except for Caylee being missing, and that wasn't even a big deal either. Nice try, Cindy. LDB sooooooooo outplayed her that hearing. It was awesome!

Yep, just listened to Cindy and she says no I did not argue with KC in front of Amy or anyone "I respect my daughter".

Meanwhile, back at the Amy interview, Amy says Cindy was barely holding it together and that she told her KC was an unfit mother and she was going to go for custody if things didn't change. She was very worried about Caylee, told Amy all about the stealing KC did, told Amy about the no clothes party and KC had told her that Cindy printed a picture of her and said "you were working, huh". told Amy forget about the money, that money is gone.

when they got to Tony's it was back and forth yelling and she just pointed to Cindy when KC opened the door - creepy in itself.

Okay, so you know all of this. What is with Cindy. Here I go again. Is she hoping that Baez is going to present Amy as a drug addict on the stand and no one would believe any of this. Because it is just absurd the amount of lying that is going on. And Cindy is still doing it. What the #$%@. But then they put Tony on the stand and he verifies Amy's story and the other friend - if this is important to the state. And I would think it would be just to show how much Cindy is willing to lie for her daughter.

This is the dumbest family I have met to date - considering that she is a registered nurse. Maybe she is sociopathic also. Because the lying is just ridiculous. What for. Its useless.

 

[Solace]

They didn't talk about it in a lot of detail, just went over what happened that day leading up to the 911 calls. I'm sure the interview was in a lot more detail, but Cindy did gloss over everything in the 911 hearing like it was a perfect day except for Caylee being missing, and that wasn't even a big deal either. Nice try, Cindy. LDB sooooooooo outplayed her that hearing. It was awesome!

I know and after I listened to the third 911 tape, she cannot get Caylee's name out - takes her three times when she sees George and tries to tell him she is missing. She says in her interview with the State at that point, Lee grabbed her and held her.

So why is this family doing this. They don't want to see Cindy fall apart again is the only thing I can think of - it probably was horrible that day watching Cindy fall apart and maybe Lee can't handle seeing it again and is backing whatever Cindy wants. Only thing I can think of. Because we know he does not believe it.

I know this is a little off topic, but we all know a movie will be made about this and if they don't cast Ellen Page, I will be surprised. Here she is.

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=ellen+page&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq"]ellen page - Google Search[/ame]=

 

[Solace]

Linda DB is excellent in her questioning of Cindy Anthony. I would not want to be on the stand with her questioning me. At all!

 

[Pondering Mind]

My memory says this was speculated on in here, not by LE. Amy's car was wrecked, and I believe the car was towed over to the parking lot of TonE's, but I don't remember why. Some thought ICA might have hidden Caylee's body in Amy's trunk for a while. I don't know why, as I was not one who thought this, but that's the way I remember this being a topic of discussion.

IIRC, when Cindy was being interviewed by YM ..(you know..when she was putting the pieces of the puzzle together ) she was saying that maybe Amy was really Zanny and the wreck that Amy had was really the accident that Zanny & Co had. Cindy was trying her best to get Yuri to put the *clues* together just the way she wanted them..

 

[Solace]

IIRC, when Cindy was being interviewed by YM ..(you know..when she was putting the pieces of the puzzle together ) she was saying that maybe Amy was really Zanny and the wreck that Amy had was really the accident that Zanny & Co had. Cindy was trying her best to get Yuri to put the *clues* together just the way she wanted them..

Yep. But she never seems to quite get there. Because if she did, she would know that HER daughter uses situations that actually happen and changes the name, eg. Amy had the accident and I believe her stepfather bought her a new car or a used car. KC changes it to Zanny.

Reading another site awhile back and someone had posted all the lies that KC had told (some I had not heard and then showed how she used her friends situations and changed them around- she has been doing it for years) and I do believe Cindy knows this.

You know Cindy, maybe Amy is really Amy and Tony is really Tony and Jesse is really Jesse and KC is really the murderer in this scenario.

But as I have said before, Cindy let this happen and if she admits her daughter did this, she has to admit she did not take care of the baby. And that is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yep. But she never seems to quite get there. Because if she did, she would know that HER daughter uses situations that actually happen and changes the name, eg. Amy had the accident and I believe her stepfather bought her a new car or a used car. KC changes it to Zanny.

Reading another site awhile back and someone had posted all the lies that KC had told (some I had not heard and then showed how she used her friends situations and changed them around- she has been doing it for years) and I do believe Cindy knows this.

You know Cindy, maybe Amy is really Amy and Tony is really Tony and Jesse is really Jesse and KC is really the murderer in this scenario.

But as I have said before, Cindy let this happen and if she admits her daughter did this, she has to admit she did not take care of the baby. And that is a tough pill to swallow.

Agree and think in the middle of the bold is the statement has to admit and finally accept her baby grand daughter is never ever coming home to her - ever.

Once she does that - admits and accepts - accepting ICA's guilt IMO will be an easy step for her to make. To me - right now her mind is saying, no, no, no, no.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have only been seeing and hearing hearsay evidence about Cindy's behavior, most of which is coming from ICA, who has her own view of what is going on. I do understand any mother who makes numerous attempts to get her daughter to "go straight", at her own expense. I believe mother's first blame themselves for their child's behavior, that "they" must have done something wrong in bringing them up, before they have their face at the wall, and need to make strong changes in an attempt to correct that behavior. Not all parents can handle "tough love".

I am not speaking about what CA has done or appears to have done since ICA was arrested, but her behavior from December 2007 to June 15, 2008 regarding her own money, and that of her parents, that ICA was "dipping" into whenever she felt like it.

I don't see bank statements as being hearsay.

I know why people enable. No matter the reason it's still enabling all the same. It's not in the interest of the child (who is no longer a child but a grown woman with a child of her own) it's in the interest of the parent, to relieve that guilt of feeling "they did something wrong in bringing them up".. to make up for whatever it is they feel they did wrong. That's exactly what drives the enabling. It's not about tough love it's about preparing your children for the real world.. it's about teaching them right from wrong.. it's about teaching them not to lie and steal and not to take advantage of others. Not all mothers feel it's their fault their children end up "bad", not all mothers feel they have to let their kids take advantage of them because they may have made some mistakes while raising them. Just because there is an explanation, a reason for the enabling doesn't mean it's not enabling. I get why Cindy enabled Casey.. my mother enabled me in the exact ways.. they think it's about love but it's about them trying to make up for the things they didn't do or didn't give or the times they weren't there.. it's about their guilt- it's about them. and it is not healthy.. it does not create a healthy person.

 

[OneLostGrl]

[/B]

Agree and think in the middle of the bold is the statement has to admit and finally accept her baby grand daughter is never ever coming home to her - ever.

Once she does that - admits and accepts - accepting ICA's guilt IMO will be an easy step for her to make. To me - right now her mind is saying, no, no, no, no.

I agree. I feel really bad for the day she finally sees it as real. I hope she gets help and soon!

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't see bank statements as being hearsay.

I know why people enable. No matter the reason it's still enabling all the same. It's not in the interest of the child (who is no longer a child but a grown woman with a child of her own) it's in the interest of the parent, to relieve that guilt of feeling "they did something wrong in bringing them up".. to make up for whatever it is they feel they did wrong. That's exactly what drives the enabling. It's not about tough love it's about preparing your children for the real world.. it's about teaching them right from wrong.. it's about teaching them not to lie and steal and not to take advantage of others. Not all mothers feel it's their fault their children end up "bad", not all mothers feel they have to let their kids take advantage of them because they may have made some mistakes while raising them. Just because there is an explanation, a reason for the enabling doesn't mean it's not enabling. I get why Cindy enabled Casey.. my mother enabled me in the exact ways.. they think it's about love but it's about them trying to make up for the things they didn't do or didn't give or the times they weren't there.. it's about their guilt- it's about them. and it is not healthy.. it does not create a healthy person.

The thing is the bank statements aren't evidence unless CA admits ICA was actually stealing from her or taking money from CA without her permission. Unless CA files a complaint with the OCSD, it isn't against the law. That was my point. We criticize CA's parenting skills and it looks like for good reason, but we haven't had a good look at the full picture to know if our reasoning is correct or just a very good guess without adequate information.

I am not condoning CA's handling of ICA, what I am saying is I don't know what ICA's behavior was to CA on a day to day basis and who was controlling who - is all.

I've spent a lot of time studying family dynamics and wow, the behaviors are wide and varied. I just think I haven't got enough information to make a judgement I am sure of. Oh and I just want to add, that doesn't mean I am criticizing you for your conclusions - not at all. It's all about me here! LOL.

 

[faefrost]

The thing is the bank statements aren't evidence unless CA admits ICA was actually stealing from her or taking money from CA without her permission. Unless CA files a complaint with the OCSD, it isn't against the law. That was my point. We criticize CA's parenting skills and it looks like for good reason, but we haven't had a good look at the full picture to know if our reasoning is correct or just a very good guess without adequate information.

I am not condoning CA's handling of ICA, what I am saying is I don't know what ICA's behavior was to CA on a day to day basis and who was controlling who - is all.

I've spent a lot of time studying family dynamics and wow, the behaviors are wide and varied. I just think I haven't got enough information to make a judgement I am sure of. Oh and I just want to add, that doesn't mean I am criticizing you for your conclusions - not at all. It's all about me here! LOL.

Well there are some direct witness reports regarding at least some of the dynamics going on between Cindy and KC. Uncle Rick and Grandma being the two main ones. Grandma was even one of the victims of theft and Rick pretty clearly laid out Cindy's behavior of denial and enabling regarding KC.

One thing we have to be very very conscious of when looking at the relationship between CA and KC. In the end CA did not murder Caylee. At least up until KC was arrested CA did at least enough of the right things where she is on the correct side of the angels. She confronted KC about the theft from Grandpa. She worried about Caylee. She searched for Caylee. She was the one that called 911 when she found KC and not Caylee. Cindy may be a dysfunctional enabler when it comes to her daughter. She may very well be the most annoying person on the planet. And everything that she has said and done since KC's initial arrest is well past the boundries of crazy. But she is NOT the monster here. She did not kill and duct tape a 2 year old child, drive around with her decomposing body for a week then toss her off the side of the road into a swamp like trash. We need to be very very careful to not allow ourselves to start seeing Cindy's character flaws as a justification or excuse for these truly monstrous acts. That is what KC wants. That is how KC lives her life and manipulates those around her. It's never her fault. There is always some other underlying reason. It's what the true monster wants us to believe. It's what the true monsters shady defense team wants us to believe, and it is the line that they are going to try and sell the jury come sentencing phase.

edit: Oh and regarding the bank statements. Oh yeah are they evidence. They are pieces of the whole and do not have to stand alone as crimes unto themselves or have charges filed by the victim. They show the pattern of behavior more clearly then any spoken words.

 

[beach]

Thank you for the reality check, faefrost. AMEN!

 

[LolaMoon08]

[/B]

Agree and think in the middle of the bold is the statement has to admit and finally accept her baby grand daughter is never ever coming home to her - ever.

Once she does that - admits and accepts - accepting ICA's guilt IMO will be an easy step for her to make. To me - right now her mind is saying, no, no, no, no.

See, I think Cindy has admitted to herself and accepted the fact that Casey has murdered Caylee... she will never admit to it publicly, but I believe that Cindy has forgiven Casey for murdering Caylee. I think that Cindy believes, that since she forgives Casey, that it should be up to her on how Casey is dealt with.

What Cindy can not admit to and accept is that she has NO SAY in how Casey is to be punished. This is what drives Cindy to lie. If Cindy had her way, Casey would be home and Cindy would deal with Casey like she always has. Cindy, in her mind, doesn't think that anyone should have a say in punishing Casey. She doesn't think that it is any of anyones business. Cindy believes that she is the "victim" in all this. The grandmother who lost her precious granddaughter and the mother of the daughter who murdered her precious granddaughter. Why should anyone, but the "victim" herself have the final say?

That is just how I see it.

 

[logicalgirl]

Well there are some direct witness reports regarding at least some of the dynamics going on between Cindy and KC. Uncle Rick and Grandma being the two main ones. Grandma was even one of the victims of theft and Rick pretty clearly laid out Cindy's behavior of denial and enabling regarding KC.

One thing we have to be very very conscious of when looking at the relationship between CA and KC. In the end CA did not murder Caylee. At least up until KC was arrested CA did at least enough of the right things where she is on the correct side of the angels. She confronted KC about the theft from Grandpa. She worried about Caylee. She searched for Caylee. She was the one that called 911 when she found KC and not Caylee. Cindy may be a dysfunctional enabler when it comes to her daughter. She may very well be the most annoying person on the planet. And everything that she has said and done since KC's initial arrest is well past the boundries of crazy. But she is NOT the monster here. She did not kill and duct tape a 2 year old child, drive around with her decomposing body for a week then toss her off the side of the road into a swamp like trash. We need to be very very careful to not allow ourselves to start seeing Cindy's character flaws as a justification or excuse for these truly monstrous acts. That is what KC wants. That is how KC lives her life and manipulates those around her. It's never her fault. There is always some other underlying reason. It's what the true monster wants us to believe. It's what the true monsters shady defense team wants us to believe, and it is the line that they are going to try and sell the jury come sentencing phase.

edit: Oh and regarding the bank statements. Oh yeah are they evidence. They are pieces of the whole and do not have to stand alone as crimes unto themselves or have charges filed by the victim. They show the pattern of behavior more clearly then any spoken words.

I like the way you expanded thoughts on the justification of CA's character flaws vs monstrous acts.

But then you have gone a little sideways on me. I thought I was pretty clear to say "I" have not seen enough of the family dynamics to be able to come to conclusion "for myself" about who was on control and who was being controlled in that family. Yes, I agree, Shirley was definitely victimized and Rick has commented about it, and yes, they are part of the family dynamics and whether they like it or not they come with their own agenda. I am not questioning the facts in the bank statements or that ICA was stealing her mother blind. What I question is the blanket assumption that CA has enabled ICA her whole life and is responsible for who ICA is today.

I was simply saying I was not comfortable with that blanket assumption with out more information from an independent source or sources. Yes, the bank statements are clear evidence of the theft, but are they clear evidence of enabling? "I" would like more information. That's just me and the way I process.

 

[Ssejors]

Well there are some direct witness reports regarding at least some of the dynamics going on between Cindy and KC. Uncle Rick and Grandma being the two main ones. Grandma was even one of the victims of theft and Rick pretty clearly laid out Cindy's behavior of denial and enabling regarding KC.

One thing we have to be very very conscious of when looking at the relationship between CA and KC. In the end CA did not murder Caylee. At least up until KC was arrested CA did at least enough of the right things where she is on the correct side of the angels. She confronted KC about the theft from Grandpa. She worried about Caylee. She searched for Caylee. She was the one that called 911 when she found KC and not Caylee. Cindy may be a dysfunctional enabler when it comes to her daughter. She may very well be the most annoying person on the planet. And everything that she has said and done since KC's initial arrest is well past the boundries of crazy. But she is NOT the monster here. She did not kill and duct tape a 2 year old child, drive around with her decomposing body for a week then toss her off the side of the road into a swamp like trash. We need to be very very careful to not allow ourselves to start seeing Cindy's character flaws as a justification or excuse for these truly monstrous acts. That is what KC wants. That is how KC lives her life and manipulates those around her. It's never her fault. There is always some other underlying reason. It's what the true monster wants us to believe. It's what the true monsters shady defense team wants us to believe, and it is the line that they are going to try and sell the jury come sentencing phase.

edit: Oh and regarding the bank statements. Oh yeah are they evidence. They are pieces of the whole and do not have to stand alone as crimes unto themselves or have charges filed by the victim. They show the pattern of behavior more clearly then any spoken words.

once again, another wonderful post by Faefrost!

BBM ITA I have some experience with a child who shares this behavior. He is 13 at the moment and we are in the middle of deciding what we should do as he is pushing the boundaries of our family unit. We are hoping to enroll him in a psychiatric youth group home. In his own way, he himself even thinks that his OWN behavior is out of his control. He feels that such and such happened and therefor he HAS to behave a certain way. It's hard to explain, but it's as though he feels that EVERYTHING that happens to him is because someone ELSE made him MAKE that choice. He can not and will not accept personal responsibility for his own actions and behaviors. It's ALWAYS someone elses fault. And what fantastic BS stories he will weave to make you believe what he wants you to believe.

You could said, The sky is blue and he will argue vehemently that NO it's NOT blue, it's green and it's only cause your eyes are brown and you need glasses that you THINK the sky is blue. The logic and reasoning just go out the window, all so that he wont be WRONG, or in trouble, or at fault or held responsible. he will just do and say anything to NOT take responsibility, i guess that's what i am trying to say.

It's very very scary to interact with this boy on a daily basis, because his world is so bizarre and unrealistic and the things he will say to make you believe his version of the truth is so UNBELIEVABLE.

that being said, I see the same thing in ICA. The "I KNOW the truth, I dont care what you THINK is the truth, regardless of your so called EVIDENCE. Because it's not TRUE. And I will NEVER waver on it" way of thinking. It's got MAJOR PERSONALITY DISORDER written all over it! Totally and completely out of touch with reality. And when I say out of touch with reality, i mean, they cant SEE that no one believes them, that EVERYTHING they are saying sounds so absurd, that ALL EVIDENCE DISPROVES what they are saying. They can't see the people around them, stunned and confused. They just carry on spewing lies, making up excuses and trying to make up and pass off this Reality that THEY believe, not realizing that NO ONE else Believe them. And if ICA is ANYTHING like my 13 y/o step son, then the truth will never be utter by ICA.