2008.09.18 Tracy M Interview Audio #1

[cyberborg]

:clap::clap::clap::clap: I don't think that Casey gets a pass because she plays innocent junior high girl. There is much evidence that she thought adult thoughts and had adult emotions when out of her home but at home with her parents and brother, she gets what she wants by being the little kid.

Anything to get her way and back her parents off, either cutesy princess or tough cookie CEO. Don't make her angry......

 

[Curious Me]

Getting Tracy to dress like her, the sunglass game, all this while her daughter is still missing is shocking evidence that she loved her games, but not her daughter.

Narcissists love to get people to play their games with them, it's the supply they seek, and they really will discard you in a minute if you've become useless. Indifference is the best way to avoid a Narcissist. Tracy knew she had to act like she thought Casey was kinda cool. Tracy played Casey in the end. Alright Tracy!

Casey sure discarded LP when he wouldn't play her game. Tracy played her dual role very good, I think. The information she supplies is certainly relevant to the case.

31 days, parties, tattoo, eye witnesses to no concern daughter gone...... Casey is toast.

 

[magic-cat]

Thanks for answering. I just didn't see the rude stuff, I guess....I always miss it when someone comes to post.
I don't hold out much hope of getting any really valuable information from him but who knows maybe he will really come through.

It just dawned on me that maybe it was some of my posts that were considered rude and attacking the poster and not the posts. I am too blunt sometimes so maybe I came across as rude and attacking.

I always try really to attack the post and not the poster but when his posts are about himself and his opinion/belief/whatever attacking the posts and the poster look a lot alike or maybe I am just not very tactful? Don't answer that!

You are so funny!:blowkiss: I love it!

Rare as this is, I agree with you! Casey was a lousy criminal- horrible .. and she is no mastermind!

A mastermind wouldn't mess up and sign their own name when using a stolen check... they certainly wouldn't try to cash their gramma's FAKE check at the store down the street from their home! A "good" criminal wouldn't write a bunch of different checks on a bunch of different days at a bunch of different stores AND at the bank (withdrawl the damn money, idiot, and stop putting youself in front of camera's writing these bad checks! DUhh) A mastermind would not have brought police to a fake nanny's fake apartment complex and say they can't recall which apartment it is because "I have been here so many times"!

I could go on and on but I'll stop.. my point is, Casey was not good at ANYTHING .. lying, stealing, faking job credentials, etc. Planning is just not something Casey does and to be a "good" criminal, a mastermind, you must think things through and plan ahead. Girl just ain't bright enough for any of it, obviously, the only reason he behavior continued as long as it did without her getting arrested is because her mother is a co-dependant enabler who covered for her daughters criminal and immoral behaviors!

Amen.

Magic-cat, this really touched me. I'm sorry you went through that. I appreciate that, honestly. Healing from such as a sociopath or any parent with a mental/personality "issue" is a mountain worth climbing. I would and do highly recommend it when all else fails...go your own way and don't look back...ever.

Ten years ago I was in a Bible study with a group of women. We were an interdenominational group. One lady made a statement that taught me what you explaned above (but your story I will remember). I don't recall what she said but I'll never forget her message. I exclaimed in that lightbulb moment "Oh my I never thought of it like that before!" We tend to think in black and white versus indifferences.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience to make a VERY good point. :blowkiss:

You are most welcome. I am sort of an expert in this field so I know firsthand that people do this everyday all day long and do not give it a thought...not I-I am looking for more in a person than that they be nice to me. One of the most horrible people that I ever had the misfortune to know, he was always super nice to me, even when he would take hostages, he would always let ME go...lol, but seriously, that was no lie. He would torture his step-kids and his wife and commit awful crimes, and abuse drugs to the hilt and stayed in jail continually but he was always real nice to me...what kind of person would I be if I said that when I know all of those things of a certainty? People who are "good" to certain people like that and yet lash out with their venom to others who are their VICTIMS are NOT good people. They are getting some good feeling from the one they are treating well...have mercy on you if the feeling that you give them is NOT good. They have no mercy-NONE...This man is one of my older brothers and he is NOT a good person. He is a scary person, who was a PERFECT gentleman to ME because I somehow made HIM feel good inside, and so he never tortured ME, but what I saw him do to one of my other brothers and later in life to his families? Unspeakable! But hey, he was super nice to me...

Just for the record I have not seen nor spoken to him in seven years...and he does NOT know where I live!

Oh....sorry about that....I agree that if they put themselves out there by being here and offering up information and even offering to answer questions then they have to be able to take the heat. Seems that I remember reading a couple of things that he said that were more of attack the poster and not the post things so he might need to get the same instruction that everyone else does. Anyway it was a good rant and it felt good to spit it out.

You are cracking me up! You have got an amazing way with words-simply amazing!:blowkiss:

Getting Tracy to dress like her, the sunglass game, all this while her daughter is still missing is shocking evidence that she loved her games, but not her daughter.

Narcissists love to get people to play their games with them, it's the supply they seek, and they really will discard you in a minute if you've become useless. Indifference is the best way to avoid a Narcissist. Tracy knew she had to act like she thought Casey was kinda cool. Tracy played Casey in the end. Alright Tracy!

Casey sure discarded LP when he wouldn't play her game. Tracy played her dual role very good, I think. The information she supplies is certainly relevant to the case.

31 days, parties, tattoo, eye witnesses to no concern daughter gone...... Casey is toast.

I SO hope you are right!

 

[shadowraiths]

The rather obvious “childlike” behaviors that Casey displayed with Tracy could have been, at least in part, role playing designed to mitigate a death penalty and to increase the likelihood of a hung jury.

While certainly possible, Knot4u2no, as I noted earlier, it was while reviewing these crime scene photos, which were released well before the interviews were released, that I had the distinct feeling that KC may be developmentally challenged. Interestingly (or perhaps not so), I was recently browsing some earlier vids of this case and I stumbled upon this video of KC's bond hearing with Judge Strickland, in which he states:

"her mental condition, which I cannot begin to describe, and I'm gonna order a psychological evaluation. Of course, charges haven't been filed. I think I can order a psychological eval. Does anyone want to be heard on that? [cross-talk] going to order a psychological evaluation by Dr. Jefferey Danzinger and Dr. Alan Berns to determine competency... whether or not they can shed any light on her thoughts.​

As far as her mental state wrt the death penalty? Unless her IQ indicates that she is severely mentally retarded, I do not see the "childlike" bit being considered a mitigating factor. Remember, Couey tested at 70 and was still sentenced to death. And I highly doubt KC's IQ is even as low as, or falls below 70. And besides, the federal guidelines are 50.

Now, the hung jury bit? That might be possible. Though I would expect them to see the narcissistic features that are part and parcel of young development stages, as just plain old pathological narcissism. I really do not see them having any sympathy for KC. Esp if the prosecution does as I would expect them to do... which would basically involve showing pictures of a beautiful alive little girl and then proceeding to put forth a viable murder scenario involving chloroform and duct tape, and the following cover-up that left that baby in the marsh to be picked apart by wildlife, while KC partied and dirty danced the night away at the local clubs. Nope. Just don't see that happening.

That being said, my interest in KC's childlike demeanor is this. If she is indeed developmentally challenged in this way, are there any lessons that can be learned? Lessons that could, at the very least, deter such tragedies in the future?

 

[shadowraiths]

The "little girl" act of Casey's is just that, it is her role in the family.

Yes, and herein lies the key. Imo, family dynamics involves unspoken yet agreed upon roles. In this case, KC plays the "little girl" and while Caylee was alive, "played mom." Remember the recently released doc about Cindy sending DC to the remains site? If you scroll down to page 18 of that document where they are quoting one of KC's friends, Annie, she notes among other things:

Casey pulled Annie aside and told her "Oh my God, this is supposed to be Caylee's day. I'm her mom. She's not her mom." Casey was getting mad saying "this is my daughter" and claimed her mother was trying "trying to play mom instead of letting Casey play mom... or be mom."​

Imo, this is why it was easy for KC to murder Caylee. Bc KC was "playing mom" as opposed to actually being a mother. As for Cindy? I think she was "playing mom" too. Esp considering that she allegedly told KC:

Even though Caylee is the best mistake you ever made, she was still a mistake."​

Imnsho, Caylee was nothing more than a weapon these two women used against each other.

 

[Curious Me]

Part of the narcissist many persona is a child-behavior demeanor at times. And they are full of jealousies. Please do not ask me to forget Caylee is dead because Casey wanted more self-gratification in her life. So what, it is not because she has a low IQ, or that she could not work her game on everybody. So much self-involvement, she dared to kill. That girl is capable of murdering her little girl, and showing no remorse. But she is not mentally excused from facing justice. She's going to go down.

 

[OneLostGrl]

While certainly possible, Knot4u2no, as I noted earlier, it was while reviewing these crime scene photos, which were released well before the interviews were released, that I had the distinct feeling that KC may be developmentally challenged. Interestingly (or perhaps not so), I was recently browsing some earlier vids of this case and I stumbled upon this video of KC's bond hearing with Judge Strickland, in which he states:

"her mental condition, which I cannot begin to describe, and I'm gonna order a psychological evaluation. Of course, charges haven't been filed. I think I can order a psychological eval. Does anyone want to be heard on that? [cross-talk] going to order a psychological evaluation by Dr. Jefferey Danzinger and Dr. Alan Berns to determine competency... whether or not they can shed any light on her thoughts.​

As far as her mental state wrt the death penalty? Unless her IQ indicates that she is severely mentally retarded, I do not see the "childlike" bit being considered a mitigating factor. Remember, Couey tested at 70 and was still sentenced to death. And I highly doubt KC's IQ is even as low as, or falls below 70. And besides, the federal guidelines are 50.

Now, the hung jury bit? That might be possible. Though I would expect them to see the narcissistic features that are part and parcel of young development stages, as just plain old pathological narcissism. I really do not see them having any sympathy for KC. Esp if the prosecution does as I would expect them to do... which would basically involve showing pictures of a beautiful alive little girl and then proceeding to put forth a viable murder scenario involving chloroform and duct tape, and the following cover-up that left that baby in the marsh to be picked apart by wildlife, while KC partied and dirty danced the night away at the local clubs. Nope. Just don't see that happening.

That being said, my interest in KC's childlike demeanor is this. If she is indeed developmentally challenged in this way, are there any lessons that can be learned? Lessons that could, at the very least, deter such tragedies in the future?

Bold is mine-

Absolutely! Lee seems kinda "challenged" in some of the same ways Casey is..

 

[Curious Me]

Tracy pretty much implies Casey is so self-absorbed she doesn't even realize people can't stand to be around her for long cause she has to obnoxiously talk about herself and her silly thoughts all the time. Tracy sounded like she had a hard time coping with Casey's babbling on and on, but never about Caylee. I want to remember we're investigating this case to find out who killed a little girl. I have no patience now for why Casey choose to apparently kill Caylee and try to get away with it. After all, didn't she write in her diary that she has complete confidence in her decisions. Put her away, please, she's dangerous to all mankind, especially young children.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I keep meaning to say this (and some may remember as well) - some folks over at the Dreaming Demons site ordered the pizza to be delivered that day. It was a joke and something crazy (escapes me now) was written on the delivery box - or was supposed to be. It was in reference to Cindy trying to link the the smell of death to left over pizza in the car.

Oh, no! Rather vindictive, I would say. Sounds like something mean teenagers would do. Too bad they forgot this was about a BABY!!.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

ITA Cindy NEEDS to have KC proven innocent-not because she believes it or because she loves her daughter. Cindy NEEDS to have KC proven innocent or at least not guilty (by a reasonable dout) because Cindy NEEDS absolution for herself!! It's not about Caylee and it's not about KC-it's about Cindy!!

I said something very similar yesterday when discussing the tape between Cindy and Irwin, the high level OSCO guy.

From the beginning, it was obvious that Cindy's pride was showing. My daughter wouldn't do such a thing because I'm her mother, that sort of thing. So she went into 'save Casey at all costs' mode because a conviction will reflect back on Cindy. Poor little Caylee, always at the end of the line.

I do believe this same pride was at the heart of Cindy not wanting to give Caylee up for adoption, and KC's animosity toward her mother was the reason she wouldn't let Cindy have legal custody of Caylee. She was their pawn. It's an extremely complicated family dynamic.

I don't think Tracy understood this at the time of her interview/statement. I do believe she was still in a state of shock how unconcerned KC and the family were about what really happened to Caylee. She probably went into that house expecting someone, anyone, to be desperate to find the little girl. She truly seemed shocked that no one was out searching, and that 'some family members' said 'they' were searching for Caylee on the computer! Tracy probably expected them to be out pounding on doors of people they suspected - but no one did that.

A thought about LP and Tracy keeping in touch with Baez and KC: perhaps, like Ron Cummings, they are keeping their enemies very close? We've all seen spy thrillers where the enemy spy or double agent cozies up to his enemy to get more information. Could this be with them? Although when they first showed up in Orlahndo, I couldn't imagine how such a tough, experienced bounty hunter had fallen for KC's lies and believed the child was still alive. What concerned mother drags police around town on a wild, phony chase when her daughter's life is at stake? And what mother would keep her mouth shut for so long, showing no sign of stress, after her daughter was kidnapped? But this bounty hunter believed the child was still breathing?

 

[strach304]

This info further blows the excuse of protecting Caylee and the family from harm out of the water. Cindy indicated this in media interviews as well as Casey herself leading in that direction. Obviously, if she is wanting so many others checked out then how was anyone being threatened and by who?

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I'm sorry to ask such a dumb question, but, when these tapes were released to the public, would that have been the first time that the A clan heard them for themselves? Or would GA, CA, LA & KC have heard these tapes back a year ago when they were interviewed? I'm just wondering how KC responded to TM's interview. She probably sees it as TM being a tattle-tale. I also wonder what KioM is thinking now.

 

[Chiquita71]

Yes, and herein lies the key. Imo, family dynamics involves unspoken yet agreed upon roles. In this case, KC plays the "little girl" and while Caylee was alive, "played mom." Remember the recently released doc about Cindy sending DC to the remains site? If you scroll down to page 18 of that document where they are quoting one of KC's friends, Annie, she notes among other things:

Casey pulled Annie aside and told her "Oh my God, this is supposed to be Caylee's day. I'm her mom. She's not her mom." Casey was getting mad saying "this is my daughter" and claimed her mother was trying "trying to play mom instead of letting Casey play mom... or be mom."​

Imo, this is why it was easy for KC to murder Caylee. Bc KC was "playing mom" as opposed to actually being a mother. As for Cindy? I think she was "playing mom" too. Esp considering that she allegedly told KC:

Even though Caylee is the best mistake you ever made, she was still a mistake."​

Imnsho, Caylee was nothing more than a weapon these two women used against each other.

Quote Respect shadowraiths

:clap::clap::clap::clap: I did this because I couldn't hit the "thank you" as many times as I would have liked for this post. "Playing mom": both Cindy and Casey. Yes.

...jmo...

 

[seagull65]

Rare as this is, I agree with you! Casey was a lousy criminal- horrible .. and she is no mastermind!

A mastermind wouldn't mess up and sign their own name when using a stolen check... they certainly wouldn't try to cash their gramma's FAKE check at the store down the street from their home! A "good" criminal wouldn't write a bunch of different checks on a bunch of different days at a bunch of different stores AND at the bank (withdrawl the damn money, idiot, and stop putting youself in front of camera's writing these bad checks! DUhh) A mastermind would not have brought police to a fake nanny's fake apartment complex and say they can't recall which apartment it is because "I have been here so many times"!

I could go on and on but I'll stop.. my point is, Casey was not good at ANYTHING .. lying, stealing, faking job credentials, etc. Planning is just not something Casey does and to be a "good" criminal, a mastermind, you must think things through and plan ahead. Girl just ain't bright enough for any of it, obviously, the only reason he behavior continued as long as it did without her getting arrested is because her mother is a co-dependant enabler who covered for her daughters criminal and immoral behaviors!

That's a strong allegation that you make regarding Cindy covering for crimes committed by Casey. Do you have any substantiation for that?

I wonder about Casey's intelligence...you say she's dumb, and her friend Annie said she would definitely not be the mastermind behind any kind of criminal plan because she's not that bright. On the other hand, one of her friends on here (Exit 13) described the Casey they'd always known as "smart". He and other friends (Annie included) expressed the concern that the behavior they'd seen from her in that first prison phone call and everything that's come out since July 15, was nothing like her at all, like she was a completely different person. They were very concerned wondering what could have happened to her in those few weeks before the arrest to have changed her so radically, not to mention resulted in Caylee being missing.

The bizarre tour she took police on July 15 or 16 seemed very confused to me. Taking the police all the way out to her old office where she'd just have to say, once they got there, that she didn't work there anymore. Taking them over to RM/JPC/AH's apartment but pointing to the building across the street instead (an old folks' home), saying the babysitter lived in a 2nd floor apartment in that building with her mother, and the babysitter's roommate lived in a 3rd floor apartment, etc. None of it made any sense, it was crazy, and it wasn't designed to make herself look good, that's for sure.

On the one hand, she's shown enough intelligence, and friends say she was smart enough, that I think if she were the murderer, she would have called police much earlier on and simply said a stranger had grabbed Caylee away from her in a store or something. Or left town for that matter and just told her parents she and Caylee were moving somewhere to be a family with some fictitious boyfriend. And if she were the murderer, I can't see her leaving the tape on Caylee's face, (she'd remove it to make the death appear more innocent, I also don't think she'd dump Caylee in a kind of disheveled state, I think she'd neaten her up), or dumping Caylee down the street from her own home rather than somewhere closer to Sawgrass or J Blanchard or elsewhere, or leaving lots of items with Caylee that matched ones in her home and not removing the matching ones from the home, etc. (Of course the friends and family say she would never harm Caylee, period.)

But because of that bizarre trip she took police around on that day that seemed so dreamlike and didn't make any sense, and certainly wasn't calculated to help her own case, I can't rule out her being mentally ill or otherwise impaired enough that she could potentially have lost Caylee or even harmed Caylee and not remembered it, (or that she could have been taken advantage of by someone who did harm Caylee.) Like her friends (old friends and family), I'd like to know, what happened to her to change her so much, what is her actual mental and physical state (or was)?

Tracey's account of how she was acting during the week she was there also sounds like she was not acting normal. If she were a normal person who didn't know where her child was, she would have been frantic with worry, that worry might be expressed in many different ways, but she'd be worried and distressed. Unless maybe she was medicated or was impaired in some way. If she were the murderer, with any awareness of what was going on at all, she would have pretended to be worried and concerned. She wouldn't have acted playful and like she didn't care about Caylee.

My guess is she has normal intelligence but that she may have (or may have had) some other impairment going on. Unless she was acting that weird and unconcerned about Caylee because at the time, she thought a friend of hers had Caylee and Caylee wasn't going to be harmed. I'm not sure yet if she's the murderer or not. Anyway, I'd be interested in a brain scan and other medical tests due to the behavioral/personality change, and even just because of the history of the seizure, etc. MOO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Some one brought up the Parking Lot last night to Tony so we don't fill the Tracy M thread with OT conversation. I started a thread down there last night for Tony questions and the mods haven't deleted it. SO maybe questions for TOny should be put down there.

That way if he wishes to publicize that he's going on the Today Show or possibly going to write a book there will be a smaller audience. :waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

When you are dealing with people who lie without thinking about the innocent people they are making up stories about the last thing you want to do is tick them off. TP is on this forum using his own name so I would think picking and chosing what he has to say about the A's would be anything he found positive not negative about them. Most of us can voice our opinion and not have to worry about being identified. Not so with TP. Look at CA pointing her finger at JG. The fear comes from dealing with people who lie. You never know who their next victum will be.

Also the fact that TP comes here looking for information, or the latest hot news, WS's should feel complimented that he respects this site enough to come here and post. We here on this forum do not have all the answers and TP obviously does not have all the answers either. JMO

:waitasec: TP had negative things to say about RG - not on this thread but not too long ago. He sounded venomous. Of course, HE DIDN'T TELL US WHY. You think he's worried about being CA's victim? Wow. :waitasec:

 

[seagull65]

Watch me in real life. I am articulate, mature and under control.
Take me to a funeral. I laugh, I giggle, I snort. It is MORTIFYING. I have been in counselling for years. I have no idea why I do it. I've been told it is a sub-conscious defense mechanism. For what, I have no idea.

People can't always control the *giggles*. And for many of us, it is very embarassing. Believe me, I know that I look like an idiot. I know that it is inappropriate. But that doesn't make me "immature" or "annoying".

Not all social norms are laws.

I know someone who has the same thing, kindest person you could ever meet. Some people do laugh at funerals, sometimes they can't even attend them for this reason. The more upset they are, the more they might start to laugh, definitely the crying impulse coming out in the form of nervous laughter like you say. It happened to me once when I was a child (my grandmother's funeral, and she was very dear to me.) So I understand!

I think Tracy was a bit nervous, also I thought the informal tone and joking around that was going on before and after the actual interview among the detectives and Tracy was just carrying over into the interview. (You can hear how they were joking with her in that second audio). If she's called to testify or for any further interviews I recommend she just be careful not to drink any caffeine, and not to let the joking tone of anything outside of the interview carry over into her statements, during the interview just to be calm, take her time, and answer clearly and in shorter sentences. But I don't blame her for being nervous, I would have been, too. And she was great. I appreciated her answers a lot, I thought they were interesting and insightful. I also thought the questions were good.

I feel for Tracy, as someone posted here, Tracy's a mom, I could imagine her feelings regarding this case. Such a tragic case.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

ThinkTank, I found this to answer the part I put in bold.

"As for Tracy I don't think it's anybody's business but she is not at all law enfrocement."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.08.21 Motions hearing #2

Well why is she willing to immerse herself into a BIG NATIONAL CASE then? People always want it both ways; think before you leap. (not directing my comment at the poster - her comment evoked my response)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone
Refresh my memory please - you were the ? (guy with the dough) ? and LP and friends were the ?. How does/do the relationships work/fit together. If you were just acting as the Banker, who give a carp? Too easy?

Tony Padilla:
I thought you didn't believe it was me?

I am the Bail Agent. I was the one who put up the bond (not money) for Casey's release. Leonard is a bounty hunter and by far the best bounty hunter on the planet. No joking here! He is good. He put up the $50,000 premium for the bond. Rob is also a former police officer and bounty hunter and is also very good. He and Leonard have worked together for years. As for Tracy I don't think it's anybody's business but she is not at all law enfrocement. She will be out there later than sooner.

Do we know why a "non law enforcement trained" woman was chosen to be in the house with KC?

Are you making fun of me ThinkTank? At least he answered my question; may be the only question he answered.

 

[seagull65]

And as I just said on another thread,how stupid to borrow a shovel from a neighbor after you murdered your child!

But if she had murdered someone, would she go ask a neighbor for a shovel? Is she that stupid? Isn't that the last thing any person would do? I mean, we've all read her emails and texts, we've heard what her old friends said about her being reasonably smart. She doesn't appear to be subnormal in intelligence. She seems like a reasonably bright 22 year old. If she really needed a shovel for burying or moving a dead body, and didn't want to get one from her dad's shed or Target, wouldn't she find some way to borrow or steal one somewhere without announcing to her neighbor, I need a shovel?