Meara
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HI Everyone,
With Tricia's permission, the thread below is copied from "Lawyering JonBenet," on FFJ. It has intriguing information relevant to recent discussions here about the missing phone records and the Rams' lawyering up. Posting it here provides a way for interested members to connect and discuss in one place. The original FFJ thread was posted by a member named Spade, aka Tal Jones, who was/is a friend of Fleet White and is also credited with obtaining and posting online the Bonita Papers and transcripts of JR and PR's Atlanta interviews in 2000.
Since the original thread is too long for one post, it's copied in sequential batches. If you see random numbers here and there or other weird stuff, they're just embedded formatting artifacts. Smile and wave!
Lawyering JonBenet
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RiverRat, Sep 5, 2006
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With Tricia's permission, the thread below is copied from "Lawyering JonBenet," on FFJ. It has intriguing information relevant to recent discussions here about the missing phone records and the Rams' lawyering up. Posting it here provides a way for interested members to connect and discuss in one place. The original FFJ thread was posted by a member named Spade, aka Tal Jones, who was/is a friend of Fleet White and is also credited with obtaining and posting online the Bonita Papers and transcripts of JR and PR's Atlanta interviews in 2000.
Since the original thread is too long for one post, it's copied in sequential batches. If you see random numbers here and there or other weird stuff, they're just embedded formatting artifacts. Smile and wave!
Lawyering JonBenet
Page 1
SpadeMember
Last edited: Sep 6, 2006One of the unusual features of this case and IMO the key to understanding what happened that night, is to analyze how the case has been lawyered. Starting the night of December 26, 1996 at 5PM, with Mike Bynum summoning Fleet to his office and ending last week with Mary Lacy's pathetic news conference; the behavior of lawyers has been consistently bizarre. As you read this list, please keep in mind that once a prosecutor starts to lie, there is no turning back.
1. Mike Bynum told Fleet White that Haddon and Morgan were handling things and that he should stay out of it. (As Fleet told me, that is when "the intimidation began."
2. Hofstrom and DeMuth spent the early days of the case taking phone calls in Bynum's office (per ST's book).
3. Haddon had his PI's on the street early AM 12/27/96, often beating the BPD to witnesses.
4. Haddon used his personal political chits to delay Gov. Roemer's decision on the GJ/remove Hunter.
5. Jenkins (Burke's lawyer) went to court to demand a copy of the 911 call. This was a condition of Burke's GJ appearance. Jenkins received his copy.
6. Hunter found Krebs credible and goes public with his support.
7. Hunter writes Wood a carefully parsed excuse for Burke for Wood's use in a shakedown of American Media.
8. Hunter asks Tracey to "look into Fleet White's California connections".
9. Hunter shares half-truths with Jeff Shapiro.
10. Bellipanni abruptly resigns as presiding GJ judge and is replaced by Roxanne Bailin. This despite Foxy Roxy's long-term personal friendship and book co-authorship with Patrick Burke, Patsy's attorney.
11. Mary Keenan/Lacy tries to throw: Santa Claus, Churchmouse, Helgoth, Gigax, and Karr under the bus.
This list is endless but before we add to it, I would like to discuss #1 and #4:
#1
RiverRatFFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef
RiverRat, Sep 5, 20061. Mike Bynum told Fleet White that Haddon and Morgan were handling things and that he should stay out of it. (As Fleet told me, that is when “the intimidation beganâ€.)
This occurred within what? 24 hours of the murder?
#2
zoomamaActive Member
zoomama, Sep 5, 2006Spade,
with all that lawyer power and so quickly gotten could it also mean that there was not only a CYA going on but also covering up someone else besides family members. I 've not completely relinquished any idea of someone else being in the house...but I have no idea who it might be. Also could it be that the Ramseys didn't want to take the blame all by themselves, hence all the lawyers.
#3
MlazyVBanned for Stupidity
MlazyV, Sep 5, 2006A law degree is little more than a license to lie and cheat and in some instances do it with the court’s blessings.
#4
heymomMember
heymom, Sep 5, 2006Spade said:
I know this is #12 or whatever, but I just got to the point in PMPT, just before the GJ is convened, where Fleet White wants a copy of his previous interview and is continually denied access to it...yet the Ramseys had every bit of evidence including the ransom note given to them. I guess he is under more of the umbrella than the Rams are.One of the unusual features of this case and IMO the key to understanding what happened that night, is to analyze how the case has been lawyered. Starting the night of December 26, 1996 at 5PM, with Mike Bynum summoning Fleet to his office and ending last week with Mary Lacy’s pathetic news conference; the behavior of lawyers has been consistently bizarre. As you read this list, please keep in mind that once a prosecutor starts to lie, there is no turning back.
1. Mike Bynum told Fleet White that Haddon and Morgan were handling things and that he should stay out of it. (As Fleet told me, that is when “the intimidation beganâ€.)
2. Hofstrom and DeMuth spent the early days of the case taking phone calls in Bynum’s office (per ST’s book).
3. Haddon had his PI’s on the street early AM 12/27/96, often beating the BPD to witnesses.
4. Haddon used his personal political chits to delay Gov. Roemer’s decision on the GJ/remove Hunter.
5. Jenkins (Burke’s lawyer) went to court to demand a copy of the 911 call. This was a condition of Burke’s GJ appearance. Jenkins received his copy.
6. Hunter found Krebs credible and goes public with his support.
7. Hunter writes Wood a carefully parsed excuse for Burke for Wood’s use in a shakedown of American Media.
8. Hunter asks Tracey to “look into Fleet White’s California connectionsâ€.
9. Hunter shares half-truths with Jeff Shapiro.
10. Balipini abruptly resigns as presiding GJ judge and is replaced by Roxanne Bailin. This despite Foxy roxy's long-term personal friendship and book co-authorship with Pat Furman, Patsy’s attorney.
11. Mary Keenan/Lacytries to throw: Santa Claus, Churchmouse, Helgoth, Gigax, and Karr under the bus.
This list is endless but before we add to it, I would like to discuss #1 and #4:
Click to expand...
And I didn't realize that the Ramsey's PIs were out the very next day. I'm surprised anyone talked to the PD at all.
Heymom
#5
Spade
Spade, Sep 5, 2006River Rat
Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."
This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".
#6
1000 SparksActive Member
1000 Sparks, Sep 5, 2006Just what was Bynum "handling"?
Protecting the Rams from the killer?
Don't think that is the job of an attorney, but the PD.
and why were they so insistant on White "keeping out of it".
Bribes?
#7
Watching YouSuperior Bee Admin
Watching You, Sep 5, 2006This gives me the impression that Fleet White may have been a stand up guy who wasn't afraid to speak up, and he told it like it was. He has more than proven that since through the letters he has written and his attempts to get independent prosecutors in to handle the case.
Bynum must have known White, or at least he knew of his honesty and frankness, and it sounds to me as if he was warning Fleet not to interfere (with the truth?).
#8
TriciaAdministratorStaff Member
Tricia, Sep 5, 2006Watching You said:
This would explain the attempt to destroy the Whites.This gives me the impression that Fleet White may have been a stand up guy who wasn't afraid to speak up, and he told it like it was. He has more than proven that since through the letters he has written and his attempts to get independent prosecutors in to handle the case.
Bynum must have known White, or at least he knew of his honesty and frankness, and it sounds to me as if he was warning Fleet not to interfere (with the truth?).
The Whites are stand up people. Very honest. And Priscilla is like a size 2. I have always said she looks like Cindy Crawford.![]()
#9
Spade
Spade, Sep 5, 2006Door #3
The hypothesis that Bryan Morgan and Mike Bynum were able to “fix†an agreement with the Boulder DA’s office within 24 hours of JonBenet’s death is known as Door #3 by law enforcement officers. My personal opinion is that the Door #3 theory is true.
#10
RiverRatFFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef
RiverRat, Sep 5, 2006Thank you, Spade
Spade said:
That was my understanding but I did want the clarification from you. So what exactly was IT that Fleet was supposed to stay out of? I highly doubt that he was acting as their defense attorney so what else is there that he wasn't wanted for? Being a friend?! Or being a friend that knew too much by witnessing the Empty Wine Room?Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."
This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".
As far as the Petite Priscilla goes.....If she was included on the Stay Out of It list - I wonder if she was aware of it while she was saving the day with the Sister Socks find.
Oh and Tricia Love - I did read that Size 2 information somewhere, maybe I will google it up later.
#11
1000 SparksActive Member
1000 Sparks, Sep 5, 2006and if they get a REAL new prosecutor
Will Fleet White speak up with what he knows?
What is Fleet waiting for?
I guess I don't get it. Is EVERYONE deceitful in Boulder?
#12
SpadeMember
Spade, Sep 5, 2006Whites
It is my impression that both Fleet and Priscilla White were/are strong advocates of the Ramsey’s telling the truth about the tragic death of JonBenet. However, the legal advice that the Ramsey’s were receiving was cautioning them to “let the lawyers work this out.†Consequently, IMO Bynum was attempting to intimidate (Fleet White’s description) the White’s into silence.
#13
RiverRatFFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef
Last edited: May 10, 2009Indulge me one....
Fortunately, there is only one Intimidator and Bynum is not it!
RiverRat, Sep 5, 2006
#14
RiverRatFFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at L
RiverRat, Sep 5, 2006Spade - I knew that you would be returning any minute now and would do so in a way that gives us hope. After witnessing the recent return of the Coven, your timing could not have been better. You ready to do this one more time? I am - even if we have to go through this again in another five flipping years - they are not going to have it easy as long as I live.
#15
wombatMember
wombat, Sep 5, 2006Right after the patrolman arrived at 755 15th street, responding to the 911 call, the Ramsey's phone rang, and John answered it with "JonBenet's been kidnapped?" (Steve's book). Do we know who that was?
The only reason somebody would call at 6 am on Dec 26 is a huge emergency, or to return a call from someone who announced a huge emergency. This means to me that the Rs called somebody before they called 911, or right after, before the police arrived.
#16
Watching YouSuperior Bee Admin
Watching You, Sep 5, 20061000 Sparks said:
Honestly, Sparky, I think Fleet has so much integrity that nothing is going to make him say anything outside of a courtroom, and he's smart not to say anything. I don't know how much Fleet knows, but he doesn't appear to me to be the type to be intimidated by anyone.Will Fleet White speak up with what he knows?
What is Fleet waiting for?
I guess I don't get it. Is EVERYONE deceitful in Boulder?
I doubt EVERYONE in Boulder is deceitful outside of the known players in this case. Most of the general public is probably too stoned on weed to care. Maybe that's what happened to maim's brain.
#17
koldkaseFFJ Senior Member
koldkase, Sep 5, 2006John finds the body at 1:00ish pm.
By 4 pm, Bynum is making phone calls to bring in witnesses to intimidate for Haddon?
I thought Bynum's story was he was on the slopes that morning when he got the call--presumably that JonBenet had been "kidnapped." So he zipped back--guess Scotty beamed him in--hired Haddon, and was already into defense plans by 4 pm...only 3 hours after ANYONE was supposed to know JonBenet had been murdered?
You know, now I'm thinking about what John Ramsey wrote in his spin book. He said quite a few things, but I'm not seeing that Haddon was hired by 4 pm.
DOI: (p. 28: Speaking about Arndt at the Fernie's on the 26th, asking for the Ramseys to go to the BPD for questioning, the Ramseys refusing because they were too distraught, etc.)
So then Bynum takes over, tells the BPD no interviews at the police station, no condition to do anything...don't call us, we'll call you...ciao, baby. (I paraphrased, of course, but that's the gist.)I could tell that Arndt didn't like my answer and she intended to persist. Mike Bynum, a good friend who had arrived earlier with food in hand, overheard Arndt insisting that we go down to the police station. He immediately talked with our family pediatricion...[who] told Mike that...Patsy was in no condition to leave the house....
[snip]
[Bynum to John] Would you give me permission to make some choices for you and do what needs to be done?"
"Mike, I'd be grateful...."
Click to expand...
Then John says "Later in the afternoon of the 27th" he got a call from Access Graphics employee Gary Merriman telling John Gary had gotten "a call from someone inside the system who told him that I should get the best criminal defense attorney I could, as soon as possible." (p.28)
So...according to John, on the 27th, he NEEDED a lawyer, after receiving INSIDE INFORMATION from one of AG's own employees that John was being considered a suspect. Remember, AG was owned by LOCKHEED MARTIN...it's worth mentioning, I believe."Why?" I asked incredulously. "Do they consider me a suspect?"
"I don't know," he answered. "That's the only information I can give you."
I hung up slowly. Everything seemed scrambled again. Why in the world would the police in any fashion suspect me? ...I decided not to tell anyone about Gary's warning.
But John appears to be saying that on the 27th (the day after his daughter's body was found on the 26th, which was the same day that Bynum was hiring lawyers and intimidating witnesses), the day after the body was found, when Haddon had private investigators already out locking witnesses into their statements before the BPD could even get to them to question...John still didn't know he even HAD a lawyer?
So THEN John says the 27th passes with his devastation so great, he couldn't even talk to Patsy or anyone for long. He then moves to THE NEXT DAY...the 28th:
So then John goes into the story of Bynum being told by HOFSTROM, FROM THE DA'S OFFICE, that the police refused to release JonBenet's body (p. 31):When Mike Bynum returned the next day [Sat./28th], I had a private conversation with him. He told me that it would be prudent for me to retain an attorney. Gary Merriman's call earlier was still working in my mind, so I told Mike to do whatever he thought was right. But I still wasn't making sense of it all.
So let's see:While Mike did not inform us of this act of stupidity and brutality at the time, he started to take the actions necessary to protect us from the mounting police assault. Bynum quickly arranged for Bryan Morgan of Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman in Denver to represent me and for Patrick Burke to represent Patsy. By Saturday night [28th], we had been introduced to both of these men. I did not understand why two attorneys were necessary, but I was in no condition to discuss the matter.
Dec. 25/Wed.; Dec. 26/Thurs.} JonBenet is murdered either Wed. night between 10 pm and 12 midnight, or Thurs. morning between 12 am and 5 am [LE was called by 6 am].
Dec. 26/Thurs.} body found approx. 1 pm; John and Patsy go to the Fernies, where the BPD tries to interview them, but Bynum intervenes, with John's permission, according to John himself; Fleet White says this day he was called by Bynum at 4 pm into Bynum's office by 5 pm and told to back off, Haddon was in charge now.
Dec. 27/Fri.} John says that he is informed by Gary Merriman [human resources director of AG] that he needs a lawyer. He tells no one.
Dec. 28/Sat.} John says Mike Bynum RETURNS and tells John he needs an attorney; the Ramseys meet their lawyers; Patsy does home shopping with Roxy and her sisters, picking out a black knit dress from some sent over by a department store in Denver, imagining Jackie O as her inspiration, black veil and all; Patsy is fed by spoon during these "days after December 26."
Dec. 29/Sun.} JonBenet's memorial service held; Patsy's 40th birthday.
Dec. 30/Mon.} Visitation at funeral home for JonBenet, in Marietta, Ga.
Dec. 31/Tues.} JonBenet buried next to Beth in Marietta.
Jan. 1/Wed.} John and Patsy go on TV on CNN; John repeatedly states it was FLEET WHITE WHO HAD THE IDEA AND INSISTED THE RAMSEYS GO PUBLIC; Patsy mentions the dilapidated taxi that arrived to take them to the studio.
#18
SpadeMember
Spade, Sep 5, 2006#4 on the list
4. Haddon used his personal political chits to delay Gov. Roemer’s decision on the GJ/remove Hunter.
We all know that Hal Haddon is a force among Colorado Democrats. He and his wife Beverly were instrumental in the election of Roy Roemer State Treasurer and Governor. Consequently, it was very significant information when a friend in the State Capital told me that Haddon had lobbied Roemer in favor of Alex Hunter’s continuing control of the Ramsey case. It was/is significant for two reasons:
1. Possibly the fix was already in with Alex…so why change?
2. Absolutely John Ramsey was not the sexual abuser or killer of JonBenet. (If Haddon used a political chit (favor owed) for a child molester/murderer client, he would be finished as a political power broker).
Wombat- I don't know who called the Ramsey house that AM but the "Kidnapping Brunch" certainly disregarded the warning in the ransom note.
#19
heymomMember
heymom, Sep 5, 2006Spade said:
This whole thread makes me want to sick up...I mean, my heart knew what was going on, that people had been paid off, there was corruption involved, but FROM THE FIRST HOURS???? When the Ramseys were supposedly freaked out at all that had happened??? What was really happening was that they were using every single dollar and every bit of their power and influence to make sure they would never be charged with JonBenet's killing.4. Haddon used his personal political chits to delay Gov. Roemer’s decision on the GJ/remove Hunter.
We all know that Hal Haddon is a force among Colorado Democrats. He and his wife Beverly were instrumental in the election of Roy Roemer State Treasurer and Governor. Consequently, it was very significant information when a friend in the State Capital told me that Haddon had lobbied Roemer in favor of Alex Hunter’s continuing control of the Ramsey case. It was/is significant for two reasons:
1. Possibly the fix was already in with Alex…so why change?
2. Absolutely John Ramsey was not the sexual abuser or killer of JonBenet. (If Haddon used a political chit (favor owed) for a child molester/murderer client, he would be finished as a political power broker).
Wombat- I don't know who called the Ramsey house that AM but the "Kidnapping Brunch" certainly disregarded the warning in the ransom note.
This is SICKENING!!!!:burnedup:
#20