2009.03.12 Casey Anthony Motion Hearing

[lawlady84]

Again, just to put out that it is an assumption that the state missed evidence, as opposed to these being hairs shed normally by techs &/or JB and Lee themselves after the initial evidence gathering.

Until we know whose 17 hairs were found, and have control samples to exclude techs, all guesses, including Lee's and JB's are assumptions. Nothing more, nothing less.

To imply the State has already screwed up is premature based on the facts as known, versus JB's statements today.

I agree- and the car wasn't "cleared" by that point, they were continuously working on it. IIRC in the huge forensic docs that were released, they would send evidence to the FBI, FBI examines it- asks for something else, OCSO sends evidence to oak ridge, oak ridge asks for something else, OCSO goes back to the car, gets other samples, etc. Its a trial and error thing- you won't know what's important right away.

Plus, I'd imagine they were looking through tons of evidence and doing it piece by piece- not everyone is going to work on the car all at once. And JB said they went that day because it was the only day Dr. Lee was in town.

 

[lawlady84]

You can read about Lee's investigation in this doc beginning on page 3205.

He found a single hair in the trunk of the car. All other hairs (and fibers) were found on evidence that OCSO had already removed from the trunk and processed. During this investigation, Lee signed a crime scene contamination sheet.

I don't think Dr. Lee planted anything, or contaminated anything. My understanding was the defense filed motions to be allowed to see the car, so OCSO had to show them the car regardless of what stage of investigation they were at. I don't think it's a "screw up" at all, I think many people are going to go through the evidence many times until everything important is "found." Further, personally, I don't think hair found in a garbage bag full of garbage is very important- found in the car itself is important.

 

[Kateyes]

I listened to the hearing from my car while doing errands. I have only one comment - I am afraid we will see shades of the OJ trial.The only saving grace is the judge - Stan Strickland - who, IMO, will not tolerate the nonsense Jude Ito allowed to prevail in his courtroom. BTW - I lived in Orlando for 21 years,and just moved last June, about a month before this tragedy occurred. Judge Strickland is an upstanding man,with a great family, and I believe he will see to it that Casey gets a fair trial, which is so important so that the verdict doesn't get overturned on appeal. The more I watch the antics of Jose Baez the more I believe he is trying to make a show of impropriety, etc, where none exists. I truly believe the defense has begun their own three ring circus.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I agree- and the car wasn't "cleared" by that point, they were continuously working on it. IIRC in the huge forensic docs that were released, they would send evidence to the FBI, FBI examines it- asks for something else, OCSO sends evidence to oak ridge, oak ridge asks for something else, OCSO goes back to the car, gets other samples, etc. Its a trial and error thing- you won't know what's important right away.

Plus, I'd imagine they were looking through tons of evidence and doing it piece by piece- not everyone is going to work on the car all at once. And JB said they went that day because it was the only day Dr. Lee was in town.

I'm curious about the FBI and Oak Ridge asking OCSO for more items than OCSO had been sending them. Where did you see this?

 

[suspicious mind]

If lee found hairs in the car why is jose filing motions to have the state sanctioned for removing all the evidence? sounds like they left some behind just for them.

really, I don't think the jury is going to be too impressed with forensics anyway. They will most likely want to have proof of a ZFG and a "reasonable" excuse for not reporting Caylee missing. The smell, the non-reporting,the location of the body, the partying and the lack of a nanny are going to cook her goose, with or without forensics.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Further, personally, I don't think hair found in a garbage bag full of garbage is very important- found in the car itself is important.

You ain't thinkin' like a criminal defense team working on a murder case.

 

[angeleleven]

Greta 'On The Record' is going to discuss the court case on her show tonight.

 

[lawlady84]

Also, I think LKB could use some demeanor coaching. I think she's smart and she knew what she was talking about- and I know that she just rubs me the wrong way in the typical "defense attorneys seem to push too hard" way (but I know that is their job, to argue the unpopular points). But how loud and abrasive she was today is going to influence a jury- she could be making the BEST point, but if it seems like she's being aggressive a jury is going to discount it.

I think the SA comes off so well because they both spoke calmly and quietly, and only spoke when they had to. No ones impressed by grandstanding - the jury is composed of just regular folks usually not interested in law, and just doing their duty because they have to. Juries also usually respond more favorably to "everyday" witnesses, who seem to be like just one of them.

The bickering between JB and the CSI was classic- a jury is going to look at that, identify with the CSI thinking "he was just doing his job, leave him alone," and automatically discount JBs impeachment (attempt to discredit the witness). I hope by trial JB becomes a little less smug

 

[waylos]

I listened to the hearing from my car while doing errands. I have only one comment - I am afraid we will see shades of the OJ trial.The only saving grace is the judge - Stan Strickland - who, IMO, will not tolerate the nonsense Jude Ito allowed to prevail in his courtroom. BTW - I lived in Orlando for 21 years,and just moved last June, about a month before this tragedy occurred. Judge Strickland is an upstanding man,with a great family, and I believe he will see to it that Casey gets a fair trial, which is so important so that the verdict doesn't get overturned on appeal. The more I watch the antics of Jose Baez the more I believe he is trying to make a show of impropriety, etc, where none exists. I truly believe the defense has begun their own three ring circus.

*Bolded by me.
:aktion033: My thoughts exactly!

 

[lawlady84]

I'm curious about the FBI and Oak Ridge asking OCSO for more items than OCSO had been sending them. Where did you see this?

IIRC it had to do with the spare tire thing in the trunk. They sent a piece of carpet, and then sent part of a rim? And then there were letters asking for specific pieces of the carpet and they were flagged in pictures. I could be off, it could have been the FBI requesting new portions after Oak Ridge found decomp. But it would be in that doc dump

 

[lawlady84]

You ain't thinkin' like a criminal defense team working on a murder case.

LOL I was thinking as if I was KCs attorney

Say the garbage bag was found in TLs car, and OCSO found KCs hair in the garbage bag, but not anywhere else in the car. The defense would argue that it doesn't show that KC was ever in the car - since the garbage was somewhere else, KC could have been "anywhere" when her hair made its way into the garbage. So "nothing" connects her to the car. Even further, they could say - maybe someone got KCs hair on their clothes and it somehow made its way to the garbage bag - so KC was never even near the garbage nor the bag.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I agree- and the car wasn't "cleared" by that point, they were continuously working on it. IIRC in the huge forensic docs that were released, they would send evidence to the FBI, FBI examines it- asks for something else, OCSO sends evidence to oak ridge, oak ridge asks for something else, OCSO goes back to the car, gets other samples, etc. Its a trial and error thing- you won't know what's important right away.

Plus, I'd imagine they were looking through tons of evidence and doing it piece by piece- not everyone is going to work on the car all at once. And JB said they went that day because it was the only day Dr. Lee was in town.

I didn't count or anything, but I also recall from the docs that the garbage evidence being signed in an out of the evidence locker multiple times, including possibly more than once even on the same day.

I would think each of those instances would include signed contamination sheets, giving a starting point for obtaining hair samples from all techs, lab personnel, LE, etc.

We're thinking along the same lines here. To me, so far the statement 'Lee found 17 hairs' is not yet significantly meaningful, until there is proof that those hairs were on the evidence on July 16th, i.e. not shed throughout the normal course of the rest of the investigation up to, and including, the date that Lee examined the trunk and the evidence found within the trunk.

 

[Macushla]

You can read about Lee's investigation in this doc beginning on page 3205.

He found a single hair in the trunk of the car. All other hairs (and fibers) were found on evidence that OCSO had already removed from the trunk and processed. During this investigation, Lee signed a crime scene contamination sheet.

Ok, I just read the report. One hair was found, by Dr. Lee in the trunk - could have been missed, could have been from anyone poking their head into the trunk without being suited up. 3 hairs were found by Dr. Lee on various items referred to as garbage or trash - same scenario. All the other hairs were found after Dr. Lee left. Now, conduct a small experiment - open a newspaper and put it on the counter, check it over for hairs, remove any that you find. Next - and here it gets tricky Hot Dog, cause I have no idea if you are male or female, so bear with me - lean over the newspaper, shake your head from side to side, or brush your fingers through your hair. Rub your bare arms a couple of times. Now check the newspaper again - see any hair? If anyone suited up - especially those cute little caps, hair might have been caught as they put the cap on and then dislodged as they moved around. Hair might have been dislodged when their arms rubbed against their sleeves and dropped out.

My own assignment is to wade through the last doc dump to see if the results of testing all these particular hair samples were in there. I think your assignment is going to be eaiser than mine!

 

[passionflower]

Thanks to everyone! My computer is acting up.....slow and says I have low space.......or I would thnk everyone..........

 

[ThoughtElf]

You ain't thinkin' like a criminal defense team working on a murder case.

LMAO!!! Good point.

Especially if the origin of the bag of garbage is in question.

I'm going to shut up and give you that one with a grin.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Ok, I just read the report. One hair was found, by Dr. Lee in the trunk - could have been missed, could have been from anyone poking their head into the trunk without being suited up. 3 hairs were found by Dr. Lee on various items referred to as garbage or trash - same scenario. All the other hairs were found after Dr. Lee left. Now, conduct a small experiment - open a newspaper and put it on the counter, check it over for hairs, remove any that you find. Next - and here it gets tricky Hot Dog, cause I have no idea if you are male or female, so bear with me - lean over the newspaper, shake your head from side to side, or brush your fingers through your hair. Rub your bare arms a couple of times. Now check the newspaper again - see any hair? If anyone suited up - especially those cute little caps, hair might have been caught as they put the cap on and then dislodged as they moved around. Hair might have been dislodged when their arms rubbed against their sleeves and dropped out.

My own assignment is to wade through the last doc dump to see if the results of testing all these particular hair samples were in there. I think your assignment is going to be eaiser than mine!

Thanks sooo much for finding that info...was just looking for that part of the report....wheeew, you saved what's left of my sanity this evening.

 

[angeleleven]

I suppose if they are coming from Cindy that would explain why nothing seems to fit properly, Casey has gained a few pounds.
But that purple shell under the too small white sweater was awful,it looked faded and stretched out.

Also, LKB is not the type of woman that a FL jury will embrace.
She is bossy, loudmouthed and just plain unlikeable.

A caller on JVM Issues thought that a mother whom had lost their child would most likely be too depressed to eat and therefore lose weight....instead of gaining weight like Casey has. The psych on the program agreed with the caller and said Casey does not look depressed but more like a sociopath.

 

[Hot Dogs]

IIRC it had to do with the spare tire thing in the trunk. They sent a piece of carpet, and then sent part of a rim? And then there were letters asking for specific pieces of the carpet and they were flagged in pictures. I could be off, it could have been the FBI requesting new portions after Oak Ridge found decomp. But it would be in that doc dump

The specifics of what FBI/Oak Ridge asked for, and why, matter. It's because of the context of the discussion we are having now. What's being proposed is something like "investigators would have found stuff like those hairs anyway, because FBI and others were always asking for more stuff to look at. Plus, even OCSO kept going back to look for stuff like hairs anyway."

Do you think the FBI was eventually going to ask for the Sprite and Coke cans anyway, because they felt that OCSO probably didn't find everything on them that they could have?

 

[JustJax]

A caller on JVM Issues thought that a mother whom had lost their child would most likely be too depressed to eat and therefore lose weight....instead of gaining weight like Casey has. The psych on the program agreed with the caller and said Casey does not look depressed but more like a sociopath.

From the looks of her commesary order she is eating alot of tasty sweets and coloring....(last check she ordered colored pencils)

 

[La.Sandy]

A caller on JVM Issues thought that a mother whom had lost their child would most likely be too depressed to eat and therefore lose weight....instead of gaining weight like Casey has. The psych on the program agreed with the caller and said Casey does not look depressed but more like a sociopath.

That psychiatrist is actually from my hometown. I was shocked to see him on this program!